Originally posted by Sid@Mar 10 2006, 05:22 PM
I don't even have to elaborate on this as the applied italics and bold point out clearly what is going on. Now you see the difference between Deccan Herald 'quoting' Janes Defence and giving 'detailed' info and other newspapers only outlining the story?
The others claimed that DCN had started design work on a PN submarine which is utterly false as Janes' report nullified that claim as is to be read here in the Deccan Herald. The design work was NOT started on a PN submarine but an independant submarine project 'Marlin' by DCN which the PN had shown interest in. The people in higher offices of Paris succumbing to pressure from Delhi turned down DCN's request to respond to PN's enquiries but at the same time this is an on-going process.
As stated PN has also invited proposals from Germany's HDW and Spain's Navantia so it is too early to say anything regarding this. Although it confirms my initial observation that no design work or any other work on a PN submarine has begun anywhere! First the PN has to decide which sub does it want and 'then' only can work begin in any form on that desired submarine.
[post=6923]Quoted post[/post]
Pakistan Seeks 3 Subs From France
New Design Would Free DCN of Spanish Partnership
By PIERRE TRAN, PARIS
Pakistani interest in three attack submarines is forcing France to make hard decisions over industrial interests vested in the DCN naval systems company and diplomatic and economic relations with Spain and India, analysts said.
Islamabad intends to spend $1 billion to $1.2 billion on three patrol submarines, preferably of a new design from DCN but possibly of the German 214 class, a Pakistani official said.
But the potential sale of high-tech weapons to Pakistan may be too much for the French government to swallow. The deal would steady employment at DCNââ¬â¢s Cherbourg sub yard, but would likely antagonize India, with whom Paris recently signed a defense agreement. New Delhi also is a submarine customer, having recently purchased six of DCNââ¬â¢s Scorpene attack subs.
The sale of an all-French design also might raise hackles in Spain. The Spanish are partners in building the Scorpene, but Spainââ¬â¢s Navantia yard is teaming with Lockheed Martin on its S-80 boat.
The Pakistani official said Islamabad ââ¬Åis interested in a single-hull submarine,ââ¬Â distinct from quieter, more expensive double-hulled boats. ââ¬ÅWe have made it known there is a requirement for three submarines.ââ¬Â
Islamabad wants a formal offer within six months from Armaris, the naval marketing joint venture of DCN and French systems house Thales, so it can order the subs within a year, the official said.
The country also is looking to buy 25 to 30 highly capable fighter aircraft, and is considering the Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and Saab JAS 39 Gripen, the official said. A Pakistani delegation is due to go to Italy next month to see the Typhoon go through flight trials, he said.
The pursuit of the Pakistan deal shows DCN wants to develop new subs for export.
ââ¬ÅThis is a logical move, given DCNââ¬â¢s strong installed base in SSKs [diesel-powered attack submarines] and the attractions of the SSK market,ââ¬Â said Sash Tusa, an analyst at brokerage Goldman Sachs.
But going it alone might be seen as undermining all the recent talk of building European defense, French government and industry executives said.
The submarine sale underlines the clash between industrial and diplomatic interests for France, an analyst said.
ââ¬ÅIndustry needs it, but the French government does not want to contribute to a potential arms race in the region and cannot afford to upset India,ââ¬Â said Loic Tribot La Spiere, chief executive of the think tank Centre dââ¬â¢Etude et Prospective Strategique.
French military ties with Pakistan date back three decades. The Pakistani Navy was an early export customer of DCNââ¬â¢s Daphne submarine in the mid-1960s, setting the bar for other navies that operated near the Persian Gulf. Pakistan bought three Agosta 90B boats, dubbed the Khalid class, in the mid-1990s. Pakistanââ¬â¢s Air Force has flown the French-built Dassault Mirage III and V fighters.
This longstanding relationship gives DCN an edge in the competition, the Pakistani official said.
ââ¬ÅWe know their processes, their procedures,ââ¬Â the official said.
Wanted: Export Approval
But if Paris withholds export approval, Pakistan might turn to the 214 submarine built by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW), part of Germanyââ¬â¢s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems. It also might consider buying the subs from China, he said.
DCN is keen to sell, but has had trouble prying export approval from the high-level Commission Interministérielle Dââ¬â¢exportation des Matériels de Guerre.
Officially, Armaris has not proposed a new submarine, because it lacks approval for an offer from the committee. But that did not prevent Armaris officials from making an informal product briefing on a DCN design to a Pakistani delegation led by a senior naval officer in mid-February, here.
The Pakistani official said delegation members were given to understand that DCN had been cleared by the export committee to make an offer. A French industry executive, however, said there is no offer because clearance has been withheld.
And a French defense official said, ââ¬ÅThe attitude towards Pakistan is a very cautious one, where great prudence is needed.ââ¬Â
Armaris declined comment. The Ministry of Defense spokesman was not immediately available. The Foreign Ministry and Prime Ministerââ¬â¢s office referred questions to the Ministry of Defense.
A DCN spokeswoman said the company did not discuss its clients and declined comment.
Still, the Pakistani official said his government expects a formal offer next month from Armaris.
DCNââ¬â¢s new design, code-named Marlin, closely resembles the 10-year-old Scorpene design, but would include newer technology, including features of the Barracuda nuclear attack boats to be built for the French Navy.
Marlin would have an air-independent propulsion (AIP) unit, the Pakistani official said. AIP, an alternative to batteries, allows longer periods of running submerged. Pakistanââ¬â¢s third and last Agosta boat is being fitted with a Mesma AIP system, and the two earlier boats will be retrofitted.
Pakistan has not asked for the Scorpene because it does not want to buy the same product as the Indian Navy.
DCN barely made any money on the Agosta deal, the French defense official said. He said it was unlikely the French government would agree to sell new subs at basement prices, the official said.
Pakistan said it got a bad deal because it paid $1.2 billion for the three subs, including a 50 percent down payment on signing in 1994, and the program is three years late.
Independence from Spain
If a Pakistan deal can be struck, DCN would regain the ability to export subs without Spanish participation.
In 1997, the French company partnered with Navantia predecessor Bazan to design the Scorpene because it lacked enough money to do it alone. But healthy sales have padded DCNââ¬â¢s cash accounts to some 2 billion euros ($2.4 billion), giving it enough money to invest in its own design.
Still, the Spanish connection was key to selling Scorpene to Chile, which opened up the Latin American market. But when Navantia installed a combat management system from Lockheed Martin, DCN officials took the rejection of a similar French system as a snub.
One French analyst said Navantiaââ¬â¢s purchase of the Lockheed system was influenced by the U.S. administration, which is seeking a way to keep its 2001 pledge to sell eight diesel subs to Taiwan. Since Spain has limited trade with China, Madrid could sell the S-80s to Taiwan with little economic consequences, the analyst said.
Into the balance must be thrown Franceââ¬â¢s relations with India, which has just bought six Scorpene subs armed with MBDA anti-ship missiles. French President Jacques Chirac visited India and signed a defense agreement on Feb. 19 aimed at boosting industrial cooperation, as well as a preliminary pact to help New Delhi develop civil nuclear energy.
During Chiracââ¬â¢s visit, Indiaââ¬â¢s state airline formally inked a purchase of 43 Airbus airliners, worth $2.5 billion at list price, and 15 ATR regional turboprops.
Dassault Aviation is waiting to see the terms of Indiaââ¬â¢s tender for 126 combat aircraft, and is ready to pitch the Rafale fighter jet, having withdrawn the Mirage 2000-5 from competition.
Christopher P. Cavas contributed to this report from Washington.