Day 1 In Trump's America

[LA se Karachi]

Wow, please. Most democrats support the Clintons.

On NAFTA? No.

It wouldn't have passed if only Democrats in Congress were the ones voting. That's the point you seem to be avoiding:


NAFTA Implementation Act in the House of Representatives:


Republicans: 132 to 43 YEA


Democrats: 102 to 156 NO

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/103-1993/h575

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

And the Clinton supporters are just a bunch of Angels..... ... ... that fell..

 

[forsigmar]

On NAFTA? No.

It wouldn't have passed if only Democrats in Congress were the ones voting. That's the point you seem to be avoiding:


NAFTA Implementation Act in the House of Representatives:


Republicans: 132 to 43 YEA


Democrats: 102 to 156 NO


View attachment 351780

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/103-1993/h575

Yes, most democrats do support the Clintons and do support Nafta.

http://www.sstibbs.com/scott/2009_archives/blog_2009_005.html

NAFTA was a Clinton policy. That is absolute truth.

Like I stated before both sides are controlled by liberals and the vote does not tell the whole story. Both establishment democrats and establishment republicans are liberals and both supported nafta. https://www.nolanchart.com/article368-bill-clinton-and-his-nafta-baby-coconspirators-html

"On the Senate side, the big name Democratic who voted for NAFTA include Bill Bradley, Tom Daschle, Christopher Dodd, Ted Kennedy, Joe Lieberman, John Kerry and Joe Biden. All of these Democrats had made various bids for the presidency or vice presidency of the United States (Ted Kennedy's presidential bid was squashed when he let an innocent woman drown). Interestingly, big name NAFTA supporting Republicans include John McCain, Bob Dole (defeated by Clinton), Mitch McConnell (current Senate Minority Leader) and many other Republicans in Congress were none too eager to assist Bill Clinton in the sellout of the American worker.

On the House side, NAFTA supporters included big name GOPers as Dennis Hastert, Newt Gingrich, Dick Armey, John Boehner, Newt Gingrich and Ron Portman, all of whom rose to leadership positions in the House or the Bush Administration. Democrat Nancy Pelsoi, who voted yes on NAFTA, ended up Speaker of the House."



The establishment is what is important, these vote ratios are pushed to pass bills, not for moral grandstanding or stating which party supports what, because they are the same both controlled by "liberals"

"But the wholesale slaughter of the American middle class doesn't end with NAFTA. It was immediately followed up by another Clinton initiative and victory with the aid of a Democratically controlled Congress subjecting America to the World Trade Organization, another boondoggle that savaged the American worker and has resulted in Chinese poison foods and other dangerous products entering U.S. markets."

So republicans can be blamed for NAFTA but a democratically controlled congress which is "anti-trade" supports "WTO???"

Look at the 2008 economic bailout
http://www.politifact.com/oregon/st...chrader-says-more-republicans-democrats-vote/

More democrats supported the economic bailout, when things need to pass, they pass. They will find the votes because both sides are controlled.

 

[LA se Karachi]

Yes, most democrats do support the Clintons and do support Nafta.

Some, yes. Most, no. It's that simple.

I don't know how many more times I have to keep posting this, before you stop trying to run away from it. Facts are facts:


NAFTA Implementation Act in the House of Representatives:


Republicans: 132 to 43 YEA


Democrats: 102 to 156 NO

Look at the 2008 economic bailout
http://www.politifact.com/oregon/st...chrader-says-more-republicans-democrats-vote/

More democrats supported the economic bailout, when things need to pass, they pass. They will find the votes because both sides are controlled.

Bailouts are not the same thing as NAFTA/trade agreements. Don't confuse the two.

 

[forsigmar]

Some, yes. Most, no. It's that simple.

I don't know how many more times I have to keep posting this, before you stop trying to run away from it. Facts are facts:


NAFTA Implementation Act in the House of Representatives:


Republicans: 132 to 43 YEA


Democrats: 102 to 156 NO

Bailouts are not the same thing as NAFTA/trade agreements. Don't confuse the two.

Did you read this?
"But the wholesale slaughter of the American middle class doesn't end with NAFTA. It was immediately followed up by another Clinton initiative and victory with the aid of a Democratically controlled Congress subjecting America to the World Trade Organization, another boondoggle that savaged the American worker and has resulted in Chinese poison foods and other dangerous products entering U.S. markets."

So a democratically controlled congress then passed the WTO, NAFTA supercharged. And you blame the republicans for being free trade??? The republicans which i have said have been controlled by liberal Rockefellers since post ww2???

I honestly don't want to discuss this anymore. I suggest you read the histories of both the Origins of the Republican and Democratic Party and Convervatism and Liberalism. The roots of free trade and liberalism and the Democrat party of the South which grew cotton and were anti tariffs. and the Republican party of the North, which were major manufacturers who were pro-tariffs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariffs_in_United_States_history

Democratic President Grover Cleveland redefined the issue in 1887, with his stunning attack on the tariff as inherently corrupt, opposed to true republicanism, and inefficient to boot: "When we consider that the theory of our institutions guarantees to every citizen the full enjoyment of all the fruits of his industry and enterprise... it is plain that the exaction of more than [minimal taxes] is indefensible extortion and a culpable betrayal of American fairness and justice."[47] The election of 1888 was fought primarily over the tariff issue, and Cleveland lost.[48] Republican Congressman William McKinley argued,

"Free foreign trade gives our money, our manufactures, and our markets to other nations to the injury of our labor, our tradespeople, and our farmers. Protection keeps money, markets, and manufactures at home for the benefit of our own people."

Goodbye.

 

[LA se Karachi]

So a democratically controlled congress then passed the WTO, NAFTA supercharged. And you blame the republicans for being free trade??? The republicans which i have said have been controlled by liberal Rockefellers since post ww2???

Though Democrats outnumbered Republicans in that Congress, that does not mean a majority of them voted for NAFTA. They did not. But a strong majority of Republicans did.

I honestly don't want to discuss this anymore.

No problem, I don't either. I just wanted to make it clear that most Democrats in Congress voted against NAFTA and generally don't support trade deals, unlike most Republicans.

 

[Solomon2]

Obama talks up 'pragmatic' Trump
BY JORDAN FABIAN - 11/14/16 06:57 PM EST

© Getty Images
President Obama on Monday went out of his way to praise Donald Trump, calling him a “gregarious” and “pragmatic” man as he sought to reassure people around the globe who are fearful of the coming transition in power.

Holding his first press conference since the election, Obama chose his words with extreme care, declining multiple times to say whether he still thinks Trump doesn’t have the temperament to be commander in chief.

“I don’t think he is ideological,” Obama said. “I think ultimately he’s pragmatic, in that way. And that can serve him well."

The president’s glass-half-full view of Trump is a stark change from the campaign, when he described the businessman as an erratic figure who couldn’t be trusted with the country’s nuclear codes.
Obama expressed hope, however faint, that the Republican would not be able to roll back many of his signature White House achievements.

While Trump might be riding high after his triumph over Hillary Clinton, Obama said the office of president “has a way of waking you up” and that some of the things he promised to his supporters “don’t match up with reality.”

“Do I have concerns? Absolutely,” Obama said. “But the federal government and our democracy is not a speed boat. It’s an ocean liner.”

During the presidential race, Trump promised to erase Obama’s executive actions on “Day 1,” quickly repeal ObamaCare and then “renegotiate” the Iran nuclear accord.

The president suggested some of those things are easier said than done, and cautioned that repealing ObamaCare, in particular, could carry a heavy political cost.

“OK, well, what happens to those 20 million people who have health insurance?” Obama asked. “Are you going to just kick them off and suddenly they don’t have health insurance?”

The press conference was Obama’s first extended public comments since meeting with Trump for roughly 90 minutes in the Oval Office last week. It provided an opportunity for Obama to subtly exert pressure on his successor, while seeking to calm the turmoil that has swept through the country since the election.

It also came just hours before he embarked on his final foreign trip as president, where Trump’s victory will likely be the dominant topic among world leaders.

Obama said he would be able to reassure jittery European allies about the president-elect’s “commitment to NATO,” even though the businessman repeatedly questioned the value of the transatlantic alliance during the campaign.

“There is enormous continuity beneath the day-to-day news that makes us that indispensable nation when it comes to maintaining order and promoting prosperity around the world,” the president said. “That will continue.”

Obama adopted a measured tone during the press conference, which lasted more than an hour. He consistently referred to Trump, a man he once described as a “carnival barker,” as the president-elect.

He pointedly declined to comment on Trump’s choice of Stephen Bannon for chief strategist and senior counselor. While Democrats have decried Bannon, a former executive at Breitbart News, for his ties to the “alt-right” movement and white nationalism, Obama said he would not get into the habit of commenting on Trump’s appointments.

“It will be up to him to set up a team that he thinks will serve him well and reflect his policies,” Obama said of Trump, while also saying it’s important for the president-elect “to try to send some signals of unity and to reach out to minority groups or women or others that were concerned about the tenor of the campaign.”

And while Obama had mocked the notion of Trump’s populist appeal during the campaign, he credited him Monday with an “impressive” ability to energize supporters.

“He successfully mobilized a big chunk of the country to vote for him and he’s going to win,” the president said. “He has won. He’s going to be the next president.”

Asked about the future of the Democratic Party, which now holds little power at the state or federal level, Obama called for reflection from top leaders and a renewed focus on being competitive in every part of the country.

The comments were a subtle dig at Clinton’s campaign, which has been faulted for not competing hard enough in traditionally blue states in the Rust Belt that Trump won, such as Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.

“We have to compete everywhere. We have to show up everywhere,” Obama said.

He offered up his own campaign as a model of success, saying he was able to win twice in predominantly white Iowa — a state Clinton lost — because he spent a lot of time talking to voters there.

“Things change pretty rapidly but they don’t change inevitably,” the president said. “They change because you work for it. Nobody said democracy’s supposed to be easy. It’s hard.”