Democracy is a failed experiment

[amalakas]

Ah...That bit of stupidity is back.


Fine...Then explain how is it that once a country became entirely communist, that country remained -- wealth wise -- inferior to capitalist neighbors. Not only that, we had communist blocs where they aided and traded with each other. That mean the Soviet Empire should not have collapsed and the Chinese would not have reformed. The Internet would have been a communist invention. And the rest of the world would have so jealous that everyone would be a communist.

because a country needs resources other countries -not communist- have, metals, technology, ore, whatever... you cannot trade if you have no money... hence what i said about communism only working in a pool of similar minded sociaties..

 

[gambit]

because a country needs resources other countries -not communist- have, metals, technology, ore, whatever... you cannot trade if you have no money... hence what i said about communism only working in a pool of similar minded sociaties..

But Russia and China, the two major communist powers at that time, were not povertous in terms of natural resources.

Here is the essence of communism: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

If I cut ten cords of wood and you cut only five, do you feel that it is right for you to have access to the fruits of my labor? It does not matter the method of access, be it you ask for a share or instructions from God to me to give you a share, do you feel that just because you have less, you should have a right to someone else's labor?

So even if communist countries have less natural resources than other countries, the fact that their governments forced everyone to live only within their physical needs mean that comparing wealth to other countries should be irrelevant. As long as the people is happy that no one has a bigger apartment than he lives in, have only a bicycle, eat only the cheapest cuts of meat once a week, and daily extol the virtues of communism, we should be looking at "Worker's Paradise" everywhere.

Did I just describe North Korea?

 

[Twain Shakespeare]

Not sure about communism, but I do think capitalists should be killed frequently to keep them honest and spread the wealth

 

[gambit]

Not sure about communism, but I do think capitalists should be killed frequently to keep them honest and spread the wealth

But why 'frequently'? This make no sense. If you kill enough 'landowners' and 'businessmen' in as short a time as possible, there would be no capitalists anyway, so what is the use of 'frequently'? But such mass killings did happened, so why did communist countries collapsed?

 

[amalakas]

But Russia and China, the two major communist powers at that time, were not povertous in terms of natural resources.

Here is the essence of communism: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

If I cut ten cords of wood and you cut only five, do you feel that it is right for you to have access to the fruits of my labor? It does not matter the method of access, be it you ask for a share or instructions from God to me to give you a share, do you feel that just because you have less, you should have a right to someone else's labor?

So even if communist countries have less natural resources than other countries, the fact that their governments forced everyone to live only within their physical needs mean that comparing wealth to other countries should be irrelevant. As long as the people is happy that no one has a bigger apartment than he lives in, have only a bicycle, eat only the cheapest cuts of meat once a week, and daily extol the virtues of communism, we should be looking at "Worker's Paradise" everywhere.

Did I just describe North Korea?

it doesn't work that way because you take a very simplistic view of the world just to promote your point.
the theory of communism is about equal opportunities. The fruits of everyone's labour are balanced out over time. And if i have access to enough goods then I am fine.

taking the average joe as an example, one has the right to be employed and be useful to the society, right to education, to better ones self, and access to health care.

I don't see why the above have to be subject to extreme competition, classism and division.

Capitalism, or quite simply the fact that your local super market chain needs to maintain lettuce at a competitive price that makes it throw out millions of tonnes of lettuce every month, enough to feed most starving african nations. Your idea of capitalism dictates that 12 year olds in china should work for a buck to make your Nikes so you only have to pay for them the acceptable $80 per pair or whatever, if they were actually been made in the US you'd probably couldn't afford them. that's how it is you say? well the only problem is that the world is running out of 3rd world countries to do that for you .. so the inevitable point where you won't be able to afford things just like the guy you see on TV in some 3rd world place is nearer than you think.

what is this world economic crisis you think? some guy screwing up some money transfer?
it is actually an expression of hyper capitalism, where money is demanded due where money does not exist.. not in monetary sense, not in material goods not in anything.

I tell you again, if there are only ten of us living in a village, and we all have 1 coin each, we cannot possibly expect to make more than 1 coin per year or if we have plans to be rich, 10 coins a year... and then noone will have any left.
well capitalism assumes you'll be making 10 coins a year ..every year.. .even if those 10 coins DO NOT EXIST! ... hence debt.. hence .. crisis...hence .. capitalism doesn't work.


does communism work ? i don't know, but in theory it isn't as crap as capitalism...

 

[gambit]

the theory of communism is about equal opportunities.

So is democracy and capitalism.

The fruits of everyone's labour are balanced out over time.

Because of what? And how?

And if i have access to enough goods then I am fine.

And if you do not, is there a cause to blame? And if there is, what is the remedy?

taking the average joe as an example, one has the right to be employed and be useful to the society, right to education, to better ones self, and access to health care.

Fair enough...

I don't see why the above have to be subject to extreme competition, classism and division.

Competition is natural. The moment we compete, classes and divisions naturally develop. This is human nature. Communism attempts to circumvent this via legal fiats and proven spectacularly failures.

Capitalism, or quite simply the fact that your local super market chain needs to maintain lettuce at a competitive price that makes it throw out millions of tonnes of lettuce every month, enough to feed most starving african nations. Your idea of capitalism dictates that 12 year olds in china should work for a buck to make your Nikes so you only have to pay for them the acceptable $80 per pair or whatever, if they were actually been made in the US you'd probably couldn't afford them. that's how it is you say? well the only problem is that the world is running out of 3rd world countries to do that for you .. so the inevitable point where you won't be able to afford things just like the guy you see on TV in some 3rd world place is nearer than you think.

No one forced those countries to participate in the capitalist adventures. If they refused, as in we do not see the 'Made In North Korea' label at the local stores, capitalists have no choice but to find someone else.

what is this world economic crisis you think? some guy screwing up some money transfer?
it is actually an expression of hyper capitalism, where money is demanded due where money does not exist.. not in monetary sense, not in material goods not in anything.

I tell you again, if there are only ten of us living in a village, and we all have 1 coin each, we cannot possibly expect to make more than 1 coin per year or if we have plans to be rich, 10 coins a year... and then noone will have any left.
well capitalism assumes you'll be making 10 coins a year ..every year.. .even if those 10 coins DO NOT EXIST! ... hence debt.. hence .. crisis...hence .. capitalism doesn't work.


does communism work ? i don't know, but in theory it isn't as crap as capitalism...

It looks to me like you do not have the understanding of capitalism as you believe.

 

[below_freezing]

it doesn't work that way because you take a very simplistic view of the world just to promote your point.
the theory of communism is about equal opportunities. The fruits of everyone's labour are balanced out over time. And if i have access to enough goods then I am fine.

taking the average joe as an example, one has the right to be employed and be useful to the society, right to education, to better ones self, and access to health care.

I don't see why the above have to be subject to extreme competition, classism and division.

Capitalism, or quite simply the fact that your local super market chain needs to maintain lettuce at a competitive price that makes it throw out millions of tonnes of lettuce every month, enough to feed most starving african nations. Your idea of capitalism dictates that 12 year olds in china should work for a buck to make your Nikes so you only have to pay for them the acceptable $80 per pair or whatever, if they were actually been made in the US you'd probably couldn't afford them. that's how it is you say? well the only problem is that the world is running out of 3rd world countries to do that for you .. so the inevitable point where you won't be able to afford things just like the guy you see on TV in some 3rd world place is nearer than you think.

what is this world economic crisis you think? some guy screwing up some money transfer?
it is actually an expression of hyper capitalism, where money is demanded due where money does not exist.. not in monetary sense, not in material goods not in anything.

I tell you again, if there are only ten of us living in a village, and we all have 1 coin each, we cannot possibly expect to make more than 1 coin per year or if we have plans to be rich, 10 coins a year... and then noone will have any left.
well capitalism assumes you'll be making 10 coins a year ..every year.. .even if those 10 coins DO NOT EXIST! ... hence debt.. hence .. crisis...hence .. capitalism doesn't work.


does communism work ? i don't know, but in theory it isn't as crap as capitalism...

there's not really child labor in China of normal children. the legal working age is 16, anything below is severely punished with a long prison term for the owner and closing of the company that does it. the latest child labor case was in 2008, and involved KIDNAPPED children.

 

[jbond197]

They didnt loot india they were civilising india lol

Troll mentality.. You do not miss a chance to take a dig at India.. BTW, they ruled current Pakistan as well.. what are your thoughts were they able to civilize you? Doesn't seem to be the case for you since you decided to follow them to their country to get civilized... But seems like their tricks are not working any more as they clearly fail to civilize in your case..

 

[huzihaidao12]

If you actually READ the article, the 'rare' is not the protests but the CONCESSION that is rare...

The march of China's new middle class - Telegraph

Please do yourself a favor and remove foot from mouth. Looks terribly embarrassing.

---------- Post added at 02:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------


That does not mean the Indians are here because of political oppression like how East Berliners who became 'illegal immigrants' because of communist oppression. I work with a lot of Indian and Chinese engineers. We know the differences despite attempts by intellectually dishonest people like you to blur the two situations.

---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 PM ----------


There are not that many Americans here. The few that are simply cannot abuse the system the way the Chinese have.

My previous post, you do not even see?

---------- Post added at 08:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 AM ----------

So what are the positives of communism that cannot exist in democratic systems?

Who told you, communism that cannot exist in democratic systems? You too lack of understanding of China.

 

[huzihaidao12]

gamit, capitalism has been for hundreds of years, it has time to improve, early capitalism, not democracy, remember this, but survived long in the history of communism? And I do not know other countries, but if you want to comment on China, at least one really understand the history of communism in China. You make a comment on some smoke, then your comment is certainly not objective.

 

[Twain Shakespeare]

It is quite surprising that one is arguing about communism being superior to democracy even in 2010s!

I guess fall of USSR was not enough for some people.

The CCCP was no more Marxist than the Catholic Church is Christian, or than the Tea Pary is Jeffersonian.

 

[below_freezing]

The CCCP was no more Marxist than the Catholic Church is Christian, or than the Tea Pary is Jeffersonian.

The CCCP fell due to incompetence after Kruschev and CIA spies.

 

[Tractor]

Maybe CCCP collapsed due to the influence of George Orwell's Animal Farm.

 

[lem34]

The argument implied that communism decreases poverty and capitalism increases poverty. Can you provide something to support that in spite of the fact that communist countries were consistently poorer than capitalist ones?

America and china are your evidence. But if you are blind what can i say

---------- Post added at 08:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 AM ----------

Troll mentality.. You do not miss a chance to take a dig at India.. BTW, they ruled current Pakistan as well.. what are your thoughts were they able to civilize you? Doesn't seem to be the case for you since you decided to follow them to their country to get civilized... But seems like their tricks are not working any more as they clearly fail to civilize in your case..

Give me a break i wasnt picking on india i was being sarcastic. The comment was against the colonial power not india but you are blinded by your hatred and expectation of adverse comment from pakistanis

 

[gambit]

America and china are your evidence. But if you are blind what can i say

China was poor DURING the communist years. Raising people out of poverty? By whose standards? Americans on welfare live better than most of the world's population. So who is really blind now?