Delhi gurdwaras to hail Indira Gandhi 's killers as martyrs?

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Salute to the martyrs.

I just wish they used traditional kirpan over a 7mm

 

[Abingdonboy]

linking this shyte to religion makes it impossible for young sikhs to take an objective look at the matter.

You are right but the fact is most people, Sikhs included, would struggle to de-link it as this is a highly emotional issue as I'm sure you can appreciate. No Sikh can be objective on this issue when their fellow Sikhs were slain in the most horrid ways imaginable purely because they were Sikhs living in certain areas.

If you think there there is no religious angle here, or that anyone's suggesting all sikhs support this

Like I said:

Having said that, there is no reason to think 99.99999999% of Sikhs are not 100% loyal to their nation.

Like I said, this is a highly emotive issue and the main sore that mainstream and radical Sikhs alike feel is the '84 Delhi killings for which almost nothing has been done.



It is all well and good to say the Sikhs are patriots and this and that but when their own country won't give them justice this is just giving a massive boost to the BS the Khalistanis (the 5 or so guys that remain) like to spew out. This is a massive conflict all Sikhs have to square away.


The saddest part is, this is so needless. I think going after those monsters that orchestrated the Delhi killings would be the least controversial thing any govt could ever do- would any side (other than the perpetrators) object? What do you think @fateh71- is there genuine desire within India to prosecute those wrong-doers?

 

[notsuperstitious]

You are right but the fact is most people, Sikhs included, would struggle to de-link it as this is a highly emotional issue as I'm sure you can appreciate. No Sikh can be objective on this issue when their fellow Sikhs were slain in the most horrid ways imaginable purely because they were Sikhs living in certain areas.


Like I said:





Like I said, this is a highly emotive issue and the main sore that mainstream and radical Sikhs alike feel is the '84 Delhi killings for which almost nothing has been done.



It is all well and good to say the Sikhs are patriots and this and that but when their own country won't give them justice this is just giving a massive boost to the BS the Khalistanis (the 5 or so guys that remain) like to spew out. This is a massive conflict all Sikhs have to square away.


The saddest part is, this is so needless. I think going after those monsters that orchestrated the Delhi killings would be the least controversial thing any govt could ever do- would any side (other than the perpetrators) object? What do you think @fateh71- is there genuine desire within India to prosecute those wrong-doers?

India is a country of 1.2 billion people, a vast majority of whom do not have the time to look beyond earning their daily bread. They do not even know what happened, or what could be done, same as they do not know corrupt politicans can be dumped, education and healthcare can be rights or that corruption can be eradicated. Do they have any desire for prosecuting the 1984 perps? They have no idea.

But there are the educated people who certainly want rule of law and criminals punished. Have you seen any indians saying lets not punish the 1984 rioters?

Justice should be done, yes. But linking the issue to religion is incorrect. Can you say it was a particular religion that carried out the attacks or was it a particular party? Certainly sikhs suffered, but did not hindus suffer in punjab or in kashmir or in noakhali during partition or in kerala during mopilla riots? If we have to link all of this to religion, we will never be able to look at this dispassionately.

Funny thing was aurangzeb's ideological proginy was supporting the militants in punjab!!! You see the irony?

 

[rubyjackass]

Everybody knows they will suffer badly in 2014 elections in Punjab if they oppose it.
Sikhs are always ready to sacrifice their lives for their nations but they also want everybody to respect their martyrs.

You are just BSing when you are saying Congress does not bother with the gurudwara because they are afraid of Punjab elections. So what you mean is that Sikhs by and large hail this idiotic move of celebrating killers of Indian PM and army cheif, who held the highest positions of Indian democracy?! You are labelling Sikhs as traitors while also licking the cr*p thrown by Sikh fundamentalists.
@DARIUS:

@Gandalf is right to quite an extent.The fact that we as Indians failed to bring bastards like Jagdish Tytler to justice owing to domestic politics is the main reason that some Sikhs do endorse these sort of mind sets!!

What is this twisted logic? If you extend the same logic, Sikhs should demand their own country because Jagdish Tytler was not brought to justice.

 

[Android]

I sometimes dont understand why sikhs feel so offended because of operation blue star if a bunch of armed terrorists have taken shelter in any major hindu temple and have taken several pilgrims as hostages i will fully support a blue star like operation inside temple and will blame those terrorists and not army for such action

 

[livingdead]

I will be less offended if sikhs demand a separate country than honouring traitors.
If sikhs are not treated well in India, there is justification for separation. Or greater autonomy.
What is the justification for lionzing killers and traitors.
These guys are exactly same as mumtaz qadri.

The only religion a bodyguard has is to protect the person he/she is supposed to protect. If you hate her, leave your job first.

 

[rubyjackass]

You are right but the fact is most people, Sikhs included, would struggle to de-link it as this is a highly emotional issue as I'm sure you can appreciate. No Sikh can be objective on this issue when their fellow Sikhs were slain in the most horrid ways imaginable purely because they were Sikhs living in certain areas.


Like I said:





Like I said, this is a highly emotive issue and the main sore that mainstream and radical Sikhs alike feel is the '84 Delhi killings for which almost nothing has been done.

This is a ridiculous argument. All Sikhs do remember 1984 riots as injustice. But you are making it look like 'because they feel about the riots, they hail Indira Gandhi's killing'. That is plain BS. There are infact Sikhs who take that line, but to picture that as a mainstream view without any evidence is not correct. I don't know how the country side is in Punjab. But why are there no educated Sikhs(who are not radicals) who come out openly and celebrate Indira Gandhi's killing? The simple reason is that they understand or at least give the benefit of doubt that Operation Blue Star was inevitable. They wouldn't want Indira Gandhi dead for that.

 

[Abhishek_]

^agreed. as a punjabi I understand why bluestar happened. but killing IG for it did more harm than good.
we are one of the most successful minorities of india, and it is far more beneficial for us to stay with the union rather than demand a moronic state of khalistan.
we already have an example of why a state for a particular religion is not a good idea.

 

[Sashan]

Give Sikhs their justice for the 1984 genocide and all these nonsense will stop. Beyond that no point in going into details of these kind of incidents.

 

[Sashan]

@DARIUS:

What is this twisted logic? If you extend the same logic, Sikhs should demand their own country because Jagdish Tytler was not brought to justice.

While I oppose any secession voices, I feel sometimes to get justice one need to raise these kinds of fears into GOI - perfect example Hindi agitation in 1960s. After all these are the same morons at the center who are giving reasons for another community's involvement in terrorism and treat these elements with kids' gloves. In short whoever raises maximum voice wins in this Indian democracy.

How long Sikhs need to wait for their justice?

 

[Abingdonboy]

This is a ridiculous argument. All Sikhs do remember 1984 riots as injustice. But you are making it look like 'because they feel about the riots, they hail Indira Gandhi's killing'. That is plain BS. There are infact Sikhs who take that line, but to picture that as a mainstream view without any evidence is not correct. I don't know how the country side is in Punjab. But why are there no educated Sikhs(who are not radicals) who come out openly and celebrate Indira Gandhi's killing? The simple reason is that they understand or at least give the benefit of doubt that Operation Blue Star was inevitable. They wouldn't want Indira Gandhi dead for that.

Sir I don't think I've said anything that contradicts what you have said. This is how I feel about it too.



This is simply not at all what I meant:

'because they feel about the riots, they hail Indira Gandhi's killing'.

 

[Spring Onion]

I will be less offended if sikhs demand a separate country than honouring traitors.
If sikhs are not treated well in India, there is justification for separation. Or greater autonomy.
What is the justification for lionzing killers and traitors.
These guys are exactly same as mumtaz qadri.

The only religion a bodyguard has is to protect the person he/she is supposed to protect. If you hate her, leave your job first.

I sometimes dont understand why sikhs feel so offended because of operation blue star if a bunch of armed terrorists have taken shelter in any major hindu temple and have taken several pilgrims as hostages i will fully support a blue star like operation inside temple and will blame those terrorists and not army for such action

many reason for offending for Sikhs of India beacuse of the above incident

1. Wasnt it planned on religious day of the Sikhs ? The martyrdom of Guru Arjan Dev. He was the founder of the Golden Temple. Sikhs from all over the world visit the temple on this day.


2.Punjab was sealed completly. International border was sealed along Punjab.
media and the press were gagged; the rail, road and air services in Punjab were suspended. water and electricity supply was cut off.

Was the Indian Army going to attack a neighbouring country ? or merely a Temple?
This shows that Indira Gandhi knew that she was going to conduct something that was not the first resort and will draw widespread opposition.



3. The Indian army attacked Golden Temple when the Sikhs did not fortified it yet. which means the Indian army was already orderd the attack.


Even Then GOC of the Indian Army, S. K. Sinha said that Indian army had been rehearsing the operation in a replica of the Golden Temple at a secret location near Chakrata Cantonment in the Doon Valley.


The list of reasons is long.

 

[livingdead]

@Spring Onion, I am not justifying Indira's action(not her fan anyway), or even rajiv's subsequent inaction. Also sikhs have every right to demand justice for riots.
What is not on, is elected officials of an organized religion officially honouring a killer. These guys breached the sacred trust when they killed the person they were supposed to protect. They are worst than terrorist.

 

[Kazhugu]

hw many times this news will be discussed............

 

[Kazhugu]

Organised religion always has a dark side that emerges from their mob mentality and power politics. SGPC is no different. They have conveniently forgotten how bhindranwale was killing anyone who would not accept his dictats, just like some mullahs have forgotten how many muslims al qaida killed.

valid hypothesis.......but i would have a different take on the matter as i would not blame the sikhs of the afforementioned ills of being an organized religion......

for example in tamil nadu not many support the assasination of rajiv gandhi.....but most oppose the death penalty to rajiv killers.....and the reason is mostly because of the disgust at the way congress has handled the lankan tamil issue and not much with actual support to rajiv assasination......

supporting the killers of rajiv is their way they expressing their dissent at the way tamils have been adandoned by the congress....and actually the sikhs have a far more valid case than even the tamils.......if congress had not shielded killers like tytler or sajjan kumar i dont think the sikhs would support the killers of indira.......

p.s im a tamilian.......