Defeat of Sikhs by Dilasa Khan Bannuchi

[KingMamba]

Are you coming with these facts straight from your a$$.I can understand your insecurity,living in a country which is being currently ruled by a hardcore Hindu right wing Govt. is making mullahs like you literally pi$$ in your pants.But you need not have to worry.There won't be any riot this time.RSS has already made a grand strategy of reconverting back all lost souls like you back into the fold of Hinduism and they are resolved to accomplish this by the end of this decade.
Lastly,i do have a relative working at a high position in the MHA and he told me that the present Islamic population is a little less than 15% of the population as per the 2011 census(yeah they do have the latest religion based census in thier hands and they are going to release it quite soon) and the funniest thing is that more than a third of them are Shias who are extremely loyal to this country.So basically your own community is divided badly and the reality is that the Sunnies are more or less 10% of the Indian population.

If the numbers were only 15% then GOI under Congress would never had withheld them to begin with.

 

[KingMamba]

Victory & defeat in a battle can be due to a variety of reasons and one cannot judge a people based on the outcome of a single battle. I am a student of history and prefer to base my observations on facts and the events whose outcome directly results in a change of regime and / or fate of a nation. Okay the Sikh got defeated in a battle; have anyoneone given a thought as to why and how Sikhs came to rule a very vast area from Khyber to Sirhand and from Kashmir to Sind borders in the first place?

History of Punjab and the Sikhs is not very old and thus not shrouded in the mists of time.

While Marathas were active in the Central & Eastern fringes of the Mughal Empire, main reason for the rise of the Sikh power in Punjab were invasions by the Muslim adventurers Nader Shah Afshar & Ahmad Shah Abdali.

Arguably; primary reason for the fall of the Mughal Empire was short-sighted policies of Aurangzeb who bankrupted Mughal Empire in a long and disastrous war with the Marathas. Also by finishing off the Muslim states of Golconda & Bijapour he also eliminated two major enemies of the Marathas. Mughal territories in the northern subcontinent remained largely intact until the 1730's.

As if the infighting among the Mughal princes as to who would be the king and intrigue of the Syed brothers was not enough; Mughal state was dealt a fatal blow when Nader Shah with about 60,000 Iranians & Afghans defeated 200,000 strong Mughal Army of Mohamed Shah Rangeela at the battle of Karnal in 1739. However, since we are discussing Sikhs, let us limit this discussion to Punjab.

IMO last nail in the coffin of the Mughal / Muslim rule in Punjab were the invasions of Ahmad Shah Abdali. Afghan king defeated Mughal governor Nasir Khan and seized Peshawar in October 1747. Abdali then crossed Indus and in January 1748, 30,000 Afghans aided by 5,000 Pathans led by Jamal Khan of Kasur; defeated 70,000 troops of the Shah Nawaz - Mughal governor of Punjab.

Ahmad Shah Abdali is considered one of our heroes because he defeated the Marathas at Panipat in 1761, but he was also responsible for the rise of the Sikh power in Punjab. It is an undeniable fact that Afghan presence in Punjab during 1748 to 1767 destroyed whatever was left of the Mughal state apparatus and paved the way for the Sikh conquest.

Sikhs were already on the rise but until 1738, Sikhs could only engage in guerrilla warfare against the Mughal Subedars of Punjab. Charat Singh Shukchakia was the first Sikh warlord to establish an independent fiefdom at Gujranwala in 1763.

Ahmad Shah left Najibuddaula, the Rohila Afghan leader in charge of Delhi (grandfather of Ghulam Qadir Rohilla who raped Moghul princesses and blinded Shah Alam II). Rohillas were however unable to keep Delhi safe. Najibudaula was forced to pay a tribute of 11 lakhs to Baghel Singh of Karor Singhia Misl in 1764. Baghel Singh later began to raid other parts of Mughal state at the behest of his Rohilla allies Zabita Khan & Ghulam Qadir.

There was no stopping the rise of Sikh power after the death of Ahmad Shah in 1773 which culminated in Ranjeet Singh crowning himself as Raja of Punjab in 1801.

According to the 1941 census conducted by the British Total population Punjab including the princely states was 34.3-million. Muslims were 53.2%, Hindus 29.1%, Sikhs 14.9% rest were being Christians, Buddhists etc. Pray tell me how could 15% of the population; at the time when fighting was mostly by swords and arrows and single shot guns; manage to seize the power from Muslims who numbered more than 50% of the population and hold on to it for more than 50 years! Muslims of Punjab had to wait until 1849 and the British to be rid of the Sikh yoke.

I am not praising the Sikhs here. They were out to plunder & loot. Instead I am trying to say that while I whole heartedly praise Dilawar Khan for his victory over the Sikhs; it was a minor battle with little or no impact on the health of the Sikh state. Hari Singh Nalwa conquered Peshawar (winter capital of Afghan empire) in 1834. Afghans were again defeated at the battle of Jamrud in April 1837.

It is not so simple as 15% of population seizing power over the majority, Ranjit Singh was a smart man and he knew that he needed the support of Punjabi Muslims if he was to gain and retain power hence Muslims of Punjab faced no restrictions in the kingdom and could do pretty much anything in exchange for loyalty. That is why he let a large portion of Muslim tribes even join his army. Compare this to the treatment of Kashmiri Muslims who according to most accounts were treated like dirt by Sikhs, Muslims in Punjab were almost always left alone. Another factor was the treatment of Muslims by the Afghans. Under Ahmad Shah the Punjabi Muslims were treated with respect and the tribes were never attacked or looted in any of the Afghan invasions, in fact Ahmad Shah saw himself as a religious leader and he felt he was looking out for the Punjabi Muslims against the Sikhs (not to mention you can also see this in his intention to attack China to free Muslim Turks in the western parts of China that were just annexed that never materialized due to his death) and even the Marathas during Panipat. That is why Ahmad Shah is so respected amongst Punjabi Muslims till this day and most consider him our King as the Afghans do. Compare this to the treatment of Punjabi Muslims by his successors who looted Muslim villages in order to gain booty (during Afghan invasions under Ahmad Shah sikh villages used to clear out and run into the hills to hide, Muslims never did because they were never bothered in his lifetime, in fact that is the main reason Ahmad Shah could never wipe out the Sikhs despite his many attempts to do so and the one time he did corner them it became known in their history as the Sikh genocide) and you can understand why the same tribes who once welcomed the Afghans now stood against them in their war against Ranjit Singh years later.

Another thing that is not mentioned in most sources but definitively played a part in getting Punjabi Muslims to side with the Sikhs was the respect shown to the saints. At the time Sufism played a huge role in the everyday lives of Punjabi Muslims and each tribe had its own dargah in the village which was usually led by the family members of the saint who influenced the conversion of said tribe to Islam (in fact this is still common as you probably know but the introduction of deobandism and wahabbism has lessened the influence of said dargahs). Ranjit Singh is known for turning the temple of Amritsar into the Golden temple of today but what they don't say is how he used to pay his respect at dargahs and usually decorate tombs with fine silks and/or jewels every time he captured a new area. This fostered a lot of good will and also stopped Muslim clerics of Punjab from bothering to declare a jihad to free Punjab from the Sikhs, which btw is another reason why Syed Ahmad Barelvis movement found more followers in Pakhtun areas then amongst Punjabi Muslims.

@Samandri @save_ghenda @Jaggu @Butchcassidy @Joe Shearer @RazPaK

 

[FaujHistorian]

I believe the Sikh Empire were also defeated by Tibetans in a local war with them.

good point. That's where Sikh + Dogra army was defeated by winters + Sino-Tibetan army.

Kind of reminds of smaller version of German invasion then defeat in Russia's cold winters.

 

[Cat Shannon]

Sikhs are and were overrated, one-off does not count. Few years here and there does not count. Pashtuns have proved themselves time and time again. Yes Sikhs were worthy enemy of Pashtuns for a short period of time, however compare them to other enemies of Pashtuns over the centuries sikhs does not even come close. Everyone tried and miserably failed, history is the witness.

hey man , many people from alexander and before to the US army of 2001 have defeated the people and captured the land of afghanisthan and pashtuns. all right ?

talk about over glorification. sikh overglorification is about 1/10th of pashtun overglorification. so there..

 

[Samandri]

IAhmad Shah could never wipe out the Sikhs despite his many attempts to do so and the one time he did corner them it became known in their history as the Sikh genocide)

It was known as "ghuloo ghara" , the great disaster, but now they are calling it "great genocide", i dont know why as it was slaughter of those Sikh warriors who had plundered and ravaged Maler kotla and then invested jandiala . Ahmad Shah quickly responded .he arrived first in Jandialah, sikhs fled as usual and then he arrived in Lahore. With Shah’s presence at Lahore, the Sikhs got slack, thinking that he had no intentions of their pursuit, they fled towards Sirhind. His sudden withdrawal to Lahore and the rumours that this time he wanted to advance beyond Delhi had made the Sikhs complacent. They did not speedily march into Malwa hills as usual. The Shah soon made them repent their blunder. He had come to know about their presence near Maler Kotla. He sallied out from Lahore at the head of his troops with utmost precaution and secrecy. He, covering a distance of 150 miles in about 36 hours, caught the Sikhs unaware and unprepared near Kot Rohera. Joined by the Afghan chiefs of Maler Kotla, Ahmad Shah on 5th May 1762 cut their route of retreat and surrounded them from all sides. Suddenly a panic seized them and general stampede followed. In the evening when Afghans stopped at a pond to water their horses, the Sikhs availed the opportunity. They fled towards Hariana and Barnala leaving behind about thirty thousands dead. But in the absence of Ahmad Shah Abdali from the Punjab, whenever the Sikhs got an opportunity they literally devastated the whole country.

 

[Samandri]

hey man , many people from alexander and before to the US army of 2001 have defeated the people and captured the land of afghanisthan and pashtuns. all right ?

talk about over glorification. sikh overglorification is about 1/10th of pashtun overglorification. so there..

The characteristic of Pashtuns is not invincibility but resilience, fearlessness and resistance to occupation against the odds. Terrain is tough and they were always the first to face any invading army intended for india. If they had not the above mentioned characteristics, they couldn't have survived as a race. That being said, pashtuns have had many serious flaws, always disunited and at each other throat, De-centralized etc.

 

[Cat Shannon]

The characteristic of Pashtuns is not invincibility but resilience, fearlessness and resistance to occupation against the odds. Terrain is tough and they were always the first to face any invading army intended for india. If they had not the above mentioned characteristics, they couldn't have survived as a race. That being said, pashtuns have had many serious flaws, always disunited and at each other throat, De-centralized etc.

mountain people are like that. nottthing special about pashtuns. technology has passed them by. if they have an enemy fighting with 21st technology and the resolve of 500 BC (present in every single human), pashtuns will be wiped off the face off earth.

fact, pashtuns have the muslim world behind them. and THAT is why they survive.

nough said ! don't take it harshly and i'm not talking about you here...but on the topic of pashtuns, i see lolicon boys looking upto big hairy warriors as supermen as very, i can't emphasise how retarded !

 

[Kabira]

mountain people are like that. nottthing special about pashtuns. technology has passed them by. if they have an enemy fighting with 21st technology and the resolve of 500 BC (present in every single human), pashtuns will be wiped off the face off earth.

fact, pashtuns have the muslim world behind them. and THAT is why they survive.

nough said ! don't take it harshly and i'm not talking about you here...but on the topic of pashtuns, i see lolicon boys looking upto big hairy warriors as supermen as very, i can't emphasise how retarded !

Dude this is history section.

 

[Cat Shannon]

Dude this is history section.

:surprised:

dude, there is a ghenda dying somewhere..it's calling you !

 

[Alphacharlie]

Not sure if you are Sikh or just a BJP walah venting his frustration after a hand job.

With these rants, you belittle one of the greatest ruler Maharajah Ranjeet Singh.

Calm down and understand how Maharajah worked with his Muslims counterparts most of the time.

His war was not against Muslims. Instead against anarchy and instability in the region.

This aspect is lost on many Sikhs, especially Maharajah's own sons.

Hope you understand.

One Word = dont talk "SHIT" WHEN YOU KNOW NOTHING ON SIKH HISTORY.

 

[mbg]

The only race that compares in martial prowess to Pathan are the Rajputs. Time after time both groups faced dire odds and kept on fighting to preserve their honor and freedom. Almost as many times they could have taken Hindustan for themselves but were decimated by infighting

 

[Water Car Engineer]

The only race that compares in martial prowess to Pathan are the Rajputs. Time after time both groups faced dire odds and kept on fighting to preserve their honor and freedom. Almost as many times they could have taken Hindustan for themselves but were decimated by infighting

The Rajputs in the initial periods did fight, but later they submitted one way or another.

The peoples that never get any credit in these lame contested are the Deccanis.

They've always rebounded the fastest, then go to create very successful states of their own.

 

[dravidianhero]

@jatt+gutts
That sardar is a liar. Sikhs didn't do any damage to Indian armed forces.

Let me tell how much scared Indian government was/is of Sikhs. Sikhs killed Indira Gandhi. Even innocent Sikhs were not spared.

Tamilians killed Rajiv Gandhi. Indian government couldn'tdo shit. Because they knew Tamils wouldn't take that shit.

Sikhs are not but a bunch of self-praising delusional people.

Majority of tamilans are Hindus just like other Indians.

 

[mbg]

The Rajputs in the initial periods did fight, but later they submitted one way or another.

The peoples that never get any credit in these lame contested are the Deccanis.

They've always rebounded the fastest, then go to create very successful states of their own.

Decannis are very diverse not just religiously but culturally and linguistically. Its hard to see them as a singular group of people

 

[Icewolf]

Sikh history was glorified and exaggerated by the Baniya leadership in India post 1947.
Indians knew that they didn't have much good history and we're always subjugated one way or another so they needed heroes and created Sikhs and Rajputs who were basically nothing infront of Mughals and Pathans