Defence ministry to review carbine procurement, missile system project with France

[INDIAPOSITIVE]

SOURCE: ECONOMIC TIMES

A high powered meeting to be steered by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar is set to take a fresh look at the stuck close quarter carbine procurement plans of the Indian Army and take stock of the long pending short range surface to air missile system (SRSAM) that is to be jointly developed with France.

The MoD is likely to give a go ahead for a Rs 2300 cr order for constructing a new line of large survey vessels. A detailed update on the Maitri SRSAM project is likely to be discussed at the meeting as well.

Parrikar, who is currently reviewing the defence procurement process, is to be given a detailed briefing on the Close Quarter Carbine project and is also likely to discuss further reforms on the purchase process.

Several projects are expected to come up at the Defence Acquisition Committee (DAC) meeting on February 23, including a proposal for the construction of four large survey vessels. Sources have told ET that the defence ministry could give a go ahead for the project.

Also to be discussed is the much delayed procurement of new short range carbines for the army. The army has long retired its carbine and has been hunting for replacements for several years without success.

A tender was issued in 2010 to import 44, 600 carbines and trails were competed in 2013 with Beretta, IWI and Colt. However, the project has been stuck since then as only one of the three competitors – Israeli IWI – qualified as the `night sights’ of the other two failed.

A final decision on going ahead with the project is expected shortly with the Army exploring an option to separate `night sights’ with the main contract that will enable at least two of the three competitors to qualify. The sights could then be made separately by BEL. The other option would be to cancel the tender and start the acquisition process afresh.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

@PARIKRAMA SAMs for Karmorta Class .

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@PARIKRAMA SAMs for Karmorta Class .

Hello,

As per SIPRI, about Kamorta this is what they estimate as part of multiple packages

Kamorta is fitted with an Oto Melara 76mm main gun, two AK-630M CIWS, two RBU-6000 anti-submarine rocket launcher, 16x Barak SAM, 8x 3M54 Klub anti-ship missiles and two triple torpedo launchers
http://Indian Navy Commissions Second Kamorta Class Stealth ASW Corvette ‘INS Kadmatt’

IMHO barak 8 should go to Kamorta owing to the fact it needs LRSAM and Barak 2 is for Point Defence..

The same is said here
Barak 8 is an Indian-Israeli surface-to-air missile, designed to defend against airborne threats including aircraft, helicopters and anti-ship and cruise missiles
Each missile is 4.5 metre long and weighs 275 kilogram. It has the capability to carry a 60-kilogram warhead that detonates at proximity with the target
The Indian Navy is going to install the missile system in the INS Kolkata-class destroyers, the INS Visakhaptnam-class destroyers, the Kamorta-class corvettes, INS Vikramaditya, INS Vikrant and the Project 17A frigates.
Indian Navy successfully tests Barak 8 interceptor missile: All you need to know : Current Affairs

Edited to correct weight which article quoted 2 kg and its actually 275 kg

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Hello,

As per SIPRI, about Kamorta this is what they estimate as part of multiple packages

View attachment 295086

Kamorta is fitted with an Oto Melara 76mm main gun, two AK-630M CIWS, two RBU-6000 anti-submarine rocket launcher, 16x Barak SAM, 8x 3M54 Klub anti-ship missiles and two triple torpedo launchers
http://Indian Navy Commissions Second Kamorta Class Stealth ASW Corvette ‘INS Kadmatt’

IMHO barak 8 should go to Kamorta owing to the fact it needs LRSAM and Barak 2 is for Point Defence..

The same is said here
Barak 8 is an Indian-Israeli surface-to-air missile, designed to defend against airborne threats including aircraft, helicopters and anti-ship and cruise missiles
Each missile is 4.5 metre long and weighs 2 kilogram. It has the capability to carry a 60-kilogram warhead that detonates at proximity with the target
The Indian Navy is going to install the missile system in the INS Kolkata-class destroyers, the INS Visakhaptnam-class destroyers, the Kamorta-class corvettes, INS Vikramaditya, INS Vikrant and the Project 17A frigates.
Indian Navy successfully tests Barak 8 interceptor missile: All you need to know : Current Affairs

I don't remember the news piece link but it had a list of warships to be fitted with Brarak 8, that list didn't had Karmorta class included.

So in all probability, VL MICA coming.

 

[ni8mare]

2 kilogram. I

seriously ..

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I don't remember the news piece link but it had a list of warships to be fitted with Brarak 8, that list didn't had Karmorta class included.

So in all probability, VL MICA coming.

As of now for Barak 8, SIPRI does not name kamorta of course

Few articles quoting VL MICA are

• Space left for the installation of 16/32 VL-Mica Surface to Air Missiles. They will be procured under the category of SR-SAM and locally named as Maitri.
• Source Kamorta Class : Analysis of India’s Deadly Anti-Submarine Corvette | Defencyclopedia

But Naval-technology says the following
The Kamorta class integrates a composite superstructure and stealth technology for reducing infrared and radar signatures, noise levels, and magnetic outputs. It is armed with 3M-54 Klub anti-ship cruise missiles, Barak surface-to-air missiles, a 76mm super rapid gun, two AK-630M close-in weapon systems, two RBU-6000 anti-submarine rocket launchers, and two triple torpedo tubes.
A class in stealth - the world’s best navy corvettes - Naval Technology

seriously ..

Ya news report quotes some odd figure.. so i did not change as i was quoting news report..

lemme correct it..

 

[Ankit Kumar]

As of now for Barak 8, SIPRI does not name kamorta of course


View attachment 295103 View attachment 295104 View attachment 295105

Few articles quoting VL MICA are

• Space left for the installation of 16/32 VL-Mica Surface to Air Missiles. They will be procured under the category of SR-SAM and locally named as Maitri.
• Source Kamorta Class : Analysis of India’s Deadly Anti-Submarine Corvette | Defencyclopedia

But Naval-technology says the following
The Kamorta class integrates a composite superstructure and stealth technology for reducing infrared and radar signatures, noise levels, and magnetic outputs. It is armed with 3M-54 Klub anti-ship cruise missiles, Barak surface-to-air missiles, a 76mm super rapid gun, two AK-630M close-in weapon systems, two RBU-6000 anti-submarine rocket launchers, and two triple torpedo tubes.
A class in stealth - the world’s best navy corvettes - Naval Technology


Ya news report quotes some odd figure.. so i did not change as i was quoting news report..

lemme correct it..

It remains to be seen .
I would personally want VL MICA .

 

[PARIKRAMA]

It remains to be seen .
I would personally want VL MICA .

Thats possible but as of now nothing has happened in that project and estimates also is not given under France tag for SIPRI..
See this for France tag

If VL MICA is coming or Maitri then our Kamorta and Kadamatt may be without a SAM cover as its a process to be followed for procurement and installation of Maitri.

OTOH anything from retiring INS Viraat which sports 16 x Barak 1 SRSAM is immediately available but as i said its point defence system (PDS) till either Barak 8 comes or VL MICA (Maitri) is procured.

 

[ni8mare]

As of now for Barak 8, SIPRI does not name kamorta of course


View attachment 295103 View attachment 295104 View attachment 295105

Few articles quoting VL MICA are

• Space left for the installation of 16/32 VL-Mica Surface to Air Missiles. They will be procured under the category of SR-SAM and locally named as Maitri.
• Source Kamorta Class : Analysis of India’s Deadly Anti-Submarine Corvette | Defencyclopedia

But Naval-technology says the following
The Kamorta class integrates a composite superstructure and stealth technology for reducing infrared and radar signatures, noise levels, and magnetic outputs. It is armed with 3M-54 Klub anti-ship cruise missiles, Barak surface-to-air missiles, a 76mm super rapid gun, two AK-630M close-in weapon systems, two RBU-6000 anti-submarine rocket launchers, and two triple torpedo tubes.
A class in stealth - the world’s best navy corvettes - Naval Technology


Ya news report quotes some odd figure.. so i did not change as i was quoting news report..

lemme correct it..

i don't think there is enough space for B8......system like MICA or CAMM is needed whose foot print is less

 

[PARIKRAMA]

i don't think there is enough space for B8......system like MICA or CAMM is needed whose foot print is less

Possible... if we want 16/32 configs of VL MICA or any other SRSAM...

But i also see a possibility of using 8 Barak 8 and 8 barak 1 combination... that way both kamorta and Kadamatt gets armed from same INS Viraat retirement and also using a LRSAM...

With a PDS/SRSAM combo especially since these are ASW ships, they remain vulnerable.. so at least a 50-70 Km range high quality LR SAM is needed any day. In any day conflict they should be first targeted so that subs can sneak in and do the damage by attacking land based targets or destroying all ships and then proceeding for A2/AD role.

 

[ni8mare]

Possible... if we want 16/32 configs of VL MICA or any other SRSAM...

But i also see a possibility of using 8 Barak 8 and 8 barak 1 combination... that way both kamorta and Kadamatt gets armed from same INS Viraat retirement and also using a LRSAM...

With a PDS/SRSAM combo especially since these are ASW ships, they remain vulnerable.. so at least a 50-70 Km range high quality LR SAM is needed any day. In any day conflict they should be first targeted so that subs can sneak in and do the damage by attacking land based targets or destroying all ships and then proceeding for A2/AD role.

Actually the problem is space ...........I have no doubt about 16/32 SRSAM (Maitri/Barak 1/Akash NG)can be accommodated easily due to low foot print

But can Barak 8 be accommodated ? I am not sure .......... i think space is problem, and for B8 length is

Observe below pics

I think we need to have a SRSAM system like CAMM system which uses same missile one in SRSAM mode and another one Extended Range /ER in MRSAM mode both have very low foot print which is very important for these kind of Small vessel to accommodate a strong air defence and same can be used for other ships also with adjustment, for explame

Air defence system:......SRSAM...........MRSAM..........................LRSAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Corvette................:.......Maitri...............Maitri ER/Barak 8
Destroyers/Frigate:.......Maitri...............Barak 8.............................Barak 8 ER/ VLRSAM (DRDO)

 

[Abingdonboy]

I think we need to have a SRSAM system like CAMM system which uses same missile one in SRSAM mode and another one in MRSAM mode both have very low foot print which is very important for these kind of Small vessel to accommodate a strong air defence and same can be used for other ships also with adjustment, for explame

Air defence system:......SRSAM...........MRSAM..........................LRSAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Corvette................:.......Maitri...............Maitri ER/Barak 8
Destroyers/Frigate:.......Maitri...............Barak 8.............................Barak 8 ER/ VLRSAM (DRDO)

I like this model very much and I think this is exactly where the IN is looking.

 

[Abingdonboy]

+ btw- bloody awesome pic! To think she is "just" a corvette . Hatsoff to the IN, they have transformed themselves into a world class force on <20% of the defence budget and are now expanding at an ever greater rate whilst the IAF and IA have remained stagnant.

 

[ni8mare]

+ btw- bloody awesome pic! To think she is "just" a corvette . Hatsoff to the IN, they have transformed themselves into a world class force on <20% of the defence budget and are now expanding at an ever greater rate whilst the IAF and IA have remained stagnant.

Kamorta class looks damn good from above .......only we need now is compact effective air defence

 

[Abingdonboy]

Kamorta class looks damn good from above .......only we need now is compact effective air defence

Karmorta class and the Saryu class NOPV should be marketed as frigates to foriegn navies and with their modular designs they can easily be outfitted as the user requires, there is a huge market for them and as soon as India is seen as a credible exporter of Mil-grade equipment many others will take notice,