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Democracy is not the way for Pakistan!

Myth_buster_1

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Now A Lesson From China

Pakistan faces a national decline. It’s time we changed the system instead of perpetuating a failure. There is no escaping the truth: Our 61-year old political system has failed. Our British-style democracy is breeding instability and is unsuited to our circumstances. It has produced stagnant leadership generally not creative or responsive to the nation’s needs. There are two ways that lead to democracy: The British way and the Chinese way. With due respect to the Queen, there is no harm in finding another way apart from the Westminster way when the goal is the same: a representative government for the people. The European experience in democratic government has enriched humanity. But there are other models too. We need to develop one suited to us. A Pakistani model.


By AHMED QURAISHI

Tuesday, 27 May 2008.

Ahmed Quraishi-Pakistan/Middle East politics, Iraq war, lebanon war, India Pakistan relations


WENZHOU, China—Two years ago this month, I told President Musharraf on the plane returning from Shanghai to Islamabad that his ideas on strategic cooperation– during a summit meeting with Russia’s Putin and China’s Hu Jintao - were great, but that a Russian member of Putin’s delegation offered this retort, ‘In two years, Putin and Hu will be around. You can’t say the same about Musharraf. That’s the problem with Pakistan.’

Two years later, the irony is not lost on me. I visit China again and the events in Pakistan prove that Russian skepticism was real. Writing this column from Wenzhou, a small town in southeast China probably the size of Sialkot or Quetta, you can’t ignore how the world around us has made leaps forward while we have wasted precious time in political experimentations. We wanted to become a western democracy in a country where half the people are illiterate. The result is that Pakistan today is as stable as some of the tribal kingdoms of central Africa, and the people are busy in opposing the government instead of getting busy in creating wealth and enjoying life.

Pakistan faces a national decline and it is time we changed the system instead of perpetuating a failure. The Pakistanis have kept the flag high in the most difficult times but there is no escaping the truth: Our 61-year old political system has failed. Our British-style democracy is breeding instability and is unsuited to our circumstances. It has produced stagnant leadership generally not creative or responsive to the nation’s development. That we still managed to become a nuclear and a military power with a good economic potential is a Pakistani feat that needs to be toasted but can’t be substituted for sound planning.

In 1964, we made history when PIA became the first airliner from a non-communist country to land in China. Today, a Pakistani citizen will most probably have to fly through Dubai to reach China. Other Middle Eastern and Asian airlines make more business in Beijing than the one airline that led the way to all. The most ironic part is that we opened the doors to China for our American friends. Today, there is more business between China and U.S. than between Beijing and Islamabad. We are too focused on politics when the world is doing business and enjoying the good life.


There are two ways that lead to democracy: The British way and the Chinese way. The first one took centuries of cultural accumulation to reach perfection. The second took only decades, focused on the creation of an educated people and the economic rise. The result is that the Chinese people will probably have a better democracy in a couple of decades than anything we have in Pakistan.


Unless we can make the Pakistanis go through a European cultural transformation in a few years instead of centuries, the Chinese model is the most apt one that Pakistan needs to emulate.


The Chinese have created a population that uses all forms of communication and is culturally interactive with the rest of the world – essential for democratic evolution. In the small city of Yiwu in the southeast, there is an Internet company that has created a Chinese Web blog for discussions and debates with 38 million subscribers across China. The man running this show is just 28 years old. You would think that under a Communist party you would have tight controls and a bureaucracy that stifles creativity. At another place in the city, there is a wholesale market frequented by almost 1,000 Pakistani businessmen every month, in addition to merchants from the Middle East and elsewhere. The market is so huge that it would take you a year to check the entire place if you spent three minutes at each stall. The businessmen here might be good. But it’s the government, at the levels of city, province and Beijing that made all the difference.


Sometimes, sound planning according to your circumstances is more important than democracy to make a nation rise. Some of the best multimillion-dollar Chinese companies, normally owned by a single person, made their wealth thanks to the ‘China’ name brand that the government has fostered by changing the ‘look’ of the country. Most Chinese companies made their millions only after the opening up policy of Beijing in the past 20 years. The government pays the equivalent of PKR. 10 million as a grant to any company that manages to create a new Chinese product brand name. The competition between the city governments across the country is amazing. Everyone wants their city to have the cleanest streets and the most creative ways of marketing their products. The farmers in the countryside have created cooperative societies that implement novel ways of marketing produce and maximizing profit. In Zheijiang, for example, the countryside is littered with small but elegant houses built by farmers. The good times are rolling.

With due respect to the Queen, there is no harm in finding another way apart from the Westminster way when the goal is the same: a representative government for the people.


My host, Mr. Huang Kunming, member of the Provincial Committee of the Communist Party of China in Zheijiang, puts it this way: ‘Leadership has to be responsive to people’s needs.’ That’s more important than adhering to a book of law that uses a foreign language understood by an elite minority in a country. The European experience in democratic government has enriched humanity. But there are other models too. We need to develop one suited to us. A Pakistani model.

:pakistan:
 
And Mr Querish, what is this Pakistani model?

It is easy to criticise, but it is hard to imagine and implement.

There are two ways that lead to democracy: The British way and the Chinese way. The first one took centuries of cultural accumulation to reach perfection. The second took only decades, focused on the creation of an educated people and the economic rise. The result is that the Chinese people will probably have a better democracy in a couple of decades than anything we have in Pakistan.

China is not a democracy, Mr Querishi. It is time you get your facts right.

If Aunty had ####, then she would be Uncle.

Who knows that ''a couple of decades'' may hold!

Can't be soothsayers and bury the present for a hoary future of assumed to be full of milk and honey.

During Independence, Jinnah had great hopes and today?

So, no one can predict and no one should hope and plan for something that no one knows how it will develop.

Only those with high insecurity and fear are the ones who shelve today's reality for a beautiful unknown tonmorrow.

Quereshi saheb, delve is some sagacious verse from Omar Khayyam:

Ah, fill this Cup, what boots it to repeat,
Dead yesterday, unborn tomorrow
Why worry about them,
If today be sweet?

Quereshi is a mere rabble rouser!
 
democracy is a good thing, but it is not a model for all countries, every country has it special situation ,so i do not think copy west model is a good way
 
Democracy is a far better form of government than any other. Further, why do some people see "genuine democracy" as "Western Deomocracy?" What exactly is "Non-Western Democracy?"
 
Democracy is a far better form of government than any other. Further, why do some people see "genuine democracy" as "Western Deomocracy?" What exactly is "Non-Western Democracy?"



i am very suprised for your understanding ability, i divide the model of democracy, but you can distort my meaning that i divide democarcy as western democracy and non-western democracy , i do not know it is your fault on understanding or you said so on purpose
 
i am very suprised for your understanding ability, i divide the model of democracy, but you can distort my meaning that i divide democarcy as western democracy and non-western democracy , i do not know it is your fault on understanding or you said so on purpose

I'll concede that may be I have misunderstood you; in that case, can you please tell me the different models of democracy, as you would choose to divide them?

I hope I have got you right this time.
 
I think it is avery lame excuse. When have we ever allowed democracy to flourish in Pakistan. We are too impatient and want the first Government to gewt the formula right and establish an ideal state. With all due respects to the Poster, Chinese system is also not ideal. If it had been , half the world would have adopted it. It is simply a case of "the Grass being greener on the other side".
I willagree that at the inset Democracy has never been successful, but we need to give it time. For instance, Whty did Musharraf have to intervene in 99. If he had intervened to safeguard the country, then why did he not hand back the power to the representatives in 90 days. To say that there was no corruption during military rule would be a great fallacy. We need the process to flourish and a free judiciary, to safewguard the rights of the people. Dross like Zardari and Nawaz Sharif will eventually get cleared out and we will have the right people coming through the system.
WaSalam
Araz
 
perhaps many people think democracy is "divided of three rights", and indeed it is so in many western countries, however , do you think is it suitable for all countries. as an old saying "economic base decides superstructure",on one side ,with the development of economy and education ,democracy will must get progress, on the other hand, i will also quote the wisdom of Karl Marx,"superstructure will have a retroaction to economic base", so in different country, the model of achieving democracy is different, for example, market economy and openning policy is most important ,which gave chinese much progress on their life, and with the development of economy and education ,the awareness of democracy has enhanced in chinese people , but we chinese still have our tradition, we have a traditional culture of the Confucianists, and we chinese never think we should copy the western model of democracy, but do you say that chinese people dislike democracy? and in china ,we have our people's confress, state council, courts, but they are not a model of "divided of three rights", that's all.
 
Democracy is not ideal.

It has warts.

But it allow citizens to decide their own fate.

China is NOT a democracy. It is a TOTALITARIAN Regime, where there is no way the common citizen can exercise his choice to indicate agreement or disagreement.

Because Musharraf allowed democracy, it was possible to show displeasure, rightly or wrongly, of the policies of President Musharraf, and so his supporters lost hands down. It must be remembered that before that it was a military dictatorship and it then converted to democracy and now totally a democracy. In China, such a thing can NEVER happen and the people will languish under the regime forever.

So don't hector us with Karl Marx and Chinese democracy. China has NEVER had and will NEVER have Democracy.

Why?

Because the Chinese mind is programmed to OBEY. It is not that the Communists brought this Mindset, it is older than that. It is called LEGALISM.

Legalism (Chinese philosophy)

In Chinese history, Legalism (Fǎjiā; Wade-Giles: Fa-chia; literally "School of law") was one of the four main philosophic schools during the Spring and Autumn Period and the Warring States Period (the other three being Confucianism, Daoism and Mohism). This period (from 770 to 221 BC) was an era of great cultural and intellectual ferment in China, and gave rise to many important schools of thought. In China under the political leadership of Li Si, his form of Legalism became a totalitarian ideology in China, Li Si's Legalism one of the earliest known totalitarian ideologies.

Legalism was a pragmatic political philosophy, with maxims like "when the epoch changed, legalism is the act of following all laws", and its essential principle is one of jurisprudence. "Legalism" here can bear the meaning of "political philosophy that upholds the rule of law", and is thus distinguished from the word's Western sense. The school's most famous proponent and contributor Han Fei believed that a ruler should govern his or her subjects by the following trinity:

1. Fa ( fǎ; literally "law or principle"): The law code must be clearly written and made public. All people under the ruler were equal before the law. Laws should reward those who obey them and punish accordingly those who dare to break them. Thus it is guaranteed that actions taken are systematically predictable. In addition, the system of law ran the state, not the ruler. If the law is successfully enforced, even a weak ruler will be strong.

2. Shu ( shù; literally "method, tactic or art"): Special tactics and "secrets" are to be employed by the ruler to make sure others don't take over control of the state. Especially important is that no one can fathom the ruler's motivations, and thus no one can know which behaviour might help them getting ahead; except for following the 法 or laws.

3. Shi ( shì; literally "legitimacy, power or charisma"): It is the position of the ruler, not the ruler himself or herself, that holds the power. Therefore, analysis of the trends, the context, and the facts are essential for a real ruler.


Legalism was first created by Shang Yang as a realist reform oriented philosophy to turn the state of Qin from a backward state to a powerful state that would eventually conquer the other six states and create China. Shang Yang's law theories advocate the belief that all people are fundamentally equal and that stringent laws and harsh punishments are required to keep them in order. Shang Yang became prime minister of the Qin under the rule of Duke Xiao of Qin and gradually began transforming the state into a vigorously regulated machine, the sole purpose of which was the elimination of all rivals. Shang Yang swept away the aristocracy and implemented a meritocracy – only those who achieved could reach high places and birth privilege was reserved exclusively for the ruler of the state. Previously the army had been controlled by nobles and constituted of feudal levies. Now generals could come from any part of society, provided they had sufficient skill. In addition, troops were highly trained and disciplined. From then on, Qin was taking its shape to become the most powerful state in China before it eventually brought all of the six other states together (Qi, Chu, Han, Yan, Zhao, and Wei) under the First Emperor (Qin Shi Huangdi, literally the First Emperor - prior to ascending to the imperial throne he was known as Qin Ying Zheng).
 
this is a monumental cop out. democracy only works when it is allowed to continue for long periods of time. the problem in pakistan is that as soon that there is sign of trouble people in the GHQ think that it is time to intervene. not that i am not blaming our political parties but democracy is an evolutionary process. you dont have to be educated to understand your rights if democracy would be alowed to continue those illiterate people would find out what there rights are.
again what a humangous cop out
 
Democracy is not ideal.

It has warts.

But it allow citizens to decide their own fate.

China is NOT a democracy. It is a TOTALITARIAN Regime, where there is no way the common citizen can exercise his choice to indicate agreement or disagreement.

Because Musharraf allowed democracy, it was possible to show displeasure, rightly or wrongly, of the policies of President Musharraf, and so his supporters lost hands down. It must be remembered that before that it was a military dictatorship and it then converted to democracy and now totally a democracy. In China, such a thing can NEVER happen and the people will languish under the regime forever.

So don't hector us with Karl Marx and Chinese democracy. China has NEVER had and will NEVER have Democracy.

Why?

Because the Chinese mind is programmed to OBEY. It is not that the Communists brought this Mindset, it is older than that. It is called LEGALISM.


whether you has come to china , if not, please shut up your mouth. you have the right to say ,but you have no right to foul any country.
from this forum, i can see friendly pakistan people, and i still can see your india who is full of bias. i do not know that reflects your jealous or your evil purpose to china.

however ,i can make a conclusion that india is the most democratic and strongest country in the world, but i have to added a sentence, that is only on india's mouth!:bounce::bounce::bounce:
 
Democracy is not ideal.

It has warts.
But it allow citizens to decide their own fate.

:) what about the situation where people are forced to vote at gun point, besides paying for casting their votes.

Is it democracy ?????
 
perhaps many people think democracy is "divided of three rights", and indeed it is so in many western countries, however , do you think is it suitable for all countries. .

Yes it ..Truth is universal and is applicable at any place any time ..
if individual perceptions can taken as the basis of human behaviour then society and human existence will collapse .

hence democracy is a universal concept , based on human freedom .. it is applicable every where , in every society .

as an old saying "economic base decides superstructure",on one side ,with the development of economy and education ,democracy will must get progress, on the other hand, i will also quote the wisdom of Karl Marx,"superstructure will have a retroaction to economic base",

Economy is useless to decide superstructure if individual uses his intellect . Karl Marx and his ideology is a big failure ..

so in different country, the model of achieving democracy is different, for example, market economy and openning policy is most important ,which gave chinese much progress on their life, and with the development of economy and education ,the awareness of democracy has enhanced in chinese people , but we chinese still have our tradition, we have a traditional culture of the Confucianists, and we chinese never think we should copy the western model of democracy,

democracy has nothing to do with social and religious traditions . its about , an individuals right to choose , where does the tradition comes in between ??

but do you say that chinese people dislike democracy? and in china ,we have our people's confress, state council, courts, but they are not a model of "divided of three rights", that's all

No one knows wether they like or dislike democracy .. they never got a chance to express .. give them a chance and choose and you will find the answer .

So called Peopl's conference , state council and courts are power of one party ,there is option to choose and decide ..
 
:) what about the situation where people are forced to vote at gun point, besides paying for casting their votes.

Is it democracy ?????

you are talking about a crime and not democracy ..
but make sure that you provide a conclusive proof for the allegation because usually loosers have this excuse
 
Economy is useless to decide superstructure if individual uses his intellect

i have to say how stupid and foolish you are! do you think you will want democracy more than food, water, and house, if you in Iraq which is occupied by us military, do you think it is the democracy which you wanted? very good, now i think you can go to iraq to save all iraq people and you can go to afric, you should tell african how important the democracy is when they are hungry.
 
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