What's new

Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

Status
Not open for further replies.
I am not talking about complete carrier component. Let it be land based fighters too trained in sea warfare.

by 2020, Three ADS(dont me ask how, I know) and Vikramaditya....

20 in Vikramaditya
30 in ADS-1
30 in ADS-2
60 in ADS-3

That would make 140, plus 160 land based.

AHHHH!!!!! the life .....
 
.
300 Aircraft in the Navy
1200 Aircrafts in the Airforce
 
.
How will IAF acquire its multi-role jets?

NEW DELHI: The Indian defence ministry has dropped the life-cycle cost calculation for its coming tender for the 126 new Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA) as there will be too many "imponderables" over the rather long life of these jets extending up to around 2050.
According to a report in the coming issue of India Strategic defence magazine, an advance copy of which has been made available to the media, a new Verifiable Cost Model (VCM) has been adopted, according to which the new aircraft should last either over a period of 40 years or an actual flying time of 6,000 hours, "whichever is earlier".

The tender, technically called the Request for Proposals (RfP), should be out within this month or latest by mid-August according to current indications. Broadly, the following VCM parameters will be considered:

Direct Acquisition Cost or Initial Cost including that of weapons and spares; Warranty for the first two years; Licence Royalty for manufacture in India; Cost of Transfer of Technology; Cost of Initial Training; and Operating costs like consumption of fuel and lubricants.

While the Indian Air Force (IAF) has specified the multi role capability for the new jets, the India Strategic report said that the government would insist on Guaranteed Serviceability and Adequate Supply of Spares throughout the lifetime of the aircraft before finalizing the negotiations with the vendors.

This means that if a supplier wants to close down its assembly line, then it has to give this information well in advance and ensure that alternative arrangements are made, preferably within India.

Cost-escalation will be there and accepted but it will be based on "pre-established and well accepted indices for the duration of the contract", India Strategic quoted unnamed sources as saying.

Inflation is part of the economy but there will be a cap in the final agreement, irrespective of unforeseen circumstances like political upheavals or sudden closure of a manufacturing facility.

India Strategic said that the finance ministry has cleared a budget of nearly $10 billion (Rs.42,000 crores) and the RfP should be out within this month "but not later than mid-August".

As the project is huge, 50 percent direct offset has been mandated, preferably in the aircraft project itself. But according to Defence Secretary Shekhar Dutt, it could go to other defence projects "if India requires them".

It may be noted that Dutt is the author of the Offsets policy that he had first mooted in 1994.

The government has accepted the IAF's insistence that the aircraft should be the best available with potential upgrade capability.

While the technical requirements called the Air Staff Requirements (ASR) as laid down by a panel headed by the Vice Chief of Air Staff (VCAS) are secret and will be given only to the six foreign companies in the fray, IAF says the new aircraft should be able to execute missions from air defence to ground and maritime attack as well as reconnaissance.

Mid-air refueling capacity is a must for all new aircraft from now on.

The six vendors will be given six months to respond to the RfP, and after an evaluation of the technical documents, field trials of aircraft and their systems will be undertaken to match the claims of the manufacturer.

These will be followed by weapon tests in the country of respective manufacturer. The vendors will submit two documents -- Technical Bids and Commercial Bids.

Commercial offers of only those who qualify technically will be opened and contract negotiations will be conducted with the lowest, or what is known as L-1, bidder.

After this is finalized, the defence ministry and IAF officials processing the contract will put up the contract for approval to the defence minister who will send it to the Cabinet Committee of Security (CCS) for final approval, and the tender would be awarded to the winner.

The defence ministry expects the first batch of 18 aircraft, which will be supplied in flyway condition, to be with IAF by 2012, thanks to the speedy and time-bound process envisaged in the recent Defence Procurement Policy (DPP) 2006.

The aircraft manufacturers will be free to choose public sector or private partners but as only the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has an established aircraft manufacturing facility in India, it will be the lead integrator.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...e_its_multi-role_jets/articleshow/2206326.cms
 
.
PICTURE: US Navy Super Hornet deal could cut JSF numbers
By Stephen Trimble



The US Navy (USN) is in "low-level discussions" with Boeing on a plan to link F/A-18E/F Super Hornet production to the start-up of full-rate production for the carrier-variant Lockheed Martin F-35C Joint Strike Fighter.

The ongoing talks could add several years and at least scores of aircraft to the F/A-18E/F production programme, perhaps at the expense of the USN's current plan to buy 600 F-35Cs.


© US Navy
The Super Hornet programme had been cut from about 1,000 fighters to the current plan to buy 550 aircraft


Naval aviation officials are seeking to reclaim hundreds of F/A-18E/Fs cut from the programme after JSF was launched in the late 1990s. Since then, the Super Hornet programme has been cut from about 1,000 aircraft to the current plan to buy 460 of the fighters, plus about 90 EA-18G Growler electronic-attack aircraft.

The USN now wants to reclaim as many of those lost aircraft as possible, says F/A-18 programme manager Capt Don Gaddis.

Naval leaders say they face a shortfall of as many as 200 fighters in the inventory up to 2030. Last month, Boeing disclosed it has made an unsolicited offer to sell a further 170 Super Hornets for about $49 million each.

Gaddis says he has agreed to discuss terms for buying 152 aircraft, an amount thought of as a random starting point for obtaining pricing information.

The number includes about 90 aircraft already scheduled to be purchased in fiscal years 2010 and 2011, plus about 60 new orders to be wrapped into a third multi-year procurement (MYP) deal for the F/A-18E/F, he says.

When both parties can agree on a price on options for ordering quantities, Gaddis will submit his recommendations through the navy's budget review process for the FY2010 budget cycle. The goal is to secure a third MYP deal, with savings generated by the long-term order to be invested in orders for additional aircraft.

The length of the proposed MYP to start in FY2010 has not been determined, but it could run at least through FY2014, with the last delivery to the USN coming two years later. Currently, that timeline overlaps the full-rate production schedule for the F-35C, which launches in FY2015.

Meanwhile, the foreign market for the F/A-18E/F may also expand Boeing's production line. Australia has signed the first international order for 24 Super Hornets, and the USN-Boeing sales team is competing in the next several years for potential contracts in India, Japan, Kuwait and Switzerland, as well as a potential follow-on order in Australia, Gaddis says.

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...-super-hornet-deal-could-cut-jsf-numbers.html
 
.
PICTURE: US Navy Super Hornet deal could cut JSF numbers
By Stephen Trimble



The US Navy (USN) is in "low-level discussions" with Boeing on a plan to link F/A-18E/F Super Hornet production to the start-up of full-rate production for the carrier-variant Lockheed Martin F-35C Joint Strike Fighter.

The ongoing talks could add several years and at least scores of aircraft to the F/A-18E/F production programme, perhaps at the expense of the USN's current plan to buy 600 F-35Cs.


© US Navy
The Super Hornet programme had been cut from about 1,000 fighters to the current plan to buy 550 aircraft


Naval aviation officials are seeking to reclaim hundreds of F/A-18E/Fs cut from the programme after JSF was launched in the late 1990s. Since then, the Super Hornet programme has been cut from about 1,000 aircraft to the current plan to buy 460 of the fighters, plus about 90 EA-18G Growler electronic-attack aircraft.

The USN now wants to reclaim as many of those lost aircraft as possible, says F/A-18 programme manager Capt Don Gaddis.

Naval leaders say they face a shortfall of as many as 200 fighters in the inventory up to 2030. Last month, Boeing disclosed it has made an unsolicited offer to sell a further 170 Super Hornets for about $49 million each.

Gaddis says he has agreed to discuss terms for buying 152 aircraft, an amount thought of as a random starting point for obtaining pricing information.

The number includes about 90 aircraft already scheduled to be purchased in fiscal years 2010 and 2011, plus about 60 new orders to be wrapped into a third multi-year procurement (MYP) deal for the F/A-18E/F, he says.

When both parties can agree on a price on options for ordering quantities, Gaddis will submit his recommendations through the navy's budget review process for the FY2010 budget cycle. The goal is to secure a third MYP deal, with savings generated by the long-term order to be invested in orders for additional aircraft.

The length of the proposed MYP to start in FY2010 has not been determined, but it could run at least through FY2014, with the last delivery to the USN coming two years later. Currently, that timeline overlaps the full-rate production schedule for the F-35C, which launches in FY2015.

Meanwhile, the foreign market for the F/A-18E/F may also expand Boeing's production line. Australia has signed the first international order for 24 Super Hornets, and the USN-Boeing sales team is competing in the next several years for potential contracts in India, Japan, Kuwait and Switzerland, as well as a potential follow-on order in Australia, Gaddis says.

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...-super-hornet-deal-could-cut-jsf-numbers.html

Dude you highlighted the $49 million for some reason. Thats the price that the USN would pay.
the Australians paid $3.1 billion for 24 aircraft with support etc (and they have the Hornet in service already)
 
.
India is not buying 24 Hornets rather 126, India is also a market americans are trying their best to enter, India also will have a factory here to make them lower labour, Australians had the Hornet not the Super Hornets, compleletly differnet bird. Therefore the extra investment on training, new aramament capability and service line

India will definitly get the Hornets at a very very attractive price than the Australians.
 
.
India is not buying 24 Hornets rather 126, India is also a market americans are trying their best to enter, India also will have a factory here to make them lower labour, Australians had the Hornet not the Super Hornets, compleletly differnet bird. Therefore the extra investment on training, new aramament capability and service line

India will definitly get the Hornets at a very very attractive price than the Australians.

Followed the whole thread - have a question for you Adux :

Why would India need 126 fighters if it is for first strike role? Thats a lot of aircraft.

The reason this question arises is - if it is really only for just a first strike role - why shouldn't India go for the best that is out there? These missions must be the most critical parts of the game and with least margin of error - IMO

Should go for the Typhoon then, the best out there.

And if cost is a problem, cut down 126 to something within reach - afterall that number seems lil too many for the role...
 
.
By the virtue of the news below it sounds a very good negotiation by Indians.
I wonder what's running through American heads!
Let's see when would IAF gets it's first delivery, without compromising all those extra perks.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-2317231,prtpage-1.cms
Indian Air Force floats tender for 126 fighter jets
28 Aug, 2007, 1616 hrs IST, IANS

NEW DELHI: The Indian Air Force (IAF) on Tuesday floated a global tender for 126 combat jets worth $10 billion in the country's biggest ever defence deal, but it could be six years before the first planes start arriving.

Eighteen of the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) will be purchased in flyaway condition and the remaining 108 manufactured in the country under a transfer of technology (TOT) agreement with the chosen supplier. The aircraft are envisaged to have a lifecycle of 40 years from the time of delivery.

The 211-page request for proposal (RFP) has been sent to the manufacturers of six aircraft: the US F-16 and F-18 Super Hornet, the Swedish Gripen, the French Rafale, the Russian MiG-35 and a European consortium's Eurofighter.

India's Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) had cleared the RFP at a meeting here June 29 chaired by Defence Minister AK Antony.

The six companies, which have been given six months to respond, will also be asked to sign a confidentiality clause against revealing the contents of the RFP to a third party.

The RFP will also contain an offsets clause under which 50 percent of the money paid to the chosen vendor will have to be reinvested in India's defence manufacturing sector.

The offsets clause that was introduced in the Defence Procurement Procedure-2006 (DPP-2006), mandates that 30 per cent of the cost of military purchases exceeding Rs.3 billion has to be reinvested in the country.

"The DAC had decided that the offsets in this case would be 50 percent," Defence Ministry spokesman Sitanshu Kar told reporters.

The IAF desperately needs new aircraft to replace its ageing fleet of Soviet-era MiG-21 fighters that make up 21 squadrons of its 30-squadron fleet of combat aircraft.

While the RFP relates to 126 aircraft, the number could go up by 70-80 to make up for the aircraft that will be phased out in the period before the new jets start arriving.

The RFP also contains a selection model that would involve an exhaustive evaluation process as detailed in the DPP-2006.

Explaining the process, Kar said a professional team would conduct a technical evaluation of the proposals received to check for compliance with the IAF's operational requirements and other RFP conditions.

Following this, extensive field trials would be carried out to evaluate the performance of the different aircraft. Finally, the commercial proposal of the vendors short-listed after technical and field evaluations would be examined and compared.

The defence ministry's Contract Negotiation Committee (CNC) would then hold discussions with the vendors before identifying the manufacturer who would be awarded the IAF order.

The CNC would submit its report to the defence minister, who would forward it to the finance minister. After the file returns to the defence ministry, it would go for final approval to the cabinet committee on security (CCS). This process would take some two-and-a-half years.



After the contract is signed with the chosen manufacturer, it would take another two-and-a-half years before the first aircraft arrives.

"Since the aircraft are likely to be in service for over 40 years, the vendors have to provide lifetime support and performance based warranty for them," Kar pointed out.

According to him, defence ministry officials "have confirmed that great care has been taken to ensure that only determinable factors that do not lend themselves to any subjectivity are included in the commercial selection model.

"It is expected that the technology transfer and offset clauses would provide a great technological and economic boost to the indigenous defence industries in the public sector," Kar stated.

The floating of the tender is the culmination of a process that began in 2001 when the IAF sent out its request for information (RFI) for 126 jets.

During this period, the IAF has witnessed an alarming dip in its fighter squadron levels from a sanctioned strength of 391/2 to 30.
 
.
Complex RFP raises questions on timetable for Indian MRCA procurement
Questions hang over India's planned procurement of 126 multirole combat aircraft (MRCA) with one analyst predicting a six-month delay in the procurement and some Western bidders concerned they are being negatively affected by conditions in the recently issued request for proposals (RfP). Deba R Mohanty, a senior fellow in security studies at the New Delhi-based Observer Research Foundation - who reviewed a copy of the RfP shortly after it was issued to the six contenders - told Jane's in early October that the complexity of the RfP document is the main reason why the deadline is likely to be delayed a further six months until September 2008

[first posted to Jane's Defence Weekly - Your first line of defence - 10 October 2007]
 
.
delays, delays and more delays.

by the time those MRCA aircraft arrive they would have been delayed so much that it would be more logical to ship them off to the museum than to the airbases.
 
.
delays, delays and more delays.

by the time those MRCA aircraft arrive they would have been delayed so much that it would be more logical to ship them off to the museum than to the airbases.


Oh Man, How this MRCA will gonna get obsolete by the time when they arrive?
 
.
I dont think there is much to worry about the technology of the MRCA. It will be upgraded just like the SU-30mki's. Only thing is India will end up shelling out more and more money every few years for new upgrades.
 
.
Also by now I am sure everybody has heard about the T-50 PAK-FA russian project. India just agreed to pump in $5 billion into it..maybe even more. I am really impressed by whats going on with the Indian Air Force.

40 T-50's ( Atleast 40 will be delivered by 2015 )
126 The new MRCA deal
230 SU30MKIs
46 Mirage 2000 upgraded to new variants,
54 Mig 29 Fulcrums upgraded
46 Mig 29 Ks ( Aircraft carrier based)
52 Mig 21 Bisons
298 Mig 27ML, Mig 21FL/M/MF, Mig 23BN, Jaguar IS/IM
----
892

total combat aircraft..thats if the mig 21M/MFs survive that long. Considering the Mig 21's are phased out or converted into intermediate trainers, even a 600+ combat aircraft airforce is big especially with around 500 4.5 and 5 generation aircraft is very good. Will defintely be one of the best airforces in the world.

Ofcourse we Americans will still reserve the top spot. Lol

Plus the T-50s which should roll out in 10 years considering the Su-47 , on which it will be based is already testing.
 
.
Also by now I am sure everybody has heard about the T-50 PAK-FA russian project. India just agreed to pump in $5 billion into it..maybe even more. I am really impressed by whats going on with the Indian Air Force.

40 T-50's ( Atleast 40 will be delivered by 2015 )
126 The new MRCA deal
230 SU30MKIs
46 Mirage 2000 upgraded to new variants,
54 Mig 29 Fulcrums upgraded
46 Mig 29 Ks ( Aircraft carrier based)
52 Mig 21 Bisons
298 Mig 27ML, Mig 21FL/M/MF, Mig 23BN, Jaguar IS/IM
----
892

total combat aircraft..thats if the mig 21M/MFs survive that long. Considering the Mig 21's are phased out or converted into intermediate trainers, even a 600+ combat aircraft airforce is big especially with around 500 4.5 and 5 generation aircraft is very good. Will defintely be one of the best airforces in the world.

Ofcourse we Americans will still reserve the top spot. Lol

Plus the T-50s which should roll out in 10 years considering the Su-47 , on which it will be based is already testing.






Hey guy, see inducting T-50 in year of 2015 in IAF and that's even in 40 numbers, is quite wishful thinking on your part. Since T-50 is stealth aircraft which will be direct competitor to F-22 Raptor and F-35. Let the first flight take place, which will be scheduled to be in 2009/10, and then we will talk about induction in 2015 because still it is in drawing board. As Indians will be going to partner Russian in this ambitious project, it will be quite interesting to see how both this nation would be able to counter difficulties in due course of this project. Since the stealth technology is seems to be very difficult to master, even US found hard time in getting mastery in this tech. As well as Indians still struggling in getting reed of homegrown LCA, but off late it has accelerated. Looking at IAF past performance in evaluating aircraft parameter according to their need, it is quite unlikely that T-50 will get inducted in 2015. A lot depends upon Strategic and Political Climate as well prevailing in both this country, because recently Russian express their concern over India-US nuclear agreement deal. As you have mentioned IAF will still retain Mig-23 in inventory, let me ask you mig-23 is already phased out of the service.
 
.
also, u added Mig-29K to the list. Those are not for IAF, but for IN
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom