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F-16IN or F-16xx does not, will never super cruise. This notation came in being when as usual, idiot reporters printed that F-16 has ability to supercruise,when the LM guys just answered a question over supercruise, that it MAY BE able to, in a CLEAN CONFIGURATION.

Ok so I get my words back regarding supercruising, but PAF F-16 block 52 and F-16IN is like comparing apple with orange, apart from sensors, it has only new engine and AESA, what about that! without AESA PAF pilot will get deprived of getting a first shot which IAF's pilots will be possessing on account of AESA equipped F-16IN
 
MRCa might have been started as a stop-gap measure, but now i think it is going to form the creme-de la creme of IAF, until PAKFA (Sukhoi T-50) is inducted.

By looking at the depleting squadran strenghts of IAF, it is true but unless and until we dont have deep TOT then I don't think they are going to serve the our purpose. Regarding PAKFA, by looking at the US experience in building F-22, I don't think it would be a cake walk for us and russian to develop the same capability.


As such, the MRCA aircraft should be top of the line, and offer capabilities beyond what is available to us right now.

If it even manage to bring down the cost of current Support and Logistics alongwith Technology transfer then it will definetly serve our best purpose.


in other words, it should be better than our current best, the Su-30MKI.

Nothing can surpass the ability of MKI from the current tidbits of MRCA, since MKI is completely a different plane, rather it should be called as a bomber, only one thing it lacks is Supercruising as well as AESA which we should definetly get from MRCA.


it should be an aircraft that would be in service till atleast 2040, coz the induction of MRCA aircraft will be done during the next decade and the aircraft should be in serivice atleast for 25 years, or it will be a waste of money. this means that the aircraft should be one that would undergo many upgrades during its lifetime.

As far as my understanding goes with our experience of Mirage-2000 fleet, only Rafale can win the race of highest servicable criterion of IAF.

Our neighbour, China, is currently modernising its ancient fleet of aircraft at a very hectic pace.

But at the same time they are producing the J-10 like a crazy which is a best fighter plane at much cheaper cost and in huge numbers.


Soon they will have an airforce that is not just based on quantity, but also quality. if we are to match them or beat them in the air, we'll need high quality aircraft that they wont have access to.

Su-47, one thing they have that we lacks severaly is the massive indigenious production of homegrown quality fighter planes like J-10 and J-11. By mere induction of quality MRCA, we simply can't beat them, we have to ramp the production of LCA at any cost to match their capability. The way they shown their confidence for building stealth J-xx without russian assistant is the chieling remainder of their quality over MRCA.


the aircraft we choose should be better than anything china has, or will have, in the coming years.

It is not about choosing anything, rather we should develop something on our own by massive production and only one thing that can give us this capability that is LCA. If it were in my hand, then I would prefer to cancel MRCA and ramp the production of LCA to full throttle and would be looking on MCA's testflights. Since to surpass the chinese, MRCA is absolutely not enough according to me since this MRCA don't have the capability to stood against topnoth chinese air defence system like S-300PMU and their chinese clones and derivatives. And hence to compensate attrition we need to choose LCA in massive number rather then then MRCA.
 
But at what cost! since they are not going to provide us with deep technology transfer that we need to strenghten the base of our aviation industry and whatever they are showing some superficial graciousness by providing us Eurofighter and Rafale but at higher cost.
QUOTE]

What is the guarantee that USA will provide deep technological tranfer? France has been a very reliable supplier in the past (mirage 2000, jaguar) as has been the British (canberra, hunter, jaguar). they have provided full ToT for these planes. so if anything, we can trust the Europeans over the americans when it comes to ToT.

as for cost, the F-16 IN will have to be custom-built for India. this will obviously make it much costlier than the standard F-16. it may not be as high as the cost for eurofighter or raflae, but you have to remember that Eurofighter and rafale have airframes that are superior to the F-16. the eurofighter and rafale are designed to be the air superiority fighters of their respective airforces in the first few decades of the 21st century. so they will obviously undergo numerous upgrades during their lifetimes. in the case of F-16, it is at its pinnacle in terms of capability, and once USA retires them, they wont get any upgrades. when we compare F-16 with Rafale and eurofighter, we should compare their performances in 10 years time, not just now.

eurofighter and rafale maybe costly, but i believe that IAF can afford them. i think their costs are justified by their superior performance and promising future.
 
What is the guarantee that USA will provide deep technological tranfer?

If you read my previous posts correctly, then you would definetly feel that I never advocated US F-16IN, rather I weighted about LCA productions.


France has been a very reliable supplier in the past (mirage 2000, jaguar) as has been the British (canberra, hunter, jaguar). they have provided full ToT for these planes.

True, but on those occassion our aviation industry wasn't flourshing with sucess like now. And on the top of that those fighter planes provided by France and British didn't seems to have cost that much to IAF like the way Eurofighter and Rafale are costing us now.


so if anything, we can trust the Europeans over the americans when it comes to ToT.

Definetly but at much higher cost at the cost of diverting the money from indigeous aviation segment to import, like the blunder we committed during selection of Jaguars during 70s by compensating our capability in the form of homegrown Marut just on the pretext of acquiring the jaguar becuase of lower weapon load of Maruts and leave our aviation industry stranded.

as for cost, the F-16 IN will have to be custom-built for India. this will obviously make it much costlier than the standard F-16. it may not be as high as the cost for eurofighter or raflae,

True, but some of its technology is truly unmatched by either Rafale and Eurofighter like its AESA and Sensors as well as Avionics.


but you have to remember that Eurofighter and rafale have airframes that are superior to the F-16.

True, but our need is to achieve a kind of a technology which would in the long run beneficial to our homegrown aviation industry as well, just airframe cannot make much difference.

the eurofighter and rafale are designed to be the air superiority fighters of their respective airforces in the first few decades of the 21st century. so they will obviously undergo numerous upgrades during their lifetimes.

True.

in the case of F-16, it is at its pinnacle in terms of capability, and once USA retires them, they wont get any upgrades.

No mate, you are holding me wrong here, I am not trying to advocate F-16 over here just focus my emphasis on accompanied technologies that F-16 or F-18 would bring to us.

when we compare F-16 with Rafale and eurofighter, we should compare their performances in 10 years time, not just now.eurofighter and rafale maybe costly, but i believe that IAF can afford them. i think their costs are justified by their superior performance and promising future.

But Su-47, both typhoon and rafale are costing us very exorbitantly alongwith their infrastrucutre. I know they would definetly bring superior performance but one can assure that it would also cost us very much during lifetime upgrade.
 
Ok so I get my words back regarding supercruising, but PAF F-16 block 52 and F-16IN is like comparing apple with orange, apart from sensors, it has only new engine and AESA, what about that! without AESA PAF pilot will get deprived of getting a first shot which IAF's pilots will be possessing on account of AESA equipped F-16IN

Not really. what would the difference in detection range b/w a Block 52 and AESA F-16? No much actually. AESA is not a wonder weapon when it comes to detection range. It has other abilities which makes it a force multiplier.

Any way with AWACS in picture,everyone will see everyone.
 
Jeff, India needs to have a top quality airforce if we are to be a superpower in the coming decades. The typhoon and rafale are high 4.5 gen aircraft that are capable of being made into true 5th gen aircraft in the coming decades, with upgrades. i agree that it will be very costly, but national security cannot be compromised. as our economy grows, so will our defence budget. by buying rafale or typhoon, we will ensure access to state of the art technology for the entire life time of those fighters. they will give our scientists access to the best of european technology, which we can use on our own fighters once we assimilate the technology.

as for LCA being integrated in large numbers, dont you think it'll be better to have fewer LCAs upgraded with european tech accessed via typhoon/rafale than have a lot of LCAs without that tech?
 
Not really. what would the difference in detection range b/w a Block 52 and AESA F-16? No much actually.

Not much!, have you know about AESA of F-16 is APG-80 which is next only to APG-81 configured in F-35.... regarding Block 52's APG-68 it has range of slightly less then 300 km, APG-80 equipped F-16 will be act just like AWACS which would even bring down our anymore need of surplus awacs.


AESA is not a wonder weapon when it comes to detection range.

True, but right now the AESA which we are talking about is not any less versatile either, just think about haveing AESA in our inventory, it would completely transform our survellience tactics.


It has other abilities which makes it a force multiplier.

but APG-80 is just beyond something called as Force Multiplier and our dire need as well.

Any way with AWACS in picture,everyone will see everyone.

Only having AWACS doesn't mean that you will have a cakewalk, there are several things that come into the picture like EW, ECM, BVR missile which currently PAF lacks.

but have you know about russians are fast developing AWACS killer BVR missiles which is believe to be acquire by IAF in future.
 
Jeff, India needs to have a top quality airforce if we are to be a superpower in the coming decades.

To become a superpower, one need to stood on its own feet and achieve a self reliance in everything. Just look at the china, inspite of having inferior fighter planes according to the western standard, they have still on the path achieving a complete indigeous system which is quite reflective from the induction of J-10 and proposed building of J-xx on their own.

Just by buying a imported weapon regardless of how superier they are doesn't gurantee to achieve our ambition of becoming a superpower.


The typhoon and rafale are high 4.5 gen aircraft that are capable of being made into true 5th gen aircraft in the coming decades, with upgrades.

No matter how much you modify this aircraft they still can't attain the status of 5th generation aircraft, at most we can reduce their RCS but exterior weapon attached on this plane still reflect their signature on radar.

The MRCA that we are talking about don't even have any stealth capability and are sitting duck against real pradetors like Chinese air defence system in the form of S-300 and their derivates.


i agree that it will be very costly, but national security cannot be compromised.

Just don't think about that our national security is anymore focusing on Paksitan centeric and now it is tilting towards chinese centeric and hence we are buying this topnoth MRCA tidbids. Suppose if we require to scramble any of this MRCA towards foiling any chinese incursion on our northeast border, then can you guarantee me as they weill return in a single pieaces?

We want best value for whatever we are going to purchase and just shelling out extra would not gurantee us best results. Since the things is that Rafale is jewel in the crown of France and hence they would not let it go cheaply as we bought MKIs and at the same time chances that even PAF would bring this rafale to counter ours, since PAF know that french are very reliable and would not face sanctions. Regarding Eurofighter, do you really think that they are going to provide us full TOT in the form of AESA which is our dire need.


as our economy grows, so will our defence budget.

But according to our defence budget, we need to spend more then 70% of budget on indigeous weapon and eurofighter and rafale that you are talking about would not let us to attain this figure by owing to their higher cost.

by buying rafale or typhoon, we will ensure access to state of the art technology for the entire life time of those fighters.

True, but we are now incresingly focusing on indigeous system so this tidbits have a very little to offer to our homegrown system like AESA, Engine.


they will give our scientists access to the best of european technology, which we can use on our own fighters once we assimilate the technology.

There is not a single news that I have read about that Europeans are going to provide us a full TOT like Boeing and russians are offering us.


as for LCA being integrated in large numbers, dont you think it'll be better to have fewer LCAs upgraded with european tech accessed via typhoon/rafale than have a lot of LCAs without that tech?

Can you elobrate me what we are going to configure in LCA through the Typhon and rafale? since there is already a seperate JVs Improve engine of our LCA with europeans as well as associated engine development like shakti engine in Dhurv, so remain AESA, I think it is highly unlikely.

The whole point of having a large number of LCA as deterrant as whenever tommorow if chinese think about following any mischief against India, they would required to think 10 times by looking at the number, since level of technology is same between us and them, just quantity wise we are lacking and that exactly what we need to arrest by having a large number of small LCA rather then having token number of this MRCA tidbits.
 
Not much!, have you know about AESA of F-16 is APG-80 which is next only to APG-81 configured in F-35.... regarding Block 52's APG-68 it has range of slightly less then 300 km, APG-80 equipped F-16 will be act just like AWACS which would even bring down our anymore need of surplus awacs.




True, but right now the AESA which we are talking about is not any less versatile either, just think about haveing AESA in our inventory, it would completely transform our survellience tactics.




but APG-80 is just beyond something called as Force Multiplier and our dire need as well.



Only having AWACS doesn't mean that you will have a cakewalk, there are several things that come into the picture like EW, ECM, BVR missile which currently PAF lacks.

but have you know about russians are fast developing AWACS killer BVR missiles which is believe to be acquire by IAF in future.

300 km range? I would to see some proof of that. Americans don't design radar with such powerful transmitters. That is a Russian way of doing things,because they could not develop sensitive receivers. You dont want to ring your adversary's RWR do you?

I am yet to come across a report where it states that 80 has such a range.

As far as IAF needing "extra" AWACS is considered SU-30 more or less fulfills the role. Also do tell me what is this "dire need" to have APG-80? BARS currently fulfill the excepted role very well. Just like a AESA it is also able to attack air and ground targets at the same time. Ofcourse it does not mean that it is equivalent to an AESA,but some features yes.

No one is saying that AWACS is end of all. I was just responding over the notion of detection and hence stated that with AWACS, there is less "surprises". You dont require cutting edge anti-radiation missile to bring down a AWACS. In fact it might escape an ARM given that it has powerful ECM sources. Worse all it has to do is shut down it's radar.
 
300 km range? I would to see some proof of that. Americans don't design radar with such powerful transmitters.
That is a Russian way of doing things,because they could not develop sensitive receivers. You dont want to ring your adversary's RWR do you?

I am yet to come across a report where it states that 80 has such a range.

Read properly my previous post to which radar I had quoted 300 km range.

As far as IAF needing "extra" AWACS is considered SU-30 more or less fulfills the role.

But still there is some difference between PESA and AESA.

Also do tell me what is this "dire need" to have APG-80?

To familirise ourseleves with this new technology, to learn from it while designing something like on our own, otherwise we didn't included it in RFP.

BARS currently fulfill the excepted role very well. Just like a AESA it is also able to attack air and ground targets at the same time. Ofcourse it does not mean that it is equivalent to an AESA,but some features yes.

So you accept that AESA prevails over PESA. Since AESA equipped awacs made the use of AWACS more or less useless.

No one is saying that AWACS is end of all. I was just responding over the notion of detection and hence stated that with AWACS, there is less "surprises". You dont require cutting edge anti-radiation missile to bring down a AWACS. In fact it might escape an ARM given that it has powerful ECM sources.

But how does AWACS going to evade Jamming pod, our MKI are already fitted with ELTA El/M-8222.

Worse all it has to do is shut down it's radar.

So how does AWACS going to navigate all other fighter planes about incoming threat?
 
Gates in India to push US firms

US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has arrived in Delhi on a two-day visit aimed at bolstering military ties and promoting US arms manufacturers.
US firms are competing with Russian and European rivals for a multi-billion dollar deal to sell India fighter jets.

Mr Gates has said he wants to "expand" India's "significantly improved relationship" with the US. India has largely relied on Russian arms imports.

India meanwhile says it successfully tested a new type of ballistic missile.

The nuclear-capable missile was launched from an underwater platform off the south-eastern coast of India, a defence ministry official told the AFP news agency.

The new missile is expected to serve a nuclear submarine being built by India.

'Best package'

Mr Gates is expected to spend his two-day visit lobbying for US firms that hope to win a contract to supply India with 126 new fighter jets.

US-based Lockheed and Boeing are competing for the deal, valued at between $10bn-$12bn.

Other firms fighting for the contract include Russia's Mig, France's Dassault, Sweden's Saab and the Eurofighter consortium of British, German, Italian and Spanish companies.

The deadline for the bids expires next week.

A US official told Reuters news agency Mr Gates would aim to show that Americans offered not only the best product but the best maintenance package too.

US firms "operate with integrity", the official said, "which is different than what India has seen with other partners in the world".

Nuclear deal

Speaking before his visit, Mr Gates said the improved relationship between India and US had been one of the most significant changes since he was last in government 15 years ago.

"I want to see what we can do to not only strengthen that [relationship] but perhaps expand it in other ways," he said.

Defence co-operation between India and the US has increased dramatically since the end of the Cold War, with both countries seemingly driven by a desire to check China's growing military influence.

India earlier this month agreed a $1bn deal to buy military transport aircraft from US firm Lockheed Martin.

However, a key deal that would see the US supply India with nuclear technology for civilian uses has yet to be approved by India.

The deal, which would end a three-decade US ban on nuclear exports to India, is opposed by the Indian government's communist allies.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Gates in India to push US firms
 
India defers bidding in $12bn fighter jet contract

* Two-month extension given after some bidders sought more time

NEW DELHI: India has extended a deadline for global military aviation giants to bid to sell 126 fighter jets worth as much as 12 billion dollars, the government said Thursday.

The announcement of the two-month extension comes after reports that one or more bidders had sought additional time. The deadline had been set for March 3. India floated the global tender for the fighter jets last August and said six contenders were on a short list. A defence ministry spokesman confirmed to AFP that some of the contenders had at the last minute sought more time to finalise their offers.

“We want to ensure that there is maximum competition till the last stage and also some vendors had expressed the view in various fora that they should be given more time to tie up with Indian industry for collaborative efforts,” spokesman Sitanshu Kar said. “Also, our objective is to get the best equipment and platforms at the best price and so we want (that) the competition should remain wide,” Kar added. India had reportedly turned down a request for such an extension by one of the Western firms during a four-day arms fair in New Delhi that ended February 19.

Seattle-based Boeing, one of the front-runners, said it was ready with its bid for the contract, which stipulates that 18 jets will be bought in fly-away condition by 2012 and the rest assembled in India. “Our proposal to offer Super Hornets to India is complete,” Boeing Integrated Defence Systems spokesman Chris Chadwick said in a statement to AFP. “We are ready with a fully compliant proposal and will submit it three days early.” US-based aerospace firm Lockheed Martin, which is offering its F-16s to the Indian airforce, said last week it could meet the deadline.

“We have sought no extension and plan to meet the deadline,” company vice president Orville Prins recently told reporters in New Delhi. Russian manufacturers were not immediately available for comment and a spokesman from EADS, the European consortium selling Typhoon Eurofighter jets, said it would issue a statement later Thursday. Industry sources said at least two rivals called for the extra time in a bid to bypass a military import policy, which has been labelled “restrictive” by international arms firms.

The policy stipulates foreign firms selling products to India must re-invest up to 50 percent of the total amount to build manufacturing capacity in the country. afp

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
Published in Business Standard
26th February 2008

By the 6th of March, six global aircraft majors --- Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Dassault, Eurofighter GmbH, Gripen International and RAC-MiG --- must submit offers for selling India 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA). Worth an estimated $11 billion, this could be one of the biggest arms sales ever. For Indian defence planning, it would be the most expensive folly ever.

In acquiring yet another type of fighter aircraft, the Indian Air Force (IAF) will compound an existing problem of interoperability. There are major differences between Russian block equipment (the MiG series, and the Sukhoi-30MKI) and Western bloc equipment (the Mirage-2000 and the Jaguar). As a result, each IAF airbase is geared to support a certain type of aircraft; other types cannot just fly in and operate from there without major logistic preparations.

Consider an imaginary war with Pakistan. If India were launching a ground offensive, say around Lahore, the IAF would support that thrust with as many combat aircraft as possible. It would need to bomb Pakistani airbases to prevent the Pakistan Air Force from taking off; it would strike Pakistani ground forces and the infrastructure that supports them; it would also perform other missions like photoreconnaissance. Since the airbases around Lahore have just a small number of aircraft, fighters based in Rajasthan, Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh and the eastern sector will need to be re-located to Punjab, just before the battle begins.

That is where the problem begins. A Mirage 2000 cannot easily relocate from its permanent base in Gwalior to an airbase in, say, Pathankote. The Pathankote airbase supports Mig-series aircraft; its maintenance personnel, spare parts inventory, stocks of bombs and rockets and operational practices are geared towards MiGs. Today, if a Mirage 2000 were to land in Pathankote, it would require an entire support team from Gwalior to make it take off again. In wartime, relocating a squadron of Mirage-2000s would be a major logistical exercise and a clear signal to Pakistan of an impending attack.

This problem is already set to worsen when India’s Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), called the Tejas, enters service with the IAF. Purchasing a new MMRCA will invite a full-blown logistic nightmare.

Besides the need for inter-base operability, there is another good reason to abandon the MMRCA purchase: today’s IAF simply cannot exploit the capabilities of the aircraft it is setting out to buy. The technological excellence of a modern MMRCA, like the Eurofighter or the Rafale, does not lie in its airframe, engines, or its flying performance. Instead, its advantages lie in avionics, and in its net-centric capability, which means that the aircraft and its pilot are seamlessly integrated into an electronic battlefield management system. This system receives inputs --- in real time --- from a comprehensive network of radars, airborne warning systems and satellites; and it displays these inputs in the form of a battlefield picture. The controllers then allocate targets to Indian fire units, which could be fighter aircraft, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles or even army rocket batteries. Air forces like the American, British and French can electronically assign a target to an airborne fighter and automatically upload a digital map of the target area.

India is far from such a network. Our radars operate in small clumps, our data links are not in place, and our airspace management network is inferior even to Pakistan’s. Many of our key systems work on incompatible protocols. An economically resurgent India can afford to buy the MMRCA. But doing so would be like a farmer with a bumper crop busting his money on a BMW with a city navigation system and great FM stereo. He wouldn’t use most of the high-tech systems.

So what is India’s smarter alternative? The path is illuminated by an earlier IAF procurement, the carefully structured Sukhoi-30MKI fighter. Instead of accepting a ready-built Russian aircraft for fancy prices, the IAF creatively married Sukhoi’s airframe and engine excellence, with an advanced avionics package made from Israeli and French components. The Sukhoi-30MKI’s avionics were tailor-made for IAF requirements; India did not pay fancy prices for capabilities that would never be used. The Sukhoi experience was further refined when the IAF went about upgrading the MiG series fighters; advanced avionics will extend their service lives at minimal cost.

India must stick with a medium fighter that it already flies. The IAF has long pressed for increasing the size of its Mirage 2000 fleet (currently 52 aircraft), a fighter that its pilots hold in high regard. An advanced variant of the Mirage 2000 was one of the options in the MMRCA purchase until Paris replaced it with the newer, more expensive Rafale fighter, informing New Delhi that the Mirage 2000 production line was being wound up. An opportunity lies here for India; Paris would most likely grab the chance to sell India the Mirage 2000 production line, and benefit from production royalties and the opportunity to involve French avionics companies like Thales and Thomson CSF in developing an aviation package customised for India. France realises that American and Russian marketing clout in New Delhi leaves it with little chance of selling the Rafale.

Today, no official or politician is willing to tell the Indian public the unpalatable truth that the IAF is not technologically geared to operate highly networked fighter aircraft. Instead, it is more convenient to make grandiose declarations about providing the military with the world’s best equipment and then stonewalling the purchase with layers of procedures. Opting for a near-state-of-the-art, made-in-India Mirage 2000 variant requires not just a fine understanding of defence planning but also the courage to make and publicly defend a subjective military decision. Neither quality has been in evidence in the MoD so far.
 
Well written article. That is why I said that Mig-35 should be a natural choice because of Indian good awareness of Russian technology and easy inventory management.
Just on the funny side I thought Pakistan should have also marketed its JF-17's. You just don't know what might happen in an Indian tender.:rofl:
 
This is a reportage of Ajay Shukla, as usual it is one another example of poor reportage and hence nothing but an unsurprising stuff.

Let me point out some chieling points from his report.

Published in Business Standard
26th February 2008
For Indian defence planning, it would be the most expensive folly ever.

What makes Ajay shukla think that? especially when more then half of total cost will be invested in India itself.

In acquiring yet another type of fighter aircraft, the Indian Air Force (IAF) will compound an existing problem of interoperability. There are major differences between Russian block equipment (the MiG series, and the Sukhoi-30MKI) and Western bloc equipment (the Mirage-2000 and the Jaguar). As a result, each IAF airbase is geared to support a certain type of aircraft; other types cannot just fly in and operate from there without major logistic preparations.

HE HE HE HE, I just can't stop my laugh upon how one can be naive!

IAF has so far operated various types during the each and every conflict or peaceful period or during joint exercises successfully then how does this question of interoperability of logistics, maintenance and service get raised?

Even during Alaska Joint exercise with USAF, we had brought our Jaguars to Alaska, so according to the Ajay shukla IAF had shifted all its entire fleet of jaguar’s maintenance and ground personnel to Alaska.


Consider an imaginary war with Pakistan. If India were launching a ground offensive, say around Lahore,
the IAF would support that thrust with as many combat aircraft as possible. It would need to bomb Pakistani airbases to prevent the Pakistan Air Force from taking off; it would strike Pakistani ground forces and the infrastructure that supports them; it would also perform other missions like photoreconnaissance.


One can see that mind of Ajay shukla is still romming around the airwar of 1965 and 1971 and upon that similar notion he has made several mistakes in his report.


Since the airbases around Lahore have just a small number of aircraft,

How does he knows regarding presense of small number of aircraft around Lahore?


fighters based in Rajasthan, Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh and the eastern sector will need to be re-located to Punjab, just before the battle begins.

How does he knows that fighters from these part would be relocated hypothetically since according doctrine of any airforce relocation of any fighter type remains anonymous.


That is where the problem begins. A Mirage 2000 cannot easily relocate from its permanent base in Gwalior to an airbase in, say, Pathankote. The Pathankote airbase supports Mig-series aircraft; its maintenance personnel, spare parts inventory, stocks of bombs and rockets and operational practices are geared towards MiGs.

Ajay shukla seems to have made an very fatal mistakes in his report, as how didn’t he takes into account several Russian originating BVR, WVR Missiles, air to ground ammunition are compatible with Mirage-2000, so ground staff from pathankote don’t have to fight while incorporating ammunition over mirage of Russian origin. On the top of that shifting of maintenance personnal, spare parts inventory are not a big deal since IAF is quite versatile in this respect as far as its experience as well as eagerness in joint exercises with various foreign airforces.


Today, if a Mirage 2000 were to land in Pathankote, it would require an entire support team from Gwalior to make it take off again.

Why doe it so?

Is there thing that those ground personnel who are situated in gwalior are the only human species in the world that can make IAF’s Mirage-2000 flyable?


In wartime, relocating a squadron of Mirage-2000s would be a major logistical exercise and a clear signal to Pakistan of an impending attack.

How does Pakistan knows about it regarding the presense of a particular aircraft type on IAF’ airbase?


This problem is already set to worsen when India’s Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), called the Tejas, enters service with the IAF.

As usual, Ajay shukla simply couldn’t refrain himself from spoiling the name of LCA.


Purchasing a new MMRCA will invite a full-blown logistic nightmare.

As thought by ill mentality of Ajay shukla.


Besides the need for inter-base operability, there is another good reason to abandon the MMRCA purchase: today’s IAF simply cannot exploit the capabilities of the aircraft it is setting out to buy.

HE HE HE HE HE….! I can’t stop from laughing as how does an experienced IAF in operating various types of aircraft in its lifetime can’t exploits the capabilities of MRCA?


The technological excellence of a modern MMRCA, like the Eurofighter or the Rafale, does not lie in its airframe, engines, or its flying performance. Instead, its advantages lie in avionics, and in its net-centric capability, which means that the aircraft and its pilot are seamlessly integrated into an electronic battlefield management system.


Oh Ajay shukla there is no parallel to you in the world!

Ajay shukla seems to have sounding like IAF is naïve in net-centric capability, avionics, electronic battlefield management etc.



This system receives inputs --- in real time --- from a comprehensive network of radars, airborne warning systems and satellites;


All these inputs are in place but I failed to understand why does Ajay shukla’s stomach is aching over this input.

and it displays these inputs in the form of a battlefield picture. The controllers then allocate targets to Indian fire units, which could be fighter aircraft, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles or even army rocket batteries. Air forces like the American, British and French can electronically assign a target to an airborne fighter and automatically upload a digital map of the target area.

Oh I see, so IAF which has an distinction of exercising with several advance and top of the line airforce in the world is still unaware about battlefield picture as describe by so called ajay shukla.


India is far from such a network.

Which network is he talking about? Since according several reports publish by IAF and IA, both of this entity are striving for network centric capability and IAF is also embark upon in the form of aerospace command.


Our radars operate in small clumps,

I think name of Induction of Green pine radar, Aerostate radar, Indra radar, Rajendra radar and several other existing and upgraded radars are still align to Ajay shukla.


our data links are not in place,

How does we can place datalink in the absence of MRCA? Especially when US is unwilling to allow datalinking of F-18’s by IAF which is developed in house by India itself..


and our airspace management network is inferior even to Pakistan’s.

Ha HA HA HA HA! Ajay shukla tera jawab nahi.


Many of our key systems work on incompatible protocols.

Which protocol does he talking about? Can someone tell me?

An economically resurgent India can afford to buy the MMRCA. But doing so would be like a farmer with a bumper crop busting his money on a BMW with a city navigation system and great FM stereo. He wouldn’t use most of the high-tech systems.

So this is key contention of Ajay shukla and hence he doesn’t find any other subject other MRCA by exhibits his poor reportage.

So what is India’s smarter alternative? The path is illuminated by an earlier IAF procurement, the carefully structured Sukhoi-30MKI fighter. Instead of accepting a ready-built Russian aircraft for fancy prices, the IAF creatively married Sukhoi’s airframe and engine excellence, with an advanced avionics package made from Israeli and French components. The Sukhoi-30MKI’s avionics were tailor-made for IAF requirements; India did not pay fancy prices for capabilities that would never be used. The Sukhoi experience was further refined when the IAF went about upgrading the MiG series fighters; advanced avionics will extend their service lives at minimal cost.

This is nothing but clear case of bribe that is being paid by Russian to Ajay shukla to go for false reportage.


India must stick with a medium fighter that it already flies. The IAF has long pressed for increasing the size of its Mirage 2000 fleet (currently 52 aircraft), a fighter that its pilots hold in high regard. An advanced variant of the Mirage 2000 was one of the options in the MMRCA purchase until Paris replaced it with the newer, more expensive Rafale fighter, informing New Delhi that the Mirage 2000 production line was being wound up. An opportunity lies here for India; Paris would most likely grab the chance to sell India the Mirage 2000 production line, and benefit from production royalties and the opportunity to involve French avionics companies like Thales and Thomson CSF in developing an aviation package customised for India. France realises that American and Russian marketing clout in New Delhi leaves it with little chance of selling the Rafale.


Oh so sudden change now Ajay shukla is expressing his sympathy towards French after so much bashing of western fighter planes, seems to be even French are lobbying hard to bring Rafale below the throat of IAF and hence French doesn’t seems to have remain far behind in bribing Ajay shukla.


Today, no official or politician is willing to tell the Indian public the unpalatable truth that the IAF is not technologically geared to operate highly networked fighter aircraft.

How does they can tell this truth? Especially when if you have to become competent with hightly network centric aircaft, you have to possess those aircraft in first place.

Instead, it is more convenient to make grandiose declarations about providing the military with the world’s best equipment and then stonewalling the purchase with layers of procedures.

But now several in built filters are in place to smoothen this layers of procedures


Opting for a near-state-of-the-art, made-in-India Mirage 2000 variant requires not just a fine understanding of defence planning but also the courage to make and publicly defend a subjective military decision.

I don’t understand why does this Ajay shukla is propogating about Mirage-2000 especially when it can’t no loger fulfill IAF’s demand.

Neither quality has been in evidence in the MoD so far.

And How about porr quality of your reportage ajay shuklaji?
 
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