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Democracy is a failed experiment

:lol: Good joke, comradeski. Too bad the spectacular and ignoble collapse of this 'democratic' empire made YOU into the greater joke for saying that. Dang, Chinese brainwashing is even better than I suspected.

nations collapse for many reasons. the Soviets were simply worse at lying than the Americans.
 
for those who hate democracy,what alternative you suggest?
You are not going to get any real answer with any reasonable details. The standard tactic of the intellectual coward is to point out the flaws, institutional and otherwise, of functional democracies and nothing more. For example, the coward love to call US out for having only two political parties: Democrat and Republican, as 'proof' that democracy does not work. Never mind the fact that basic Political Science classes will point out that under the standard 'first past the post' electoral system, only two parties can exist under the natural selection process created by the people.

First-past-the-post voting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
First-past-the-post (abbreviated FPTP or FPP) voting refers to an election won by the candidate(s) with the most votes. The winning candidate does not necessarily receive an absolute majority of all votes cast.
FPTP is the simplest, probably oldest, and fairest method of settling political disputes. The method is employed by all groups regardless of size and everyone interested enough to risk his vote consented to accept the winner with highest count from the votes gathered. One man one vote. Impossible to 'cheat'. It is only when we insert interceptory or intercessory mechanisms such as legal voting age, citizenship, property ownership, or the American style 'Electoral College', is when the possibility and odds of cheating increases. Some of these interceptory or intercessory mechanisms are legitimate, such as a legal age and citizenship, some we consider to be highly discriminatory, such as proof of property ownership, usually land, which remove the majority of the people from having their voices heard in government.

Europeans evolved FPTP into 'Proportional Representation'...

Proportional representation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Proportional representation (PR) is a generic term describing the voting systems that try to reproduce into a representative body the proportions of the different parts of the constituents - generally in an assembly election, for which such systems were devised. They are meant to solve the inequalities of party representation that happen with plurality voting systems, especially when there are more than two driving forces or when districts are of different sizes. The proportionality can be altered in many ways. Reducing it combats fragmentation, a well-known tendency of PR systems, and it is attained by the choice of a method for allocating seats, a threshold, or limiting the number of seats at stake (small constituencies, small assemblies).
Many believe PR is 'fairer' than FPTP in that much greater dissenting political voices are allowed to be heard at the legislative level of government, but this system has its own flaws and one of major flaws is the threshold of believers to a political view before we allow a 'party' into government. Too high a threshold and we have too few political parties in government. Too low a threshold and we have too many parties in government, which often lead to paralysis in generating laws for the country. To be 'fairer' is to risk governmental gridlocks.

The above two methods, and there are many others, proved beyond any reasonable doubt that despite the flaws of democracies and democratic methods, people want the right to change these methods, or eliminate them altogether, if they feel a method no longer works for them. Will the US some day have PR? It is possible. Will the US some day eliminate the interceptory method of 'Electoral College'? Many Americans feels that day is here.

Critics of democracy in forums like this one are generally ignorant of the details on how democratic mechanisms works and how many exists. They fail to realize that the variability of democratic methods outnumber dictatorial methods, which is one: My way or death for you. So when they criticize, they do not do it out of any knowledge of democratic methods employed in their countries, but they do it because basically they are whining babies who are pissed off their parties did not get what they want. Next step for them is the gun for you and that is how brutal dictatorships come to be.

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nations collapse for many reasons. the Soviets were simply worse at lying than the Americans.
Your China will be the next spectacular implosion. Your leaders are better than anyone at lying to a nation as large in numbers as China.
 
Your China will be the next spectacular implosion. Your leaders are better than anyone at lying to a nation as large in numbers as China.

Nope, even if China does break up like the Soviet Union, it will be after the US shatters like glass.
 
Nope, even if China does break up like the Soviet Union, it will be after the US shatters like glass.
We are not the country with the EIGHTY THOUSANDS ANNUAL VIOLENT PROTESTS throughout the land.
 
Governance in China

Synthesis (in Chinese) | Table of Contents (in Chinese) | How to Order

Governance is the next issue to tackle on the development path of the People’s Republic of China. Further adapting institutions and the functioning of the state to an increasingly market-oriented economy is crucial to maintain economic dynamism. Governance reform is also fundamental to address emerging strains related to rising inequalities and environmental deterioration. This report goes beyond the general statement that governance matters. It shows how, in practice, governance impacts on public action by looking at different policy sectors, such as agriculture, higher education, labour market and social protection, foreign investment, environment protection, collection of statistics, protection of intellectual property rights, banking and tax collection. The study also takes stock of the progress made in public management and public finance and explores policy options for the future. Further redefining the role of the state, modernising public management, adjusting the relations between levels of government and consolidating the institutional framework for market forces are four directions in which reform efforts should be pursued.


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Synthesis

Governance is recognised as critical to economic development and the achievement of a society’s objectives. OECD member countries target a development path built on three pillars: good governance, economic growth and social cohesion. Good governance is thus seen as a crucial element to address challenges and fault lines facing a nation and to ensure sustainable development. China is now undergoing a crucial transformation in its system of governance, adapting institutions and the functioning of the state to an increasingly market-oriented economy. This transformation is also being spurred by key strains that have emerged related to fiscal and financial imbalances, rising inequalities and environmental deterioration. In 2003, the OECD initiated a project to share with China the expertise of its member countries on governance issues. The China Governance Project was also the opportunity to better understand the challenges faced by China and to organise policy dialogues on these issues. This project was undertaken in the framework of the programme of co-operation between the OECD and China, initiated in 1996. It thus benefited from a relationship of mutual trust established between the OECD Secretariat and Chinese ministries and bodies in many areas.


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Table of Contents

Part I - Public Sector Management

Chapter 1. Civil Service Reform in China.

The Chinese Government has undertaken extensive reforms to its civil service system over the past 10 years. These have encompassed recruitment and selection, training, appraisal, rewards and punishments, compensation, discipline and other areas. This chapter reviews each of these elements. The chapter argues that the capacity of the civil service has improved during the past 10 years. But the capacity improvements may be explained by reasons other than civil service reform, such as by improvements in China’s system of education. The rapid expansion of higher education since 1980 has produced a large population that is eligible for civil service employment.

Chapter 2. The Reform of Public Service Units: Challenges and Perspectives .

China’s large and diverse sector of “public service units” (PSUs – shiye danwei) is a galaxy of public service providers operating alongside core government and separate from other state-owned or state-sponsored organisations such as state-owned enterprises (SOEs), state-owned financial institutions and state-sponsored “social organisations”. Following on from the reform of SOEs and core government, the reform of PSUs represents the third major step of reforms that aim at transforming the organisational structure of the public sector into one that assists the socialist market economy.

Chapter 3. Fighting Corruption in China

Corruption has been openly recognised as an emerging challenge to China’s economic and social reform. In 2002, then President Jiang Zemin defined “anti-corruption mechanisms” as a “major political task for the Party”. Incumbent President Hu Jintao has declared the fight against corruption a priority on the political agenda of his government, as corruption threatens both the economic development and the political and social stability of the People’s Republic of China (PRC). This chapter tracks the development of corruption, analyses the causes for its perceived or real expansion, as well as reforms and policies that the Chinese authorities have adopted in response.

Chapter 4. E-government in China

E-government refers to the use of information and communication technologies, and particularly the Internet, as a tool to achieve better government. In China, the state of e-government reflects the transitional nature of contemporary Chinese society toward a “socialist market economy”. The country’s information society is inchoate with persisting digital divides, i.e. diffusion and access to information and communication technologies (ICT) are uneven and although Internet penetration has grown rapidly in wealthy urban areas, it remains fairly low in per capita terms.

Chapter 5. Institutional Arrangements for the Production of Statistics

Chinese statistics have come a long way from a pure reporting system in a centrally planned economy to a system that increasingly relies on surveys and modern statistical techniques to service users, be they government or the public at large. Nonetheless, many challenges remain. In recent years, the quality of Chinese economic statistics, in particular the growth rate of real GDP and other data has been repeatedly questioned by several Chinese and western authors. Questions about data quality inevitably lead to questions about the institutional organisation of China’s statistical authority and the methods of statistical data compilation in China.

Part II - Public Finance

Chapter 6. Governance in Taxation in China

With its transition to a market-oriented economy, China has gone through major tax reforms in the last two decades. Significant measures to improve governance in taxation were implemented, including unifying tax laws, equalizing tax burdens, simplifying the tax system, rationalizing the decentralized system and standardizing revenue allocation methods between the central and local governments. However, more needs to be done to improve China’s tax system so that transparency, stability and the rule of law become the guiding principles.

Chapter 7. Public Sector Budgeting Issues in China

China has undertaken extensive reforms to its budgeting system over the past 10 years. These have encompassed the entire budgeting cycle: formulation, approval, implementation and audit. This chapter reviews each of these elements. China has made crucial progress in this field. The early challenge was fundamentally to create the institutional infrastructure for a modern budget process where none had previously existed. In the planned economy, all resource allocation decisions were made in the plan with the budget serving essentially as a secondary accounting device.

Chapter 8. China’s Public Expenditure Policies

China’s evolution from a centrally planned to a market-based economy has led to major transformations of its public expenditure policies. Significant progress has been made in raising spending on infrastructure to a level more in line with China’s development needs, in improving mechanisms for expenditure budgeting and planning, notably by bringing some extra-budgetary accounts into the main budget. Nevertheless, significant problems remain.

Part III - Institutional Framework for Market Forces

Chapter 9. Regulatory Management and Reform in China

China’s potential benefits from regulatory reform are significant, as is the potential downside if a number of serious regulatory problems are not addressed. This chapter reviews China’s recent efforts to improve regulatory capacities and to build a regulatory environment on the basis of the rule of law.

Chapter 10. Reforming State Asset Management and Improving Corporate: Governance: The Two Challenges of Chinese Enterprise Reform

Enterprise reform in China is facing two main but interwoven challenges: on the one hand, to establish the state as a full or part-owner of enterprises rather than as a manager, and on the other hand, to improve corporate governance in general, and of listed companies in particular.

Chapter 11. Labour Protection: Challenges Facing Labour Offices and Social Insurance

One of the key institutional outcomes of China’s economic reforms has been to create a new role for employers that is separate from the state and allows enterprises to concentrate on their business. To protect workers, the government has set up public institutions for many social and administrative functions that until recently pertained to work units (danwei) or did not exist. This chapter focuses on three such functions for which the 1994 Labour Law makes the government responsible: employment services, labour inspection and social insurance.

Chapter 12. Competition Law and Policy in China

This chapter focuses on two issues, namely: i) the enactment of a general competition law that would provide a coherent basis for combating localism and other “monopolistic” conduct by enterprises and local governments; and ii) the adoption of a “national competition policy” calling upon all parts and levels of government to incorporate competition policy into all aspects of proposed and existing laws and policies that affect market conduct. These two issues were identified in the 2002 OECD study China in the World Economy: The Domestic Policy Challenges and will here be discussed from a governance perspective.

Chapter 13. Governance of Banks in China

The conceptual framework for governance in banking reflects the special role of banks in a market economy. In order for the bank to act as a profit-oriented corporation, it must have genuine owners and the corporate governance regime should enable the owners to hold the management accountable for achieving a competitive return at acceptable risk. At the same time, banks have fiduciary obligations to depositors and also perform many “public good” functions such as acting as repository of savings, supplying currency and allocating resources in the real economy. Therefore, banks operate in a regulated environment.

Chapter 14. Intellectual Property Rights in China: Governance Challenges and Prospects

Today, top leaders in the Chinese Government have become aware of the importance for China to build a sound intellectual property rights (IPR) system. While accession to the WTO has opened new opportunities for the Chinese economy, it has also exposed Chinese firms to greater international competition under the WTO rules, including Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS). This means that the government and Chinese industry need to learn as quickly as possible how to play by the new “rules of the game”. Indeed, Chinese leaders are realising that the protection of intellectual rights is crucial not only as a condition for foreign investment and technology transfer, but also for promoting Chinese innovation, which will determine China’s future competitiveness in the global knowledge economy. China has thus, over the past two decades, quickly developed a set of IPR laws and regulations that are today basically in conformity with international practice and standards. The main challenge for the coming years is to improve upon the governance of the legislative, administrative and enforcement systems in order to make the existing laws more effective in stimulating innovation and protecting IPR.

Chapter 15. The Governance Challenges of Foreign Investment Policy in China

Foreign investment has played a major part in economic development and economic growth in China. When economic reforms commenced in the late 1970s, there was no framework for foreign investment. Thus, existing government structures were adapted and legislation created anew in the form of separate legislative enactments for each form of foreign-invested enterprise (FIE). China has subsequently received large quantities of foreign direct investment (FDI) in the past quarter of a century, rising to nearly USD 55 billion in 2004.

Chapter 16. Institutional Framework for Effective Agricultural Policy: Current Issues and Future Challenges

Since reforms began in 1978, China’s agricultural sector has been transformed from a centralized system of commune-based farming into a household-based system. China’s leaders are de-emphasizing formal planning and are increasingly accepting allocation by markets. However, agriculture remains a sensitive area and is subject to intervention. This chapter describes the main institutions dealing with agricultural policies, with some suggestions for next steps in the reform process.

Part IV - Ensuring Sustainable Development

Chapter 17. Environment and Governance in China

China has made remarkable progress in sustaining high economic growth rates, raising incomes and lengthening life expectancy. However, the pattern of economic growth, rapid industrialization and urbanization has not been environmentally sustainable. These processes have generated high pressures on the environment, including surface and ground waters, air in urban areas, land and natural resources. This in turn has adversely affected human health and the productivity of natural resources. If the state of the environment continues to deteriorate, these problems will intensify and the potential for maintaining economic growth may be undermined.

Chapter 18. Higher Education – Finance and Quality

In its quest to become a major player in the global market, China has made impressive strides in many domains, not least in the area of higher education. The Chinese Government recognizes the key role of education in realizing its goals in other domains, and the Ninth Five-Year Plan (1996-2000) and the current Tenth Five-Year Plan (2001-06) have seen enrolment in tertiary institutions more than double from 9.4 million in 2000 to 20 million in 2004. It has also witnessed the rapid rise in the number of non-government (min ban) institutions that compete with the older, better-established state ones.

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I ask, what is your request for your country?

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Gentlemen, democracy is good, you see, the diamond is also good, no one to deny it, but if you are poor, you want to borrow large sums of money to buy it, you will be overwhelmed by the interest.

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The key is not good or bad, the key is you need?

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The logic of some of India members, actually there is something wrong, I hope you will give more consideration.
 
If you want to completely copy China's approach, frankly, both Pakistan and India are not possible, developing countries, only Korea and Vietnam can, in fact, Vietnam has done so.

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So, my first question, How kind of country you want your country? OK, more directly, what do you expect from your country? Not long-winded, just some simple and direct answer.
 
South American countries? You never heard of Che Guevara?

Ofcourse I have. A man who was captured and executed by US trained Bolivian soldiers after he failed to organize an uprising of peasants ,who in turn informed Bolivian Govt leading to his capture.Thus immortalizing his name & picture in the T-shirts of millions of naive college students who want to look radical and anti-establishment to impress their girlfriends.
 
You still didn't answer what system you propose.

Personally I will not support any system where the people doesn't have any say in the decision making process.

If you say China, I can tell you that is wrong, I agree with the Chinese people have no decision-making power on many issues, but they they can influence policy, it is also true.

And the people of India have no decision-making power, oh, of course, you can be elected, but in fact you are still no decision on most issues, the election does not mean solution. The fact that China's public opinion to influence government policy better than India.

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It is strength of democracy that people can show dissatisfaction over government performance and vote it out. It is not its weakness. Ofcourse we cannot all wish for super cool Taliban style government.

China can, at least better than India.
 
democracy is the best form of government.no doubt in that.the problem is with the way in different people understand it.

for example take india,
we may be unhappy with the corruption,bad govt etc,still we have the power and voice to express our stand.

What makes you think the Chinese people no sound?
 
I'm repeating my post again:

Which countries did successful democracies like Canada, Scandinavian Countries, Switzerland, South American Countries, Australia exploited?

Yes, this is a "West" in the broad sense. In the root of their wealth from those of Western colonial powers. Before their democratic system, they had more success and rich than Third World countries.
 
^^ I suggest you to tell a viable alternate system which works without any problems whatsoever at all ....

Also the topic of this thread is utterly wrong. Democracy is in no way failed , an it's certainly no "experiment" !

What are the criteria for failure, elaborate and I will point out similar flaws in other systems too ....




Single party system is OK ? Dictatorship / junta rule is better ? Monarchy is good ?

See , no system is 100% flawless , but the pros of democracy far far outweighs its cons .... thats why its the best available system ....you can't argue with that ... the most developed nations as well as nations topping the human index list are all based on democracies ...

I am not too clear to your basis. To India as an example, you tell me, What are the advantages and disadvantages of that? So, you think more good than harm for democracy in India.
 
If you say China, I can tell you that is wrong, I agree with the Chinese people have no decision-making power on many issues, but they they can influence policy, it is also true.

And the people of India have no decision-making power, oh, of course, you can be elected, but in fact you are still no decision on most issues, the election does not mean solution. The fact that China's public opinion to influence government policy better than India.

Dude, I live in India and know how things work out here. How are you so sure that Indian public have no say in decision making process. If we are not happy with the Govt, we will change them in the next General Election...So election is the answer and solution.

As a Chinese you can defend your system, but don't apply that to India. You are a country with 90% of people belonging to single race and speaking a single language, on the otherhand we are a continent into themselves speaking 15 official languages and hundreds of local dialects.There is not a chance in hell that the Chinese system can work in India.
 
True, but there was serious discussion about that decision, Tony Blair lost his job, his party lost the elections and the troops are now back home. Can you say that this can be done if it was a dictator ruling UK.

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True, but there was serious discussion about that decision, Tony Blair lost his job, his party lost the elections and the troops are now back home. Can you say that this can be done if it was a dictator ruling UK.

I think that Britain will withdraw its troops from Afghanistan, that there is a failure just because the United States decided to retreat, resulting in the UK have this policy. Unfortunately, it does not have any idea of ​​the relationship and the British people if it is successful, Britain will certainly continue to sent troops do not care how Britain people think.
 
Dude, I live in India and know how things work out here. How are you so sure that Indian public have no say in decision making process. If we are not happy with the Govt, we will change them in the next General Election...So election is the answer and solution.

As a Chinese you can defend your system, but don't apply that to India. You are a country with 90% of people belonging to single race and speaking a single language, on the otherhand we are a continent into themselves speaking 15 official languages and hundreds of local dialects.There is not a chance in hell that the Chinese system can work in India.

Some explanations.

1, to illustrate something, I will go directly to the description of some of the problems of India, but I do not want that to become a battle, I want to be a good debate and discussion.

2, I said, Indian people have elections, but elections do not mean that policy decisions, you choose a leader, but the problem still continues, to continue for several years, do you think this is the right decision working? No, it's more like Self-hypnosis.

3, I also said that China's model has unique, most developing countries can learn some things, but can not completely replicate, even I agree that democracy is the best option for India, but and that was India some of their characteristics (trouble), but this is a forced choice, not the true meaning of the optimal choice for India's development.
 
How many dictatorships are under sanctions? Assuming you know the differences between a 'sanction' and a 'blockade', the latter an act of war.


Why not if the US is a 'good example'? Dictatorships can vie for the crown 'Beacon of dictatorship for the world'.


Dictatorships have proven to be the most efficient at exercising a nation's capital towards any venture's success. Why? Because there are no dissenting views outside of the decision making process.

gambit, I ask you a question, do you think is more responsible, the Chinese Government or the Government of India?
 
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