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Day i Declared my Best Friend Kafir to get Passport

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I am copying it from your official website

https://www.alislam.org/library/books/Truth-about-the-Split.pdf

So, what do you conclude when he is plainly saying anyone who has not entered into his bait is kafir and "OUT OF THE PALE OF ISLAM"??


“One kind of kufr is that a man does not at all believe in Islam, and he does not accept the Holy Prophet Mohammad as an Apostle of God.”

“The second kind of kufr is, for instance, that he does not believe in the Promised Messiah… Even after the whole case has been fully and duly put before him, he declines to believe in one, whose truth has been supported by the Holy Prophet, with great emphasis and insistence, and whose truth, moreover, is found to have been confirmed by the Scriptures of the earlier Prophets: Therefore, since he rejects the decision of the Apostle of God, and of Allah Himself, he becomes a kafir . When you look deeply at this question, the two kinds of kufrare found to be one and the same thing. There is really no room for doubt that in the eyes of the Lord, where the case has been fully and duly put before, a kafir of the first or the second kind, on the Day of the Qiyama, he will be held culpable. And. where, in the eyes of the Lord, the case has not yet come to be duly and fully stated, and the man is a mokazzib, or munkir, though the Sharia, based as it is on the exterior, also would pronounce that he is a kafir ; and we too shall hold he is a kafir . But in the eyes of the Lord, under His law that He does not burden anyone beyond capacity, the man in question will not be held culpable. All the same, it would not be for us to issue a decree for his release and salvation. His would be a matter strictly between himself and his Maker, wherein we have no standing, whatsoever.” (Haqiqatul Wahi, pages 179-180)

” It is evident from this statement itself that the people here I have in mind I take as Muslims. Therefore, when I use the word kafir, I have in my mind kafirs of the second kind which I have defined already, i.e., they are not driven or thrown out of the Millat. When I say they are outside the pale of Islam I have in my mind the view, by Mufradat-i-Raghib on page 240, where Islam has been shown to be of two kinds: one lower than the stage of Iman ; the other above the stage of Iman. In DunalIman, in the stage of lower than common Iman, are included people whose Islam remains at a level lower than a proper Iman and in the stage of higher than the common Iman are Muslims who stand at a level of distinction in their faith, higher than the common level. This is why I said that some people fall outside the pale of Islam, I had in my mind people who come under the category of Dunal Iman. There is an authentic Hadith in Mishkat as well, where the Holy Prophet said: `Whosoever helps a man who is unjust, he puts himself thereby out of the
pale of Islam.'”

“Moreover there is a great deal of difference between our definition of kufr and theirs. They understand by kufr to mean the denial of Islam, which is the meaning we do not ascribe to this term when using it about the non Ahmadis. Our view is that if a person conforms to the tenets and teaching of Islam to a given extent, he is entitled to be called a Muslim. But when he falls below even that point, then although he may be called a Muslim, he cannot be regarded as a perfect Muslim.”(Political Solidarity of Islam, Page 9)

“It is being emphasised nowadays that the Ahmadis call non-Ahmadis Kafirs. If this allegation is honestly made, then let the Ahrars come forward and prove that it is we that took the offensive in this respect. The fact is that it is they that began the battle and they were the first to call us Kafirs. They are morally bound to find out who threw down the challenge and took the initiative in issuing Fatwas of Kufr. Even now they are daily saying and writing in their newspapers .that Ahmadis are Kajirs. Can they prove that any Ahmadi newspaper has been guilty of thus calling the Ahrars Kafirs? He who calls another person a Kafir without rhyme or reason hurts his feelings and provokes a quarrel. We never do that. It is only when we are asked by a person as .to what we think of him and we are compelled to give an answer that we say we take him to be a Kafir in the sense in which this term has been explained above.”(Political Solidarity of Islam, Page 10)

” When a person takes Islam as his religion and accepts the Quranic injunctions and teachings as his guide of action, he is entitled to be called a Muslim. But if he denies a basic principle of the faith of Islam then although he may be called a Muslim yet in reality he is not so. We do not therefore take Kafir to mean that such a person denies the Holy Prophet Muhammad {peace be upon him). Who can say to a person who says that be believes in the Holy Prophet that in reality he has no such faith ? Nor do we take this term to mean the denial of the existence of God. One who says that he has belief in God, who can dare say that he has none? According to our definition of Kufr the denial of a fundemental doctrine of Islam renders a person Kafir. On the other hand only belief in all the essentials of lslam can make a person a true Muslim in the real sense of the word. But we do not at all regard a Kafir to be foredoomed to hell. A Kafir according to our belief could go fo heaven. We will call a person Kafir who, for instance, has throughout his .life remained unacqqainted with Islam, but God will not send him to hell on that account only because through no fault of his he did not come to know of Islam and God is not so cruel as to punish an ignorant person. So when we use the term Kufr we use it in the above sense only. But we never go about calling a person Kafir. It is only when we are compelled in answer to the enquiry of a person to say what we think of him. that we have to give expression to our belief. But with the definition of Kufr as given by the nonAhmadis as our basis of judgment we would not regard as Kafirs even the Hindus, the Jews, the Christians or the other non-Muslim communities, because we believe that there exists no
such community whose every member is foredoomed to everlasting hell.” (Political Solidarity of Islam, Page 12)

Go quickly find more copy paste job. :coffee:

If Zia wanted to, he could have crushed your community to ground. Dont talk non sense.

And as for Rabwah, seeing is believing:


Doesnt look like a center of persecuted and isolated community does it? Always remember this thing, if state dont want you to prosper, you cant do a jack. Ask how Sunni and Shias are treated in Iran and Saudi Arabia respectively. Qadyanis in general are affluent people in Pakistan simply because state DONOT interfere in their matters. As long as you are declared kafirs, that where state authority over you ends. You enjoy the rights of being Pakistanis like any other would do including Muslims.

For me I am not on a asylum son. I am working and paying my taxes here. For you lot, there is a reputation of your group being the sidekick of colonial masters and there is a whole history to it. And from it comes the narrative of you lot being treacherous to Pakistan and screwing it up from within. Retching conspiracies against motherland. That is the more prevalent and concerning issue among the educated population of Pakistan then what your actual beliefs are. Educated people look at you with suspicions not because of your believes but your intentions for the state of Pakistan itself. Its your allegiance to Pakistan itself which is under microscope. And the way you lot moan and dramatize things, doesnt do you any good at all, intact it has opposite effect.

Instead of moaning, work within the laws of land and build your reputation, work for Pakistan as its citizen with the same zeal like others would do. Do not, by any actions drag Pakistan good name through dirt. Its your motherland as well.

And not a single building there is built by the government or maintained by them. Why would Ahmadis hatch conspiracies against Pakistan? My family has done more for this country than 99% of mullahs in this country. Don't talk to me about Loyalty when my family has given everything for ungrateful idiots who think it is okay to turn around and murder me. One of my relatives was closer to Jinnah saheb than any one on this forum will ever be, I remain quiet on a lot of things cause I don't mean to boast. But being accused of disloyalty to Pakistan I will not bear.
 
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These lines, the poetry is meant for the fights among different sects of Islam. Like Shia sunii,, this is what i hate as well but it is about this, about the fights and disagreement between different sects of Muslims, it wont hold true in this case and is not relevant to this topic i guess.

Wrong there is no reference to shia or sunni sects in the poem .. he is refering to a mind set .

Mirza B Kafir Ahmedi B Kafir...!!!!
Kafir Kafir Ahmedi Kafir Ahmedi Kafir...!!!

tumblr_m63hpzm65X1rwkbo1o1_500.jpg


:pakistan::victory::victory::yahoo::nana:
 
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That ra*di rona to show your friends that you stand with them after getting your work done!! :coffee:
 
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I don't know why these ghairatmand Pakistani muslims are so arrogant in recognizing the equal rights of all Pakistani citizens. They say that Ahmedis added a prophet so they are supposed to be killed But by this logic the Jews should be killing Christians for adding Isa as a prophet and Christians are justified in killing muslims because we added Muhammed PBUH as a Prophet.

No where in any country of the world are people forced to sign such utter rubbish calling a entire people Kaffir. Who judges who is Kaffir, the arrogant mullah or Allah. One of the first things related to minority rights I would do if elected is remove those hate filled clauses from the system other than working to destroy the blasphemy law.

@Jaanbaz @Pakistani Exile are my brothers and I will die for them if needed. They made Furqan force for the country and now it is our time to defend them. We Pakistanis need to abandon their communal thinking.

However I agree with the lady in the op. What else can I do other than sign that document? Even I signed it... despite being a liberal. Though I agree and wish I should have stood up against it and at least said something.
 
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Dear @pak-marine, I know it hurts you that you are called kafir. But then why don't you accept the true Islam and be a Muslim. To be a Muslim one has to accept and believe in only one God and also believe that Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) is the last and final messenger of Allah. Simple and straight, shia, sunni, wahabi, deobandi, Hanafi, Shaf'ai, Hanbli, Maliki...all are Muslim despite difference since they all believe in the same fundamental belief and I believe that any person who calls any other sect a kafir is himself a kafir and govt should arrest such miscreants and punish them severely. However this circle cannot be extended to Ahmadiyya's since they transgressed the limit and refuted the most fundamental belief. For example, if a small semi conductor company starts producing microprocessors and starts marketing itself as Intel, will Intel allow that or for that matter the international laws of intellectual property will allow that? rather it will be termed illegal act by that company and it will be forced to shut down or change the name. So in Pakistan Ahmadiyya have not been allowed to use the name of Islam..well because you are not Muslim and all the sects are unanimous about it but you have been given the status of citizenship and you have all the rights except you can't call yourself a Muslim (because you are not) and some key positions like PM, President etc are not allowed which under democracy won't happen since majority of Pakistanis (97%) are Muslims and they will never elect an Ahamdi as PM, President etc.
However all other positions are available to you and govt should protect your freedom to worship and life and property. Under no circumstance anyone should be allowed to harm you or undermine your freedom and I will stand with you on that but I won't call you a Muslim until you become one sir.
 
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I don't know why these ghairatmand Pakistani muslims are so arrogant in recognizing the equal rights of all Pakistani citizens. They say that Ahmedis added a prophet so they are supposed to be killed But by this logic the Jews should be killing Christians for adding Isa as a prophet and Christians are justified in killing muslims because we added Muhammed PBUH as a Prophet.

No where in any country of the world are people forced to sign such utter rubbish calling a entire people Kaffir. Who judges who is Kaffir, the arrogant mullah or Allah. One of the first things related to minority rights I would do if elected is remove those hate filled clauses from the system other than working to destroy the blasphemy law.

@Jaanbaz @Pakistani Exile are my brothers and I will die for them if needed. They made Furqan force for the country and now it is our time to defend them. We Pakistanis need to abandon their communal thinking.

However I agree with the lady in the op. What else can I do other than sign that document? Even I signed it... despite being a liberal. Though I agree and wish I should have stood up against it and at least said something.

It is also funny when they accuse Ahmadis of being disloyal to Pakistan or hatching conspiracies against it while Jinnah saheb had the most closest relationship to the Ahmadiyya Community. Like I said, I don't want to boast, but my relative was also very close to Jinnah saheb and he also did not have a problem with Ahmadis calling themselves Muslims or even praying behind us as he did during Eid Namaz.

The idiots who call us traitors or disloyal don't even know that Jinnah Saheb announced his return to fight for the Muslims of the sub continent from a London Ahmadi Mosque at an event organised by the Ahmadiyya community.

The only traitors to Jinnah and Pakistan are those who murder and persecute Ahmadis and label us conspirators against the nation.
 
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It is also funny when they of Ahmadis being disloyal to Pakistan or hatching conspiracies against it while Jinnah saheb had the most closest relationship to the Ahmadiyya Community. Like I said, I don't want to boast, but my relative was also very close to Jinnah saheb and he also did not have a problem with Ahmadis calling themselves Muslims or even praying behind us.

The idiots who call us traitors or disloyal don't even know that Jinnah Saheb announced his return to fight for the Muslims of the sub continent from a London Ahmadi Mosque at an event organised by the Ahmadiyya community.

The only traitors to Jinnah and Pakistan are those who murder and persecute Ahmadis.
Zafarullah Khan was called a son by Jinnah and worked to free Pakistan from British rule. When demanded to call him kaffir Jinnah asked how can I call a person who calls himself Muslim Kaffir? This goes with the basic understanding of Islam from modern muslim scholars like Ghamidi and Muhammed Farooq Khan. Ghamidi refused to call shias kaffir and for that he had to go into exile. It is not in anyone on earth's hands to decide who is kaffir and who is a good muslim.

The truth and the real work of Ahmedis for freedom from both India and the British goes against everything a common mullah has been taught however because they idiotically call Ahmedis British slaves.

Pakistan's entire history needs to be rehashed. Before Zia Ul Haq we were far more liberal than this. How can we Pakistanis say anything to India when a smaller proportion of people than India's muslims looks like a threat to us. And then the ghairatmand's say we are defaming Islam and Pakistan when it is ultimately them weakening the federation by their anti minority views.
 
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Wrong there is no reference to shia or sunni sects in the poem .. he is refering to a mind set .
I know that. I meant to say that this hold true while describing the hatred and disapproval and disregard of one another between sects of Islam like Shia Sunni or others. Not relevant here.
However i do believe that instead of chanting "Kafir Kafir" at others if we just get our own act straight, 99% of our problems will be solved. This attitude do not help us much.
 
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Simple and straight, shia, sunni, wahabi, deobandi, Hanafi, Shaf'ai, Hanbli, Maliki...all are Muslim

its not so simple and straight above sects are currently sliting each others throats , choping and bombing the opposite sect in thousands in the middleast
 
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its not so simple and straight above sects are currently sliting each others throats , choping and bombing the opposite sect in thousands in the middleast
Two wrongs wont make one right dear,
Neither do there sins purge others of theirs!!
They are to pay for there deeds, just like everyone is to pay of theirs and this is one thing where one must worry about himself rather then others.
 
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But Ahmadiyya's aren't Muslims...
 
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You do not have the exclusive right to Islamic terminology. God has not given you that right, neither has the prophet (saw). Your belief in Islam comes from your understanding and interpretation of the religion. Mine comes from my own. On this world, neither I nor you know who is correct. We will find out on the day of judgement, hence I do not believe that a government has the right to legislate on this issue.

What I consider you is irrelevant, as long as I do not persecute you or hinder you from practicing your religion.
What rubbish you utter!

You do not have the exclusive right to Islamic terminology. God has not given you that right, neither has the prophet (saw). Your belief in Islam comes from your understanding and interpretation of the religion. Mine comes from my own. On this world, neither I nor you know who is correct. We will find out on the day of judgement, hence I do not believe that a government has the right to legislate on this issue.

What I consider you is irrelevant, as long as I do not persecute you or hinder you from practicing your religion.
On matters which are muhkamaat such as oneness of God and the finality of Prophethood there is no room for such interpretations. For example one could say according to one's interpretation God is not one but has duality. If one holds to this belief, he no longer qualifies as a Muslim. On matters which are mutashabihaat, such as when God takes himself upon his throne, there is room for interpretation with the caveat that the intrepretation should not contradict the muhkamaat as it would make that intrepretation false.

The Finality of the Prophet (PBUH) (from Qurash, not Punjab) is a matter of the muhkamaat and as such is definitive. Only those whose hearts are corrupted will seek otherwise.

Of course one should be free to believe what he wills without oppression but he should do it honestly and without trying to corrupt others' religion.
 
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OK try and do what you want. Karlo Shokh pura.
“One kind of kufr is that a man does not at all believe in Islam, and he does not accept the Holy Prophet Mohammad as an Apostle of God.”

“The second kind of kufr is, for instance, that he does not believe in the Promised Messiah… Even after the whole case has been fully and duly put before him, he declines to believe in one, whose truth has been supported by the Holy Prophet, with great emphasis and insistence, and whose truth, moreover, is found to have been confirmed by the Scriptures of the earlier Prophets: Therefore, since he rejects the decision of the Apostle of God, and of Allah Himself, he becomes a kafir . When you look deeply at this question, the two kinds of kufrare found to be one and the same thing. There is really no room for doubt that in the eyes of the Lord, where the case has been fully and duly put before, a kafir of the first or the second kind, on the Day of the Qiyama, he will be held culpable. And. where, in the eyes of the Lord, the case has not yet come to be duly and fully stated, and the man is a mokazzib, or munkir, though the Sharia, based as it is on the exterior, also would pronounce that he is a kafir ; and we too shall hold he is a kafir . But in the eyes of the Lord, under His law that He does not burden anyone beyond capacity, the man in question will not be held culpable. All the same, it would not be for us to issue a decree for his release and salvation. His would be a matter strictly between himself and his Maker, wherein we have no standing, whatsoever.” (Haqiqatul Wahi, pages 179-180)

” It is evident from this statement itself that the people here I have in mind I take as Muslims. Therefore, when I use the word kafir, I have in my mind kafirs of the second kind which I have defined already, i.e., they are not driven or thrown out of the Millat. When I say they are outside the pale of Islam I have in my mind the view, by Mufradat-i-Raghib on page 240, where Islam has been shown to be of two kinds: one lower than the stage of Iman ; the other above the stage of Iman. In DunalIman, in the stage of lower than common Iman, are included people whose Islam remains at a level lower than a proper Iman and in the stage of higher than the common Iman are Muslims who stand at a level of distinction in their faith, higher than the common level. This is why I said that some people fall outside the pale of Islam, I had in my mind people who come under the category of Dunal Iman. There is an authentic Hadith in Mishkat as well, where the Holy Prophet said: `Whosoever helps a man who is unjust, he puts himself thereby out of the
pale of Islam.'”

“Moreover there is a great deal of difference between our definition of kufr and theirs. They understand by kufr to mean the denial of Islam, which is the meaning we do not ascribe to this term when using it about the non Ahmadis. Our view is that if a person conforms to the tenets and teaching of Islam to a given extent, he is entitled to be called a Muslim. But when he falls below even that point, then although he may be called a Muslim, he cannot be regarded as a perfect Muslim.”(Political Solidarity of Islam, Page 9)

“It is being emphasised nowadays that the Ahmadis call non-Ahmadis Kafirs. If this allegation is honestly made, then let the Ahrars come forward and prove that it is we that took the offensive in this respect. The fact is that it is they that began the battle and they were the first to call us Kafirs. They are morally bound to find out who threw down the challenge and took the initiative in issuing Fatwas of Kufr. Even now they are daily saying and writing in their newspapers .that Ahmadis are Kajirs. Can they prove that any Ahmadi newspaper has been guilty of thus calling the Ahrars Kafirs? He who calls another person a Kafir without rhyme or reason hurts his feelings and provokes a quarrel. We never do that. It is only when we are asked by a person as .to what we think of him and we are compelled to give an answer that we say we take him to be a Kafir in the sense in which this term has been explained above.”(Political Solidarity of Islam, Page 10)

” When a person takes Islam as his religion and accepts the Quranic injunctions and teachings as his guide of action, he is entitled to be called a Muslim. But if he denies a basic principle of the faith of Islam then although he may be called a Muslim yet in reality he is not so. We do not therefore take Kafir to mean that such a person denies the Holy Prophet Muhammad {peace be upon him). Who can say to a person who says that be believes in the Holy Prophet that in reality he has no such faith ? Nor do we take this term to mean the denial of the existence of God. One who says that he has belief in God, who can dare say that he has none? According to our definition of Kufr the denial of a fundemental doctrine of Islam renders a person Kafir. On the other hand only belief in all the essentials of lslam can make a person a true Muslim in the real sense of the word. But we do not at all regard a Kafir to be foredoomed to hell. A Kafir according to our belief could go fo heaven. We will call a person Kafir who, for instance, has throughout his .life remained unacqqainted with Islam, but God will not send him to hell on that account only because through no fault of his he did not come to know of Islam and God is not so cruel as to punish an ignorant person. So when we use the term Kufr we use it in the above sense only. But we never go about calling a person Kafir. It is only when we are compelled in answer to the enquiry of a person to say what we think of him. that we have to give expression to our belief. But with the definition of Kufr as given by the nonAhmadis as our basis of judgment we would not regard as Kafirs even the Hindus, the Jews, the Christians or the other non-Muslim communities, because we believe that there exists no
such community whose every member is foredoomed to everlasting hell.” (Political Solidarity of Islam, Page 12)

Go quickly find more copy paste job. :coffee:



And not a single building there is built by the government or maintained by them. Why would Ahmadis hatch conspiracies against Pakistan? My family has done more for this country than 99% of mullahs in this country. Don't talk to me about Loyalty when my family has given everything for ungrateful idiots who think it is okay to turn around and murder me. One of my relatives was closer to Jinnah saheb than any one on this forum will ever be, I remain quiet on a lot of things cause I don't mean to boast. But being accused of disloyalty to Pakistan I will not bear.


Why world is not at peace with your Promised Messiah ? Why Islaam is not a dominate religion with the coming of messiah as Promised by Prophet Mohammad PBUH? Where is Jesus that was to come with Promised Messiah

Shows that how much ahmedis logic,common sense goes down the drain when he cant explain properly why their so called mahdi didnt stabilized the whole world and made Islam a dominate religion.
 
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And not a single building there is built by the government or maintained by them. Why would Ahmadis hatch conspiracies against Pakistan? My family has done more for this country than 99% of mullahs in this country. Don't talk to me about Loyalty when my family has given everything for ungrateful idiots who think it is okay to turn around and murder me. One of my relatives was closer to Jinnah saheb than any one on this forum will ever be, I remain quiet on a lot of things cause I don't mean to boast. But being accused of disloyalty to Pakistan I will not bear.

I am not in a position to negate or confirm your claims about Rabwah, what I am saying to you, that dont bring issues with the state of Pakistan. If the government hasnt helped you , there are many other "declared" muslims left to fend for themselves by the past and present governments. What is important that state never interfere in your matters and let you carry on with your lives. If you have build your town on your own efforts, good on you. This impression that Qadyanis are prosecuted by state is absolute non sense.

I am not talking about you or your family. I am talking about the perception that follows the qadyanis in general. Some sort of people sitting in their drawing rooms, like a secret societies in west, hatching up conspiracies against Pakistan. This is the reality, I am not going to menace any words , this is the impression that is prevalent in educated society of Pakistan. I am not talking about uneducated Mullah giving fatwa of murdering Qadyani. The article like the one under discussion piss off patriotic Pakistanis as it portray Pakistan as a state in bad light and it achieve nothing as far as reputations of Qadyanis is concern, infact it generate opposite effect. Think of it as Islamophobia that is rampant in western civilization. Its you, only you who can negate this narrative not by moaning but as you said, boosting about the achievement your community has achieved for Pakistan.

Learn to live within the laws of lands as it wont be changing as long as Pakistan remain as a state. Its not just Pakistan, all major Muslim countries dont recognize your group as Muslims. But doest it stop you in believing or practicing whatever you believe in? Your faith is not of any concern to state, afterall its between you and Allah as he will be judging you ,me and rest of mankind. But dont use your faith as a tool to drag the good name of Pakistan through dirt, because that is where likes of me will raise the objections.
 
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