Dedicated To COAS Qamar Bajwa and CJ Jamali

[Verve]

Just one thing..i want to clarify... I am not asking for a direct takeover... just tell me...if even bureaucrats like Fawad Hasan Fawad, were arrested on dawn leaks, under army act...or one or two ministers were arrested..tu kon si qayamat aati? Asim Hussain was arrested..jamhooryat chali gayi?why have we assumed tht if powerful people are punished for their crimes...then hell will break lose? Hadith tells us something else...

As I said before, those who have the power to do something about it will be answerable.

And hell had broken loose, 60k+ lives lost due to gross policies of our ruling elites. To undo the filth of decades is going to take some time. No quick fixes .. even if the constitution is uprooted and replaced with new, punishing the corrupt and murderers will take time under the new constitution.

 

[Lahorie]

@epicname: Lets just for sake of discussion admit that NS is product of Army, then doesn't calling the Army create possibility of making of another NS??? Moreover, IS it FAULT of Pak Army if general Public elects NS again and again despite nkowing that he is product of Pak Army ??

yes...I can answer...

Ermm..but pray tell me..was bringing and enforcing NRO, upon us, along with international establishment, also their job? had these rulers been punished, when they had the charge..we would not have been in such a miserable condition... there was corruption always in Pakistan..but the level of shamelessness regd corruption and treason, tht is now in Pak, after 2008 elections, was not there earlier.. there were no frequent acts like memo gate and dawn leaks.. once in a blue moon ..kuch hota tha..like tht.. but the same army leadership brought NRO upon us, through deals with international establishment... now what we ask..is..just clean the mess, once and for all, you brought upon us, in the form of NRO, and free us, from its clutches... its their moral obligation to the ppl of Pakistan to free us, from NRO beneficiaries.. we did not ask them to bring NRO...it wasn't their job..they still did it..
now do us a favor...and free us, from these NROed rulers..NOT through Martial law, but atleast acting against traitors... is it too much to ask for?if they clean their mess, once and for all, then after this, public wont be calling them as savior..
but then we know..nothing like tht is going to happen... hence I say, Army and judiciary will be responsible for Pakistan's barbaadi, as foretold by hadith

@epicname, @Farah Sohail: Who has cursed the Judicary and Election Commission to NOT declared NRO as unconstitutional ??? Oh Sorry, Both CANNOT stand against politicians just like in case of Panama Leaks.

I respect your view brother but lets say
king Arthur is NS and Merlin is COAS. Merlin has the power to correct Arthur especially in this case and for all these people who think why Merlin coz he is the last option. And we know the Rigging system in Pakistan. Never the less i Appreciate your post

Lets consider a scenario: If powers of King Arthur were given to him by public at large, then what right does Merlin have to taken these away? Will it NOT be acting against the public ??

and

if King Arthur is abusing powers, why doesn't public revolt against king Arthur (French Revolution) instead of sitting cozily at home and expect that Merlin will save them?

 

[mr.robot]

@epicname: Lets just for sake of discussion admit that NS is product of Army, then doesn't calling the Army create possibility of making of another NS??? Moreover, IS it FAULT of Pak Army if general Public elects NS again and again despite nkowing that he is product of Pak Army ??



@epicname, @Farah Sohail: Who has cursed the Judicary and Election Commission to NOT declared NRO as unconstitutional ??? Oh Sorry, Both CANNOT stand against politicians just like in case of Panama Leaks.




Lets consider a scenario: If powers of King Arthur were given to him by public at large, then what right does Merlin have to taken these away? Will it NOT be acting against the public ??

and

if King Arthur is abusing powers, why doesn't public revolt against king Arthur (French Revolution) instead of sitting cozily at home and expect that Merlin will save them?

Seriously, you think that free elections are held in Pakistan while NRO is in effect..... SC and EC are part of ruling elite.

Read history of 90s elections and IJI. Read how NRO took place. Wait for some wikileaks or consciousness of some retired judge/general to wake up and he will tell you about 2008/2013 elections.

 

[Lahorie]

Just one thing..i want to clarify... I am not asking for a direct takeover... just tell me...if even bureaucrats like Fawad Hasan Fawad, were arrested on dawn leaks, under army act...or one or two ministers were arrested..tu kon si qayamat aati? Asim Hussain was arrested..jamhooryat chali gayi?why have we assumed tht if powerful people are punished for their crimes...then hell will break lose? Hadith tells us something else...

Do you remember Baldia Factory Fire Incident in Karachi? I am sure you do. How long ago the case was handed over to ISI? Maybe 8 months ago. 6 days ago, the main culprit, who set fire in that factory, was caught in Singapore by 40 Singapore Police Commandos and Interpol. The people close to the case in Singapore say that main intel about his culprit's whereabouts came from Pakistan. How can Pakistan go to so far? All I can think is that because ISI is still investigating it.

If there are NO news about Dawn Leaks then this does NOT mean that case is in cold storage.

If CoAS can issue orders of hanging till deaths of terrorists despite there is UN-officail ban on death panelty then its logical to think that Army will NOT back down on Dawn Leaks.

Extention of Military Courts' by SC is another debate.

 

[Dawood Ibrahim]

@epicname: Lets just for sake of discussion admit that NS is product of Army, then doesn't calling the Army create possibility of making of another NS??? Moreover, IS it FAULT of Pak Army if general Public elects NS again and again despite nkowing that he is product of Pak Army ??



@epicname, @Farah Sohail: Who has cursed the Judicary and Election Commission to NOT declared NRO as unconstitutional ??? Oh Sorry, Both CANNOT stand against politicians just like in case of Panama Leaks.




Lets consider a scenario: If powers of King Arthur were given to him by public at large, then what right does Merlin have to taken these away? Will it NOT be acting against the public ??

and

if King Arthur is abusing powers, why doesn't public revolt against king Arthur (French Revolution) instead of sitting cozily at home and expect that Merlin will save them?

Well the simple answer elections were Rigged. And when people were protesting why was the Army called. Army should have been on border right that's were they really belong.

 

[Lahorie]

Well the simple answer elections were Rigged. And when people were protesting why was the Army called. Army should have been on border right that's were they really belong.

Army was CALLED by Gov't because Police failed to ensure that. Is it Army's fault now that NS Govt CALLED Pak Army to ensure peace in capital? Can anyone dare to ask NS why he called the Pak Army?

 

[Moonlight]

Mafhoom of hadith, not exact words : tum se pehle ki qoumein isi liye barbaad huein kiun ke woh kamzoron ki sazaa deti thein aur taqatwaron ko chor deti theen, agar meri beti Fatima ne bhi chori ki hoti, tu main uske haath kaat deta.....
This is the gist of hadith, not exact words

Talking about Hadith will attract desi liberals and seculars and socialists and they will start making fun of Hadith. They praise Iqbal and Qaid for the creation of Pakistan. Pakistan a country created in the name of Islam. But they will reject the idea of Hadiths and warnings and sings delivered to us in these hadiths and Quran.

ARMY LEADERSHIP will be directly responsible now, for whatever happens to Pakistan now..and we have already been foretold through hadith, tht what will happen

I knew it will be a litmus test for new COAS that if he will let Sharif family go free in this dawn scandal, will speak of the decision why he's new COAS. Honestly I am disappointed by establishment too. When it comes to MQM and PPP they have strict rules but thi Sharif family gets away with everything. They even handled the pressure of Rangers op in Punjab.

RELEASE KULBHUSHAN YADEV: If army or the state of Pakistan, has any iota of shame or grace left in them, which i highly doubt....then they should immediately release kulbhushan yadev.. Why I say this? Because Kul hushan Yadev was an HONORABLE MAN, who did for his country, what he was supposed to do.. He belonged to an enemy state and he just did his duty.. Lekin kulbhushan yadev ko arrest kar ke bravery ke medals sajaanay walon ko sharam se doob marr jana chahye.. Belonging to India, what he was supposed to do? But what are you supposed to do, so called, defenders of Pakistan? Aap ka kaam yehi reh gaya hai ke kamzoron ko pakrein..aur ruling elite ke saath NRO karte rahein? Treason par agar Dawn leaks ke culprits ko maafi mil sakti hai, tu kulbhushan ko kiun nahi? He didnt even committ treason... The difference was...HE was TRUE TO HIS COUNTRY..which defenders of NRO are not...

With all the respect sister, I disagree with you here. If we will keep showing grace and mercy to spy from enemy country we won't get rid out the filth form our country.

 

[Dawood Ibrahim]

Army was CALLED by Gov't because Police failed to ensure that. Is it Army's fault now that NS Govt CALLED Pak Army to ensure peace in capital? Can anyone dare to ask NS why he called the Pak Army?

Brother i don't won't to go deep but why did the Army go for the sake a corrupt government defence and if so why can't they come for us. Simple as that

 

[The Eagle]

@Farah Sohail

There is no need to bring in Military for justice.

Corrupt elite/rules are elected from the core of heart by us people so we must not seek the Military path for solutions of the problem that we ourselves brought to our homes. A democratic virus needs to be eradicated through democratic means and that is only possible through support to the right people after learning a good lesson from past, if we can though doesn't seems the case here.

Courts cannot be overruled by Military at all nor any civilian can however, the correct the system and make it like an impact, it is necessary to invoke the jurisdiction as well as by going among the people to tell them what is happening. What really damaged us, is the way that people use to keep tight lip service due to any means guaranteed to them either a compensation by land awarding, money or even by giving them a leverage through a cover of their wrong doing, against their silence for the matter.

Dawn Leak is already under investigation and concerned officials are conducting the enquiry. However, by pushing the COAS to take over or break the chain in hurry to punish the culprit, will be like giving a life line and let them be called again Political Martyrs (Siyasi Shaheed).

I repeat, let the Court decide first that if, on 1st step does not punish the real culprit, it will be still helpful that people become aware about what really happening and to be honest, People are the real power that can make any ruler or department to change the course in right direction but firstly, there must be a visible & clear reason to bring the change.

One must keep in mind, ISI is not some public service department that has to make an appearance on every issue. There are rules and SOPs defined to curb down the threats which depends on priority list. Other departments are here to serve the public and to be openly in contact with Public as well though they are under the command of ruling elite hence couldn't expect much.

These political corrupts are regularly spreading rumors and baseless claims only to demonize the prestige of most trusted institute as well as such social media teams are created to mislead and misguide the mass while having the media houses as front-men to change the mind and thoughts of people.

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Members here: Kindly avoid ethnic or linguistic debate. Also, at high time of emotions, we must keep in view the respect and ethics while discussing otherwise, must take a break. No institution is corrupt or virus but it is the people in power that made it looks like this so rather than demolishing the whole building, it is necessary to criticize the the real culprit and highlight the matter for betterment of Nation/Pakistan.

 

[Dawood Ibrahim]

Army to remain in the capital

• Islamabad

12 MINS AGO BY INP

Stay of Pakistan Army in the federal capital has been extended for three months for security of the key installations.

Interior Ministry has issued notification of extension in stay of the army, until March 3, 2017, on Friday.

The extension was granted under Article-245 of the Constitution of Pakistan. As of now, army personnel are deployed for security of president house, prime minister (PM) house, parliament house, supreme court and Red Zone. Army has also become of one the rapid response force to tackle internal security of the federal capital.



Is it because of PTI might announce protest if NS win unfairly

 

[The Eagle]

Aray Waah waah.... kudos... clapping... look whos back? @The Eagle @PakSword @Doordie our very own PARVEZ RASHID is back
but let me think...why did he disappear? oh yes.. I remember now.. there was a thing called Dawn leaks, for which investigation..he was made to resign??? wheres the report..to investigate tht matter..by the way? oh forget it..... good news..is tht our champion of democracy Parvez Rashid is back
was missing him badly.. afterall his lectures on democracy were a treat to watch

I am sure, everyone like me, is delighted at his return..isn't it?

 

[Lavrentiy]

Its burnol time for youthiyas and army fan boys.

The army has no role whatsoever in apprehending anyone for corruption charges. These over glorified government servants must be put in their right place. Who the hell are FA pass Generals to question the Chief Executive (PM) or cabinet ministers for any damn thing?

Now these uniformed property dealers are going to do accountability of others.

And that stupid Dawn Leaks case. Everyone knows that ISI has links with JuD/LeT. The only thing that got leaked, was the inflated ego of the incompetent DG ISI who was rightfully and bluntly confronted by a civilian leader for his utter failure.

I hope more of these leaks take place so that the Generals start doing their damn job for which they receive perks and privileges.

 

[Farah Sohail]

@Farah Sohail

There is no need to bring in Military for justice.

Corrupt elite/rules are elected from the core of heart by us people so we must not seek the Military path for solutions of the problem that we ourselves brought to our homes. A democratic virus needs to be eradicated through democratic means and that is only possible through support to the right people after learning a good lesson from past, if we can though doesn't seems the case here.

.

Almost everything u said..i have responded in other posts, in this thread..but ok..i will again repeat

@bold.....I disagree fully... This NROed democracy is not the problem, which we, the people brought on ourselves... Lets be honest... The current rulers, under NRO was brought upon us, by COAS and DG ISI of tht time Gen Musharraf and Gen Kiyani, respectively.... We, the people had no part in bringing NRO.. Cases of current rulers were closed and they were allowed to contest elections, under NRO, with full backing of international establishments, by army leadership of tht time, after accusing them of corruption, for many years.. Then again, we had no role in killing of Benazir bhutto, as a result of which PPP gained sympathy vote, and Zardari was brought to power..and we all know, how fair elections are in Pakistan, so even dont know whether the majority vote PPP in 2008, got was genuine, or only a result of NRO setup, since it was already decided in NRO setup tht liberal parties would be brought to power..

Then again, people of Pakistan had no role when Musharraf let Nawaz Sharif, go to KSA, when he was in jail... Again Musharraf did a deal with KSA, and nawaz Sharif and let him go and flourish in KSA, when he was in jail...

So, one thing is clear tht the current setup is not brought by people of Pakistan and it came , through an arrangement between international establishments and our Army leadership...

As I said in an earlier post on this thread, tht there was always corruption in Pakistan, even treason too....but the shamelessness tht is there now, after 2008 elections, was not there earlier.. Earlier, it was still considered bad, if scandals of politicians' corruption came in public, although they used to do behind doors..but the level of shamelessness we see, in politicians, post 2008 was not seen earlier..also there were not frequent cases like memogate and dawn leaks earlier.. There were incidents once in a blue moon..but not as frequent.. Again...thanks to NRO setup, because they know, tht they can get away with anything...and who brought NROed democracy..yes...army and international establishments..not the people of Pakistan

Ok...if it not army's responsibility to correct evils in Pakistan, and should be done, through democratic means... Was bringing And enforcing NRO after deal with international powerbrokers...responsibility of army? Ye unka kaam tha? How can army even say tht correcting evils is not our job...so their job was only to enforce NRO upon us? And when people of Pakistan are helpless today, cant free oursleves of this nro system, as there is no instituition to listen to us, army says..its not our job?

Why dont they once and for all free us, from clutches of NRO..us ke baad hum nahi bulayein ge.... But it is their MORAL and ETHICAL duty to free us, from NRO setup, since they themselves brought it upon us...

And which democratic means are u talking abt, through which we can eradicate democratic virus? Care to explain? Judiciary? Do i even need to say anything abt tht today?

Will be replying to your other points too

 

[The Eagle]

And which democratic means are u talking abt, through which we can eradicate democratic virus? Care to explain? Judiciary? Do i even need to say anything abt tht today?

After the NRO, why people keep electing them while being aware of NROed. The people elected them again & again. They are NROed but who voted. By that definition, people do not want to change as whatever is thrown at them, people accept it rather than throwing it back. Simple and precise, it was not shoved down the throats. Let me share a story of Awam.

A King once wanted to test the dignity,moral and self respect among the people. Intentionally, the King, announced to impose an illegal tax on farming as one coin while going to the fields and one on return so if people are still awaken, in senses and having the moral, will ultimately claim about injustice but none did it. Then after King announced that whosoever going for farming to the fields etc, will have to pay 2 coins while going and 2 on return to home in evening after filed work then few days passed but none complained.

King thought, may be it is due to my reputation and people belief/trust upon me that they are not complaining for the illegal coins payment as they people are rich enough due to good governance. So after few days, king announced that while going to the fields, the farmer would be lashed once and sit back that now, definitely people are going to complain and oppose such injustice but nothing happened of such sort. Further, king once again ordered to lash the farmers twice as once while going to the farming while one on return. After couple of days, King received a message by the people through a representative about the injustice. King smiled and rejoiced for a while that Yes, people are still alive and their moral is high that they will oppose the injustice.

So the day came and the representative arrived at the palace. King hiding his smile, asked the person about the reason of visit. The representative started with praising the King and then mentioned all the happenings from the start with Coin to Lashes. King, expecting the burst of a voice for the rights, calmly asked to go ahead. So the man lastly said, we never complained about whatever the great King ordered but since the day, as we have to be lashed, there is only one man to the job and it takes more time to lash all the farmers which is waste or daytime and we are unable to do the necessary farming in daylight so your highness is hereby requested that kindly double the soldiers to lash so that we can go to the fields and come back home as quickly as possible.

Alas, the King was dead internally and could feel that people were without any moral to oppose the injustice hence would accept any master for them to be slaved as.

Just wanted to share.

 

[Farah Sohail]

@Farah Sohail

Dawn Leak is already under investigation and concerned officials are conducting the enquiry. However, by pushing the COAS to take over or break the chain in hurry to punish the culprit, will be like giving a life line and let them be called again Political Martyrs (Siyasi Shaheed).

One must keep in mind, ISI is not some public service department that has to make an appearance on every issue. There are rules and SOPs defined to curb down the threats which depends on priority list. Other departments are here to serve the public and to be openly in contact with Public as well though they are under the command of ruling elite hence couldn't expect much.

Ok... Lets talk abt dawn leaks now...

Investigation? Hmmmm.... Last week, it was disclosed in media..tht dawn leaks committee has completed their work, they have interviewed everyone...and they will be submitting their report this week... If u remember, they were given 1 month time..and it was to be submitted now....and it was said tht they have completed their work, and they will be submitting this week...cyril was also back in Pakistan and was grilled by the committee...

However...this is not the end of story... Theres ANOTHER TWIST now.. Today, its reported in media, tht (somehow, all of a sudden, after finishing its work last week, ) NOW the committee has aked for more time, from interior ministry..they have written letter to interior ministry today and tht they need more time (?) good... Cool... U know the meaning of asking more time, when apparently all work was done? Matti pao(?) till people forget abt the case, and no one remembers..and just like..report of all other commissions in history has never been submitted, or made public..this one adds to the list too..... So, they will keep taking time, and its report will never be submitted... So matti pao..

So keep waiting for the proper procedure..and following SOPs.. The only result , following procedures in this case..will bring....is MATTI. PAO...because report firstly will never be submitted or made public, or if by any chance, it is....its findings will also be matti pao, tht we could find any source, of who did it...

And yes, Parvez Rashid is back too... Congrats

U also said..tht people are the real power that can make any ruler or department to change course in the right direction...ermm..when has tht ever been the case in Pakistan? How are people supposed to bring change, when no instituition listens, and one thing tht every instituition does, is to shift responsibility?

When has ever govts come in Pakistan genuinely through people's power? As i said this NRO setup is not brought by people but by Army and international establishment..

And when judiciary doesnt perform, army says..its not our job, elections are rigges, people are illietrate, because the ruling elite never put in place, a sound educational system in Pakistan, to make people literate, how are people the feal power and supposed to bring change? Should we just go around and start killing people, who we think as corrupt? Because in the current enario...this is ghe only option left for Pakistan to bring change... You can see results of Imran khan's struggle today... He tried every constituitional option, yet failed

So the only option left for people of Pakistan is to start killing every one.. Maybe we should go around Parliament house, and just start randomly killing people