Debate this : Obama fears Pakistan’s disintegration

[lem34]

If pakistan attacks Israel or India , then we will witness worlds largest can of whoop-***.

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I agree with a lot of what you say. But the suggestion by me wasn't that Pakistan does that but just the thought of that will make Americans think 10 times. I mean the Israel btw. Yes vengeance would strike. But it would not bring back Israel and would reduce an already small Jewish population further. Its meant to be the unthinkable so as to deter

 

[Yeti]

they were discharged years ago and had no existing affiliation with the army or the navy....given how disgruntled they were, they shared knowledge of the base with terrorists...it was a one-off incident

it was also done to provoke a reaction by Pakistan


this thread is pointless...Pakistan will only act aggressively if it is attacked. It has no regional ambitions. I wish i could say the same about some other countries

No country would like to start a nuclear war for one thing we share borders with you and a nuclear winter would be a disaster for all parties.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

ive never advocated their use.....they arent ******* toys

 

[Avatar]

A stable, prosperous and mature Pakistan that respects all its neighbors is in India's best interests.
A weak and suicidal nuclear Pakistan is one of India's biggest threat, and no victory is worth the mayhem that shall follow.
Pakistan does not need/have to disintegrate, it just needs better leaders who have real power. The army/ISI have become too dominant to allow this, and this is the issue that needs to be addressed.
In Humanity's best interests, all nations must strive to eliminate terrorism and harmful ideologies from its roots, no matter where the roots lie. Let us all live happily and let others live happily with what we have instead of fighting and losing everything for what we will never have.

 

[Avatar]

Why not. Tel Aviv dictates to AIPAC dictates to America dictates to Nato.

Decapitation

You, my friend, are too far away from rationality.

What bad have the Jewish folks ever done to you that you wish to annihilate the only home they have, even as your own nation faces its worst phase in history ?

I know somewhere inside you something feels good to write about flattening Tel Aviv, it's not entirely your fault.

Know that the vessel that houses the flame is the first burn. Just like that, our own negativity is the cause of our problems.

Instead of envying or hating the Israelis, get inspired from them and try to emulate the success of 5 million of their people in the 150+ million Pakistanis, and you will far surpass the desire to flatten them.

 

[Hyperion]

And the thread is effectively dead! People have discussed everything, other than what I intended.
The only thing I intended out of the whole debate was how to best avoid the scenario of invasion and war!

 

[Hyperion]

I seriously want to beat the crap out of you and your avatar. What year is it? 1985?

Ask Brajesh Mishra.

 

[DrNSAID]

I seriously want to beat the crap out of you and your avatar. What year is it? 1985?

Take a ticket and get in line, tool.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

And the basis for this astronomically intelligent analysis is ?

Its was actually, the Indian Govt thinking during Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

If Pakistan was attacked by Soviets, the next India would face serious security consequences.

 

[The Deterrent]

If and only IF, there is CREDIBLE information about a missing Pakistani Nuclear weapon, which is CONFIRMED by Pakistani authorities (SPD), only then Pakistan should join hands with US forces to hunt the missing nuke down and retrieve it ASAP.

However, this is not possible. Pakistan doesn't possesses thousands of nukes to lose the count, and the security measures are way too strong for anyone to move a leg. Even if it does, SPD forces have enough ability to retrieve it before the news of the incident leaks out.

On the other hand, if US stages a false flag operation, and insists that there is a broken arrow, despite the all the denying from Pakistani side, Pakistan has all the reasons to threaten (physically) the use of nuclear weapons against US and her interests in the region. This should be enough for US to reconsider, and not repeat the Iraq mistake.

 

[ice_man]

I think the word disintegrate is slightly dramatic, but we seem to be doing our very best to achieve this, and are very much on that path. I think the nuclear weapons are the focus here, when the real focus should be the fact we're sliding into chaos on so many levels and how we can arrest that decline, if not reverse it.

Our economy is in a real poor state. All indicators point to a bleak picture where we're heading towards bankruptcy. Next year, we have to pay the IMF $3.2 billion, and we don't have a dollar spare.

The energy crisis is at its most acute, and worse than anything I've ever known. I spoke to my uncle in Wah Cantt on Sunday, and he said that there's 3-4 hours loadshedding at a time. This is Wah, an area where load shedding was unheard of because of the infrastructre to cater for the defence industry.

The political turmoil continues and is a complete joke. There is no democracy but feudals and mafia men in power. There is no confidence from the electorate, nor is there any confidence from the business community or foreign investors.

The judiciary seems intent on pursuing cases for point-scoring purposes, but doesn't achieve any notable convictions. Which politician, general or businessman of any real note has been convicted of corruption or sent to jail in the past 4.5 years? How much have the lower and local courts improved? They've continued to worsen and the pace of justice has come to a complete halt.

The law and order whether it's terrorism or sectarian related is dire. Murder, rape and lawlessness continues to thrive. As one relative told me when I asked him about kidknappings etc, "it happens during the day, there is no fear of the police or anyone".

Water management and our policies to improve this have been non-existant, with little preparation for the impending crisis we will see here in the next 10-20 years.

Our ever-increasing population, lack of family-planning education and the strain this places on natural resources will again see negative results, if not already.

Our huge defence expenditure, coupled with debt-servicing consumes around 60% of our budget. What do we have to give towards public development when this is the situation? The rupee against sterling sits at Rs.147, FDI declines, ex-pats refuse to come back to visit Pakistan, inflation surges, job creation dwindles, state industries dying, corruption prospers, crime is rampant.

This is the state of Pakistan today, and some may say that disintegration is well on course. The nukes will be safe, don't you worry about that. There is an incredible level of security around them, which spread to multiple layers.

It's just a shame that the Pakistani nation can't enjoy the same level of comfort, security, maintenance and peace as those WMD's.

truly you are amazing TROLL in disguise!


but let me assure you pakistan is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than it was 4 years ago! you may ask how! here is how :

1) BB died and Pakistan seemed to be breaking any second!

However, here we are today mashAllah doing fine without her and without Bhuttos!

2) Taliban sucidie attacks were everywhere in every city! & Lal Masjid had just happened:

however, today besides a few far apart incidents the taliban issue is almost under control no major strikes like the marriot bombings or lal masjid type incidents! or TAKE OVER of SWAT!


3) Judiciary was in jail & there was no law & order ecept a few handful of YES MEN:

today we have free judicary that is not afraid to laty hands on PMs and Presidents & dual nationals or even ARMY CHIEF for that matter. and not to mention MILLIONS of PAKISTANIS with issues ranging from divorce cases to land cases are getting justice!

as for electrcity & economy meltdown:

well what do you say about greece or double dip recession of UK or hell the slowing down of Chinese or Indian economies?

look YES pakistan has economic meltdown YES it has electrcity shortfall BUT that is not what breaks a country! it can be addressed! it will be addresed when a new leader comes into office in islamabad!

to be honest Zardari hasn't lived up to his corrupt standards i feel!! i expected much worse from him!


so stop trolling and appreciate the GOOD before you jump the gun. I am not saying we are perfect but we are better than we were in 2008 in terms of other crises besides ECONIMIC woes!

 

[Maritimer]

And the thread is effectively dead! People have discussed everything, other than what I intended.
The only thing I intended out of the whole debate was how to best avoid the scenario of invasion and war!

Ideal scenario for India would be a peaceful Pakistan where it's State works for the welfare of the ordinary Pakistani citizens.

On the question of how to avoid the worst case scenario (nuking everybody), Pakistan has to give up its support to the 'good' terrorists, increase trade relations with India and Afghanistan and make sure that US/ NATO never have to come back to this region again once they leave.

 

[DGMO]

truly you are amazing TROLL in disguise!

Ah, the standard answer to anyone who dares speak the truth, "you're a troll". I was reading something today, and it so very much applies to you:

Pakistani cricket journalist Osman Samiuddin in last year's Wisden: 'In Pakistan, never underestimate the power of denial and the vividness of delusion which stems from it.'​

1) BB died and Pakistan seemed to be breaking any second!

However, here we are today mashAllah doing fine without her and without Bhuttos!

Breaking at any second? Where do you get these ridiculous 'facts' from? How can the death of a woman lead to the break-up of a country of 180 million? Where many didn't care for her? Don't over dramatise the situation, as any sane individual on this forum, or in Pakistan will tell you that was not the case.

Doing fine masha'Allah? What, with the 22 hour load shedding and all the other ills I've mentioned. Is that your definition of doing fine? How about asking those in the villages where I hail from how they're doing now compared to 5-7 years ago? As I've done that on all my visits to Pakistan recently, and I know what the answer to that is. No one has known hell like they're experiencing right now. The inflation levels are unprecedented, their misery is like nothing they've known before.

2) Taliban sucidie attacks were everywhere in every city! & Lal Masjid had just happened:

however, today besides a few far apart incidents the taliban issue is almost under control no major strikes like the marriot bombings or lal masjid type incidents! or TAKE OVER of SWAT!

Well, given we took on the PT and have drones firing missles daily killing the likes of Ilyas Kashmiri and others, it's no surprise that a force of 80k troops is having some success in quelling the surge of the PT. They've been pushed back, the pressure has been incessant, but we're still hearing of our soldiers being beheaded. Therefore, the issue and problem remains. Peshawar just experienced a bomb attack killing 19 last week, attacks are constant in Quetta and Balouchistan as a whole. Stability isn't there, and it's a problem we're trying to deal with.

3) Judiciary was in jail & there was no law & order ecept a few handful of YES MEN:

today we have free judicary that is not afraid to laty hands on PMs and Presidents & dual nationals or even ARMY CHIEF for that matter. and not to mention MILLIONS of PAKISTANIS with issues ranging from divorce cases to land cases are getting justice!

More delusion. Judiciary that is free, or is politicised? I asked the question, who has been convicted of note? Whether that is from the govt, the opposition, the business leaders, the military, who? Why is Moonis Elahi walking free? Makhdoom Fahim living it large when he admitted to having Rs.40m in his back accounts and handing it back following the NICL scam? And now we have the CJP exposed for having a son that appears to be in the Zardari league of corruption. And all the while daddy didn't know about this. Yeah, sure, I believe that. But my concern isn't the games the Supreme Court plays on a daily basis. Their tamasha can continue. How is the common man benefiting? Millions of Pakistani's getting justice? Like my 7 year court case which dragged on despite having the necessary paperwork, but the opposing lawyer being closely connected? Or all the cases of the poor and vulnerable who are waiting for justice.

as for electrcity & economy meltdown:

well what do you say about greece or double dip recession of UK or hell the slowing down of Chinese or Indian economies?

What on earth has that got to do with the absence of governance, and rampant corruption that manifests itself in our country from top to bottom? How on earth can you compare those countries to us? I'm talking about policy making, planning, good governance - all things that are crucial to the success of a nation. We have shown none of it. We took 9 months to appoint a Finance Minister after the PPP came to power, 9 MONTHS!! Does that not mean anything to you? A country in dire straits on the economic front dragged out such an important and much needed portfolio because of POOR GOVERNANCE.

look YES pakistan has economic meltdown YES it has electrcity shortfall BUT that is not what breaks a country! it can be addressed! it will be addresed when a new leader comes into office in islamabad!

to be honest Zardari hasn't lived up to his corrupt standards i feel!! i expected much worse from him!

A new leader comes into office. Oh, you mean like Raja Rental? Or Pervez Elahi? Or Nawaz Sharif? Or Altaf Hussain? All reputable figures with sterling credentials. I'm sure they'll all turn the country around in a few months.

so stop trolling and appreciate the GOOD before you jump the gun.

The good??! Are you for real?? What is so good about our country right now? What facets should I be proud of? Because when I sit here and watch programmes like 'Jurm Bolta Hai' that document the nation we've become, then I have to wonder what good there is. Or like 3 weeks ago, when my cousin was on his way back from work, was ill, and fell unconcious. He woke next to his scooter to find that no one had helped him, but that someone took Rs.6,000 that he had in his pocket. Wah bhai wah, that is the good that's spreading right now.

But you can't see it, with your rose-tinted glasses on. Or perhaps you have your head buried so firmly in the sand, which just typifies the height of delusion.

 

[Storm Force]

Everybody and that includes INDIA wants a stable responsible pakistan.

It will encourage FDI and growth

BUT the world is fearful about a impolding Pakistan and some BIN LADEN MK2 type idiot with a nuke in his hand

its up to GOP to show this is far fetched and you people have control and a clear goal to engage the international community

 

[lem34]

Everybody and that includes INDIA wants a stable responsible pakistan.

It will encourage FDI and growth

BUT the world is fearful about a impolding Pakistan and some BIN LADEN MK2 type idiot with a nuke in his hand

its up to GOP to show this is far fetched and you people have control and a clear goal to engage the international community

there is no chance of Pakistan imploding. There are other countries with nukes who have got insurgencies worry about them.