Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[jha]

^^ We should get Elbit design the standard JHMDS for all the IAF fighters .. They are leaders in the tech..

 

[KEETARP]

Rafale dosen't have HMDS in operation .

 

[jha]

RAF Typhoon takes off for Tiji with four Enhanced Paveway II 1000lb bombs

Royal Air Force mission struck a military complex in Tiji, Libya on Wednesday (25 May). One Tornado GR4 and one Typhoon FGR4 struck the facility with nine bombs. In a demonstration of the flexibility of the RAF's combination of Tornado and Typhoon, the mission was originally tasked to strike eight points.

A ninth was added based on information received during the mission. The Typhoon dropped four Enhanced Paveway II bombs, the first time it has done that operationally, while the Tornado used five Paveway IV bombs, again a first for that aircraft.

Both weapon types have both laser and GPS guidance for accuracy. All nine struck their intended target points on a Qadhafi regime storage facility. The strikes mean that RAF aircraft have struck 17 targets in deliberate operations in the past 36 hours, all of them direct hits.

At the same time, the RAF has maintained its commitment to dynamic targeting missions. In that role they have destroyed Qadhafi regime artillery threatening Misurata. The complementary capabilities of the 1000lb Enhanced Paveway II and 500lb Paveway IV ensured that the storage facility was completely destroyed.

Ground attack capabilities of EF being displayed..

1000lb Bombs

 

[jha]

Eurofighter nations give fresh support to AESA integration

Ministers from the four Eurofighter programme nations - Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK - have given their renewed support to the integration of an active electronically scanned array radar, according to partner company BAE Systems.
The backing was provided during a meeting held this month, said Peter Anstiss, board member for BAE's Military Aircraft and Information business unit.
"The programme is continuing," said Anstiss. "We and Selex Galileo have got engineers on it, and they are working to a programme supported by the four nations. The funding for that is anticipated."

Speaking about the development at BAE's Warton site in Lancashire on 25 May, Anstiss said: "If you look at the strength of conviction of ministers and chiefs of air staff, everyone is consistently talking about the capabilities of AESA, and radar integration. There is no wavering around that. It leaves us feeling very positive about the future upgrades that we need to meet export demand and that of the customer nations."

 

[sancho]

The picture is pretty small, but it seems that it still don't carry any BVR missiles in the strike role, just like on the first pic:

The programme is continuing," said Anstiss. "We and Selex Galileo have got engineers on it, and they are working to a programme supported by the four nations. The funding for that is anticipated."

So still not cleared yet, which proves that they are waiting for Indias decision.
If we join and take a part of the funding, EF will see AESA around 2015, if not possibly around 2020 during MLU and as a retrofit to the older EFs only.

 

[angeldemon_007]

Rafale dosen't have HMDS in operation

I don't think we should worry about HMDS now....a couple of Indian companies make world class HMDS and they have tie ups with companies like elbiet and thales...
Also if we will request for HMDS i am sure Thales will provide us with one...or we can go for Elbiet also....not to mention we can do any kind of change in Rafale like we did in Su30 mki to make a Rafale mki version to make it even better on the other hand this might be a problem if we select EF typhoon...

 

[saumyasupratik]

As I expected, Brimstone is more likely to be integrated on Rafale than on EF, just another proof not only about A2G capability, but on commitment of France to upgrade the fighter, compared to the EF partner countries!

Brimstones would be a potent armament for the the Rafale.I believe the AS-30L's have been completely replaced by the AASM 125 and 250's yes?

 

[angeldemon_007]

As I expected, Brimstone is more likely to be integrated on Rafale than on EF, just another proof not only about A2G capability, but on commitment of France to upgrade the fighter, compared to the EF partner countries!

Yes agreed...i think they are stuck with F35 program. The cost of that program is high and these countries have also spent on development.....

 

[sancho]

Brimstones would be a potent armament for the the Rafale.I believe the AS-30L's have been completely replaced by the AASM 125 and 250's yes?

Not replaced directly I would say, AASM is something between a PGM and missile, so Brimstone, or the laser guided rocket pods that are under development are more likely to replace it in the same manner.

 

[sancho]

Rafale in Combat: “War for Dummies”


By Giovanni de Briganti

RAFALETOWN, Corsica --- French air force Rafale combat aircraft deployed here as part of the UN-sanctioned Libyan No-Fly Zone are for the first time making full use of the aircraft’s “omnirole” capabilities, which allow a single aircraft to carry out the full gamut of missions during a single sortie.

Pilots of the eight-ship Rafale detachment based here at Solenzara air base in Corsica, and provisionally dubbed “Rafaletown,” routinely take off with four MICA air-to-air missiles, three or six AASM Hammer precision-guided bombs, a Thales Damoclès laser targeting pod or a Reco NG reconnaissance pod and two drop tanks. They can be tasked or re-tasked in flight, and routinely are, to fly combat air patrol, precision strike or reconnaissance missions during the same six- or seven-hour sortie...


...“Rafale was involved in Libya from Day One, and we fly several missions during a single sortie,” says detachment commander Lt. Col. Pierre G., stressing that “Omnirole Rafale” is not simply an advertising slogan but an accurate description of the aircraft’s very real capabilities...


...The Rafales work in a truly networked environment, and are fed targeting and other tactical data from a wide range of coalition sources through the Link 16 datalink. Incoming data is combined with that collected by the aircraft’s own sensors – Thales SPECTRA self-protection suite, OSF electro-optics, RBE-2 radar and even the infra-red guided version of MBDA’s MICA air-to-air missile which, as it scans continuously, can provide IR imagery to the central data processing system. “MICA is not just a missile, it’s an extra sensor as well,” says Pierre G., and its detection range is much longer than generally supposed.

Data from all on-board and off-board sensors are combined into a single tactical picture presented to the pilot on the cockpit’s central color display or, if desired, on one of the lateral displays. The pilot can select the data he wants, combine it with other data, and pass it on to his wingman or to other allied aircraft, ships or ground troops through the Link 16, without speaking a single word on the radio and, if not using the radar, without any transmission whatsoever. Link 16 can also be used to de-conflict assignments with other aircraft without using radios.

To illustrate the Rafale’s networking capabilities, one pilot described how the aircraft can receive target coordinates from an AWACS or another aircraft via Link 16. To accept the assignment, the pilot pushes a button, and the coordinates are automatically programmed into the AASM guided bombs, with no further action by the pilot who, once in range (up to 30 nautical miles), again pushes a single button to launch all three – or all six – AASMs to their individual targets. “We can fire the AASM against targets abeam or behind us, and can hit up to six in a single pass,” the pilot continues...


...Another pilot simply says that “the Rafale’s man-machine interface is so good it’s like ‘war for dummies’.”

Rafale pilots are also very complementary about their SPECTRA self-protection suite, which is of critical importance as France does not have any aircraft dedicated to the Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses (SEAD) missions. “SPECTRA allowed us to begin operations over Libya the very same day the political decision was taken, and to fly deep into Libyan territory without an escort,” says one pilot, adding that “the Americans also flew in, but only after they had fired 119 Tomahawks to take out Libyan air defenses.”...


...Missions from Solenzara are flown in two waves each day, one in daytime and the other at night, and the Rafales fire GPS-guided AASMs or laser-guided GBU-12 bombs on almost every mission. One Rafale also fired two Scalp cruise missiles, but so far the detachment has not fired the 30mm cannon as the minimum altitude mandated by the air staff is too high to use guns to good effect. Transit to Libya is flown at 50% power setting, which translates to Mach 0.9 cruise speed even with six AASM bombs and two large underwing drop tanks....


...Since Operation Harmattan (the French designation for enforcing the Libya No-Fly Zone) began on March 19, the detachment has flown 2,200 flight hours with over 1,500 in-flight refuellings, initially from their main operating base at Saint Dizier, in north-eastern France, and subsequently from Solenzara...Pilots at Solenzara say that, in just over two months of operations, no missions were aborted because of aircraft unavailability, and detachment commander Lt. Col. Pierre G. says that the availability rate is close to 100%...

Rafale in Combat:


Summary:

- truly multi role capable and versatile

- multi spectral sensors with high sensor fusion, even in passive mode

- high class weapons that allowed to attack several targets at a single pass

- high class SPECTRA EWS that allowed to attack, without the need of dedicated EW escorts, although Libyan radar and air denfence were fully capable

- high quality translates into high availablity


All this in actual combats, ready and proven today and not only on paper, or planed for the future!

 

[KEETARP]

The picture is pretty small, but it seems that it still don't carry any BVR missiles in the strike role, just like on the first pic:

And i happen to see a big AMRAAM missile in left inner most top rack just besides 2nd PAVEWAY (behind litening pod )

Is my eyesight better or i am unbiased towards rafale , That i can see such big missile .


And some posters have claimed - Eurofighter in A2G mission is even behind Mirage .
And Typhoon can't carry 1500L drop tanks .

Here is visual proof to bunk those claims

Before anyone opens his mouth about lack of targeting pod in second pic , simply replace 1000L drop point with LITENING 3

 

[angeldemon_007]

Before anyone opens his mouth about lack of targeting pod in second pic , simply replace 1000L drop point with LITENING 3

And have you thought about the cost of this custom made EF ??/

Also its true that EF is now able to carry some A2G weapons but still its no good in comparison to Rafale and its proved in Libyan war....We can ask for a higher power version of M88 which is being offered to Qatar which is meant for interceptor role....

 

[DARKY]

And have you thought about the cost of this custom made EF ??/

We can ask for a higher power version of M88 which is being offered to Qatar which is meant for interceptor role....

They were already offering the uprated M88 during last evaluation but no modification in initial offers were allowed............if they win they'll be asked for the uprated version for sure.

 

[DARKY]

I would like to get an opinion from you if Kaveri could be integrated as powerplant if Rafale won??

 

[sancho]

And i happen to see a big AMRAAM missile in left inner most top rack just besides 2nd PAVEWAY (behind litening pod )

Is my eyesight better or i am unbiased towards rafale , That i can see such big missile .

Good eyes in this case! I only saw the empty stations at the back, but it is still carrying only a single BVR missile, compared to the fully loaded testflights in Farnborough, or during the A2G weapon trials. Here is the original pic in better resolution:

And some posters have claimed - Eurofighter in A2G mission is even behind Mirage .
And Typhoon can't carry 1500L drop tanks .

It is behind the Mirage, not because of the fuel tanks, but because it can't carry 2 fuel tanks, an LDP and a 2000lb LGB at the same time. EFs centerline station is blocked by the LDP, which leaves no free station for the weapon. That means for a mission where you need only a single Mirage 2000H (even today without the upgrade), you need 2 x EFs, one with the weapon, one with LDP.
In strike role with cruise missiles it's behind Mirage as well, because the Mirage can carry Scalp on the centerline station with 2 fuel tanks, or a single fuel tank and 2 x missiles. EF does not have enough space at the centerline station, because of the gear bays, that's why it can carry only 2 x missiles and a single fuel tank, which obviously reduces the range by far.

Btw, the lower pic shows the 1500l fuel tanks on an DA7 test aircraft of Alenia, not an operational fighter, so far only 1000l tanks are available and even bigger fuel tanks, won't help the EF in these cases, only CFTs would, because free hardpoints for additional weapons, or tanks.

Before anyone opens his mouth about lack of targeting pod in second pic , simply replace 1000L drop point with LITENING 3

Which is not possible, because the LDP is integrated only at the centerline station and the weight balance would on each side of the wing would be a problem too, with an 200Kg LDP on the one side and an 1000Kg fuel tank on the other side. More sense would be to integrate it on the inner wingstation, but so far that seems not to be possible, otherwise they wouldn't limit themselfs like this right?

Again, only CFTs will help to make the EF more capable in this field compared to the Mirage 2000), not to mention that the Rafale is clearly superior anyway (5 wet stations, 2000l fuel tanks, CFTs developed and tested, 2000lb PGM and Scalp on up to 5 stations).