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'Declare FATA Part of Afghanistan War': US Think-Tank

Exactly and that is why pakistan needs to do everything in its power to stop from another front being opening towards Pakistan.


The day this plan is executed letting the amercians into FATA, i dare say would be the end of Pakistan. Why dont we people understand that nothing of this sort was ever happening inside Pakistan before WOT, what changed after that, isnt it obvious that if anything that is false flag is the US let WOT and nothing else. WHy do we forget everytime when supporting this war is that havent we provided evidence to the US about India's involvement into FATA and to destabilize Pakistan, what happened? Nothing.

It should be clear by now who is the US supporting and why and Pakistan is considered as a hurdle in achieving that goal and the sooner it is removed ther better it would be for the Indo/US nexus. Musharraf although late but realized this and that is why he was trying to step back, during his last years, the relationship between Afghanistan and pakistan went sore, same stands for the US because he was constantly resisting to let any boots over the Pakistani soil.

Americans have penetrated so much so into pakistan and their involvement in the internal matters of Pakistan that as soon as PM fired duurani, the US ambassador called on the president and the meeting started to discuss the situation of his firing, even the PM was not there, he joined in latter. Now let me ask, does any sensible mind is able to give just one logic as to why we felt the need to brief the US ambassador over an internal matter of firing someone. But then again this did not happen in one day, we allowed the americans to get involved to this extent and every political party and the times of martial law is responsible for that, from the time we decided to go against the soviets up till now and is still going on and the end result will be devastating for Pakistan. Pakistanis as a Nation have slept enough closing their eye to everything hoping that the nightmare will end but for this nightmare to end the Nation has to do something and if we didnt even at this stage, then Khuda he hafiz ha Pakistan ka. :tsk:
 
The Pakistanis better take control of their own territory,fix their own house FAST!or your pride and the nukes too will be lost soon.
 
every pakistani knows the reality. every pakistani knows how patriotic pashtuns are but its quite obvious when u go and destroy their houses, effect their business, kill their ppl (willingly or unwillingly) wat are they gonna think what gud is their own army for??? its not the pakistanis who lack the will, its our leaders who either dont understand the situation or may be dont want to understand the situation. they are busy gettin democracy awards from western world, which is not sincere to pakistan. if God forbid Pakistan looses NWFP, Pakistan would loose everything. Our beauty (nature), our pride (pathans) and obviously our security will be gone. I am a punjabi but when someone dares my country i say we have got pathans to defend us. dont remember ever naming punjabis or sindhis.
 
US can go to hell, as if i care.

I only care about the peoples of this country, Declaring FATA a part of war will give USA a free hand to demonstrate its open state terrorism, & will result in Killing more Pakistanis,
only message i want to give to us is that .
"JUST STAY THE HELL OUT OF OUR BUSINESS, WE HAVE ALREADY SUFFERED TOO MUCH BCOZ OF YOU"



Regards
PRimeX

Well don't Blame the Earth for everything because you are born here..!!! Its you who are responsible for your own trimuph.. success and faliures.. So interospect and see whether at all we have gone wrong anywhere..!! If we blindly believe what we do is ALL right.. then somebody else have to do your job. just as americans pounding on your soil..!! Which i hate of america(which meddles in everyone's business) but a fact is a fact..and we gotta accept that..!!!
 
Well don't Blame the Earth for everything because you are born here..!!! Its you who are responsible for your own trimuph.. success and faliures.. So interospect and see whether at all we have gone wrong anywhere..!! If we blindly believe what we do is ALL right.. then somebody else have to do your job. just as americans pounding on your soil..!! Which i hate of america(which meddles in everyone's business) but a fact is a fact..and we gotta accept that..!!!

the question is who is creating that mess? where was all this mess few yrs back? wat can u justify more, americans invading ur country for an attack which still needs to be proven or pathans defending their homeland by challenging the invaders?? its spilling into pakistan from afghanistan and therefore it needs to be cleared from there first.
pakistan factor is only 5 to 7% responsible for wat is happenin in afghanistan. what about the other more than 90%.
Question for those who blame pakistan for everything:
we kill many afghans, uzbeks, and other foreign fighters everday. they are all comin from via afghanistan. y doesnt invading forces in afghanistan stop them from comin into pakistan???? well they cry a lot when the same ppl + some pakistanis go back to afghanistan and fight against these intruders.....
 
the question is who is creating that mess? where was all this mess few yrs back? wat can u justify more, americans invading ur country for an attack which still needs to be proven or pathans defending their homeland by challenging the invaders?? its spilling into pakistan from afghanistan and therefore it needs to be cleared from there first.
pakistan factor is only 5 to 7% responsible for wat is happenin in afghanistan. what about the other more than 90%.
Question for those who blame pakistan for everything:
we kill many afghans, uzbeks, and other foreign fighters everday. they are all comin from via afghanistan. y doesnt invading forces in afghanistan stop them from comin into pakistan???? well they cry a lot when the same ppl + some pakistanis go back to afghanistan and fight against these intruders.....
I believe if FATA areas are more under control by the government then you could have prevented these terrorists from afghanistan(the talibans) finding a safe heaven there and launch attacks on your country as well as other countries..!!! You should have pushed these non state factors out of pakistan.. from that area..!!! I may be right or wrong..!! But these are the reports comming in our media..!!!
 
I believe if FATA areas are more under control by the government then you could have prevented these terrorists from afghanistan(the talibans) finding a safe heaven there and launch attacks on your country as well as other countries..!!! You should have pushed these non state factors out of pakistan.. from that area..!!! I may be right or wrong..!! But these are the reports comming in our media..!!!

You can believe whatever you want, seriously no one cares, and moreover dont pretend like you know whats going on, believe me you dont even have the slightest of clue of whats going on there, so before coming out with i believe this, i believe that sort of crap, i'll suggest you worry more about whats happening in India. What we need to do, we certainly dont need an indian advice over the issue.
 
You can believe whatever you want, seriously no one cares, and moreover dont pretend like you know whats going on, believe me you dont even have the slightest of clue of whats going on there, so before coming out with i believe this, i believe that sort of crap, i'll suggest you worry more about whats happening in India. What we need to do, we certainly dont need an indian advice over the issue.

Well if you want to remain hostile.. yeah remain.. nonne cares..!!! What i was suggesting was our understanding that i have from our own media and material available to us.!!! and it was not intended to blame any body...!!! Every comment from us is taken in an hostile manner..!!!:tsk: If you have any opposite arrgument you could have said that..and i thought this forum is a constructive platform for exchange of ideas.. and thought it can help to clear most of the MIS INFORMATION we have about each other..!!! But your reply sucks man..!!!!!!:tsk:
 
But your reply sucks man..!!!!!!:tsk:

My reply may suck but not more then you Indians and specially the type of impression that most of you try to make here, claiming to be the good guys.:disagree:

As for your media, dont make me laugh.
 
My reply may suck but not more then you Indians and specially the type of impression that most of you try to make here, claiming to be the good guys.:disagree:

As for your media, dont make me laugh.

Brother..!!! Trying to make an Impression..!!! Yeah I thought we are gonna get 1 million for being good boys here..!!!! Well the cancer have reached your brains man..!!! You have learned to hate india irreversabilly..!!! Forget it..!!! Its not worth while in responding to your comments..!!! so i am leaving it as it is, I.e Pathetic... Period.
 
I believe if FATA areas are more under control by the government then you could have prevented these terrorists from afghanistan(the talibans) finding a safe heaven there and launch attacks on your country as well as other countries..!!! You should have pushed these non state factors out of pakistan.. from that area..!!! I may be right or wrong..!! But these are the reports comming in our media..!!!

i will slightly agree with u over this. GoP should have strong control over FATA. but there is some history u should know. if u go back to 1947, partition only took place on eastern front of todays pakistan. nothing really got changed on our western front. people living on our western border voted for pakistan and at the same time they were promised that gov wont interfere in their tribal customs. britishers tried to bring them within their domain but failed miserably. these ppl have been living lik this for centuries now. this lack of gov intervention obviously meant lack of gov control.

Another thing is that most of the ppl in pakistan supported them to go to afghanistan and fight against USSR. mainly bec USSR was seen as an invading force and today same goes for US. not only ppl from FATA but also from other parts of pakistan went to afghanistan to fight against US after 9/11. we dont see this as afghanis gettin killed. we see it as muslims gettin killed. ppl had already turned against the gov when she decided to support US in their invasion. later situation worsened when GoP started stoppin ppl from goin to afghanistan. later when US started barking coz of her failure in afghanistan, GoP came under pressure and sent army into FATA to kill our own ppl. this is when ppl started retaliating. now here when the situation got really worse intelligence agencies found some of the indian factors also involved. here pakistanis believe that indian are taking adv by fueling the situation (lets not fight over that in this thread). now was the time when suddenly 'pakistani taliban' came into the scene from no where. these pakistani talibans which included more foreign fighters and less pakistanis started fighting pakistan army and attackin gov instalations later targetin civilians as well. situation is a lot more complex and includes many stake holders.
1: afghan talibans
2: there are pakistanis who are/were? goin to afghanistan to fight against US whom we see as invaders (killing muslims) just lik USSR.
3: fighters coming from outside pakistan + some pakistanis and fighting against pakistan

now majority in pakistan (including me) sees 1 and 2 as jehadis and is of the view that their action can be justified. problem is with 3.
the reason being in afghanistan US along with her allies is killing muslims whereas in pakistan it is 3 which is involved in killing muslims.

the problem bw pak army and US led forces in afghanistan is that pak army wants to deal 3 first and then 2. but US wants to deal with 2 first and then may be 3. one thing which Both US and Pak is that they cant take on both 2 and 3 at the sametime. pak cant allow US to step in coz of americans old habbits of medling into pak security affairs. US comin in will be a direct threat to our neuclear weapons and to the federation as well. also bec of the indian factor found involved, pak believes its india which is funding 3 as no other funding source can be found. Pak wants US to stop india from doin that and for that purpose evidence of indian involvemetn was provided to US many time.

Now pak says: US is not doin enough to stop indians from fuelin the situation and is also not stopping foreign militants from enterin pak,
US on the otherhand says: Pak is not doin enough to get rid of 2.
This is only creating trust gap bw the two, who wants to handle situation in a different fashion according to their own priorities.
with media under US control, world is only allowed to listen to wat US is sayin therefore seein pakistan as some evil country.
 
Out of touch with reality somewhat. Recent indicators for social ecomonics & security development:

AFP: Iraq boosts security ahead of landmark elections

The Associated Press: Iraq's 08 oil revenues about $60 billion

The Associated Press: Iraq sends 30,000 troops to guard Karbala pilgrims


Observe the Black Knights, Op Sond Chara:

BBC NEWS | UK | UK forces take key Taleban bases

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At the going down of the sun and in the morning.......

what kind of world r u living in?
even americans accept their losing positions in afghanistan and iraq
 
Oh absolutely. As I said, it's really hard for the people to understand whose side Army is, when they see these foreign fighters, as well as Army, doing the same thing to their livlihood. I mean the bomb that falls down from a jet, doesn't know the difference between a militant or a civilian.

Dr. Khalil Ur Rahman (Bajaur) said in his interview, the army helicopter came upon their caravan going out of the village, and they all stopped, came out, raised their hands in the air to show to the helicopter pilot that they are not militants. The chopper came back and fired two missiles, killing all but a few from around 40 ppl, among them Dr. Khalil Ur Rahman's only son, who lost both of his legs.

Now entire NWFP knows how big of a patriot Khalil Ur Rahman is, he would kill you even if you say anything to Pakistan, and at the end of the interview, he said, what would I think of Pakistan, everytime I look at my son (who lost both legs). (I can provide the interview if someone wants).

Things like this only happened due to massive army operation, against and untagged enemy, which has no location, and everyone knows that in the Army, yet a massive bombing campaign had been held, resulting only by leaving bad taste in the mouth of people, who are already sick and tired of tyranny of militants, yet twice the more carnage they had to embrace due to operation, thats where they once protested to army and said leave us to talebans.

And you are dead on about how the militants are getting the weapon. I am sure Army wont be providing them to kill its own soldiers, so its coming from across the border. And who controls that side? obviously the Allies. Rest we all know who has the benefit in arming the militants against Pakistan.

And don't be fooled by the drug trade and taleban link. As a matter of fact, Drug trade in Afghanistan is entirely in the hands of CIA. (I can give you pages of evidence if you want on this matter).

And lastly, not only Swatyans, but entire NWFP/FATA knows that foreign agencies are involved. In Orakzai agency, tribes caught some Afghan policemen, who were released on Nanavatey (a tribal code of forgiveness) after they provided details about other fighters creating conflict between Shia and Sunnis, all trained by Indian consulate in Khost, for $2000/month.

They were paraded in the front of the media and were widely reported on local NWFP papers (not sure if other papers followed suit or not).

So locals must be supported in the effort to eradicate this foreign threat, instead of alienating them with such massive operations. But the problem is between the government and Army and the corruption. I personally see this from every angle as a trap for Army.

They are involving army in such actions by engaging them in a catch-22 situation. So there's a displeasure between civil society and the security agencies, before they can move in and defang the army by using the public unrest.

Hence my stand, Pakistan must not make this grave mistake by allowing the foreigners invading their country. It will, in a snap, alienate masses.

You are right and i would agree with you. The lashkers must be given all the support and heavy weaponry that is required and the people of Swat and Waziristan must make their own decisions because it is their regions that are struck by insurgency. Army operation is displacing people and resulting in curfews and problems for the local people. Kalashnikovs and kalikovs cannot defeat the militants with equipment coming from the indian embassies.

I heard the reports as well. This is one:

Indian intelligence network in Afghanistan main cause of destabilization in Pakistan

Akhtar Jamal


ISLAMABAD — According to informed sources Indian intelligence officials working in the disguise of diplomats in Embassy and Consulates in Afghanistan have set up a vast network to destablise FATA, Northern Areas and Baluchistan engaging dozens of Afghan-Indians, drug dealers and Afghan warlords.


According to sources several agents hired by the RAW but captured recently in FATA, Waziristan and Southern Eastern areas have provided extensive details claiming that the Indian had managed to penetrate deeply in collaboration with Indian allies in the region.


According to one spy who was recently killed by Taliban an Indian intelligence official named as C.R. Garg working as Attaché and P.S. to Indian Ambassador in Kabul had recently offered as much as US$2000-3200 per foreigner killed in Pakistan.


The spy was given a telephone number for urgent contacts. Another Indian senior official named as Malkit Chand also working as Third Secretary (Education) & Director (Indian Cultural Center) was engaged in transferring Pakistani Baluch students from Afghanistan to India for special training and financial assistance. Baluchi students particularly the children of Baluch refugees are being offered upto US200-300 per month if they agree to proceed to India.


Chandra Mohan Mishra a Third Secretary at Indian Embassy in Kabul and J. Baby working as an Attaché (Technical) have also held several meetings with Blauch militants during mid-2008.


Other Indian intelligence officials engaged in financing and sending Pakistani youths from tribal areas to several other Central Asian states and Middle East are posted in Consulate General of India, Mazar-i-Sharif are Dinesh Behari working as a Consul and D. N. Dutta working as a Vice Consul in Mazar-i-Sharif. Two spies recently arrested in tribal areas were carrying Thuraya satellite phone numbers 00-873-763095858 and 00-873-763095867 and 0700501385 which belonged to Indian intelligence officials inside Afghanistan.


Another Indian agents Sanjay Asthana working as Vice Consul in Habibabad,, Jallalabad was in touch with his “assets” using phone/fax number of 0797638744.


An Indian official based in Herat, Manohar Gangesh working as Consul and posted at the Indian Consulate. He was in contact with local agents who organize secret meetings and trainings for so-called Islamic militants.

A militant leader claimed that he discovered the telephone number of a senior Indian intelligence official Raju Balakrishnan working as a diplomat and Vice Consul in Herat 0799427738 from the possession of a recently captured spy after his detailed interrogation.


According to a reliable sources early this year Indian agents working as Muslim militant leaders by the name of Yasin Khan (Original Indina name Amat Verma) and “Nasir” identified as “Santosh” were operating a massive network of terrorists in Jallalabad while another so-called “Islamic militant leader (original name Sudesh ) was also had been operating in Khost. Local Afghan commanders, drug dealers and military commanders of foreign country were well aware of their activities but overlooking the covert operations against Pakistan.

And another... so well know whats going on in tribal areas and swat. Fazlullah is an indian agent. He must be killed:

Indian RAW & Afghan NSD proxy behind FATA Baluch unrest
by Moin Ansari

What was being whispered in the corridors of power, the streets of Pakistan and the blogosphere is open being openly discussed by the media and the press statements of one of the most important confidantes of Mr. Zardari. The statement by Mr. Rehman Malik is a bold step for the compliant PPPP govenment who is willing to accept any and all conditions set on the sovreignty of Pakistan by their masters in the land of the Dollar. The despised Mr. Haqqani might as well be the US ambassador to Pakistan. Surely he has shown no interest in defending Pakistani rights in Washington.

Indian and Afghan units are openly supporting anti-Pakistan elements in Baluchistan and Sarhad and thre is no condemnation of this aggession either by the international or the domestic media.

The dispicable act of instituting an inquiry into the Kabul embassay bombing is abomanable if not connected to an inquiry into the bombing of the Pakistani consulate in Afghanistan.

Malik blames Afghanistan, India for Fata unrest By Our Correspondent

WASHINGTON, July 30: India and Afghanistan are stirring troubles in Fata and Balochistan, Rehman Malik, adviser to the prime minister on interior, told journalists on Wednesday.
Mr Malik also blamed India for indulging in “baseless propaganda” against Pakistan although Pakistan itself was a victim of terrorism.

“The time has come for us to reveal the facts and tell the world how outside forces are creating troubles in Pakistan.”

When pressed to identify the outside forces, he named India, Afghanistan’s Northern Alliance, Chechens and Uzbeks who he said were using Pakistan to serve their vested interests.
“India,” he said, “wants to destabilise Fata. What India and (Afghan President) Mr Karzai are doing must stop. They must stop this. They must stop this.”

He also appealed to Pakistan’s western allies, including the United States, to stop India and Afghanistan.

Although Pakistan has always blamed foreign hands for stirring troubles in Balochistan and the NWFP, this is the first time since the Feb 18 election that a senior government official has directly blamed India.

Mr Malik said that India and Afghanistan had direct links to people like Barhamdagh Bugti and “one call from outside leads to the death of four people in Balochistan”.

Asked if his statement was on the record, he said: “Yes, I am not afraid of anyone.”

Rethinking the post-9/11 strategy
Analysts debate the rhetoric of war as part of the fight against terrorism.
By Alexandra Marks | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
August 1, 2008 edition

Reporter Alexandra Marks discusses the debate among analysts over how to fight terrorism.

New York - During the seven years since 9/11 there hasn’t been a successful terrorist attack within the United States.

And Al Qaeda, the terrorist organization responsible for the downing of the World Trade Center, has been pushed back in Iraq where it continues to lose support.

But the core of Al Qaeda continues to thrive, according to security analysts, who note it has increased the number of attacks worldwide since 9/11 as well as its geographic reach.

Those facts have led to two starkly different assessments of where the United States stands in its fight against terror – as well as sharp disagreement on the strategy needed as the country goes forward.

This week the RAND Corp. sparked renewed debate about the nation’s strategy when it released a report done for the Defense Department that concluded that the so-called “war on terror” has so far failed to significantly undermine Al Qaeda’s capabilities. It suggested it was time for “fundamentally rethinking post-Sept. 11 US counterterrorism strategy.”

A top recommendation is to replace the phrase “war on terror” with the more low-key term counterterrorism.

“Terrorists should be perceived and described as criminals, not holy warriors, and our analysis suggests that there is no battlefield solution to terrorism,” says Seth Jones, the study’s lead author. “With the growing number of attacks and an expansive reach, one could argue [Al Qaeda] is even growing stronger.”

That assessment prompted derision among some conservative security analysts who contend the “war on terror” is being waged successfully and should continue as is.

They argue that the number of terrorist attacks around the world has actually been declining since 2003. The only reason US intelligence assessments indicate an increase is because they include terrorist attacks in Iraq. These analysts argue those should be categorized as war crimes, not terrorist attacks.

“We are winning the war on terror, in fact we’ve almost won the war on terror,” says the Heritage Foundation’s James Jay Carafano.

“Terrorist attacks have been declining since 2003,” he says. If you look at the polling numbers on [Osama] bin Laden … they’re way down in the Islamic world. Essentially, the only thing left to be done is to get into Pakistan and root out the tribal areas” where Bin Laden is thought to be hiding.

Security experts who favor a change in antiterrorism strategy agree there have been some successes in the fight against Al Qaeda, particularly in Iraq. But they disagree with Mr. Carafano’s analysis on several fronts. First, they contend it’s important to look at the number of attacks carried out by Al Qaeda and its sympathizers separately from other global terror attacks. That’s because most international terrorist attacks are not targeted at the United States, while destroying the US remains one of Al Qaeda’s primary goals.

“Measuring the total number of terrorist attacks globally from a US national security perspective is meaningless because most of those groups are not targeting the United States,” says Jones.

He and other analysts also contend that Al Qaeda has been pushed back successfully in parts of Iraq specifically because the military has begun employing more law-enforcement type strategies there.

“To be effective against terrorism in many ways requires the same things that are needed to be effective against crime. It’s knowing neighborhoods, good intelligence, and on the ground information – exactly the kind of information we lacked in Iraq the first three years of the operation,” says Gary LaFree, director of the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START) at the University of Maryland.

But Professor LaFree says criminology is not a perfect metaphor for dealing with terrorism, either.

“This is what’s so difficult about terrorism: it’s a blend of political and just plain old criminal justice stuff,” he says.

That political element is one of the things that prompts Frank Cilluffo, the director of the Homeland Security Policy Institute at George Washington University to argue strongly against using the phrase “war on terror.” Like Jones, he believes the phrase plays into Al Qaeda’s own political narrative as holy warriors and thus gives them legitimacy.

“The adversary’s real center of gravity is its narrative and we have to find ways to facilitate it falling on its own weight,” says Professor Cilluffo. He agrees with the Heritage’s Carafano that Al Qaeda is indeed losing some popular support in the Muslim world.

But Cilluffo believes Al Qaeda itself is responsible for that.

“Al Qaeda has made its colors very clear – people see it for what it is: a violent ideology that will kill anything and everything in its way to meet its so-called objective,” he says. “It’s unraveling. Even some of the intellectual thinkers [within the movement are] peeling away the justification and credibility of Al Qaeda’s narrative.”

Jones and others also note that most major Western countries have already abandoned the notion of a war on terror, including Great Britain.

“The British have long since dropped any reference to a war on terror, in part because of their long standing experience fighting the [Irish Republican Army],” says Jones. “Where they became increasingly successful is when they started using Special Branch – their counter terrorism police force - as well as MI-5, their domestic intelligence service. It’s the use of those two actors together that really helped penetrate the IRA not the military.”

The Heritage’s Carafano believes the debate about “shifting the rhetoric” is already old and will have little impact on a war that he contends is already almost won.

But Carafano does agree with the other analysts on one other point: The threat posed by Al Qaeda is still present and the country cannot let down its guard.

“We could easily have another event. We don’t want to blow it out of proportion – we want to keep things in perspective,” says LaFree. “It’s great we haven’t had another attack, but we’re still not out of the woods.”
 
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