Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[sancho]

F16 CFTs with integrated probe-and-drogue refueling systems during flight tests:

P.S. I still expect PAF to get exactly these CFTs for their new F16 B52s, no matter if we choose F16IN, or not, because these will be available for export customers too.

 

[KEETARP]

My source? Didn't you posted his comments from another forum?

Regarding Mig 35, even if you don't think that the gentleman is reliable (which I don't take for granted either), would you expect any other reaction from Rosoboronexport? I mean several media reports claimed about 1, or 2 fighters needed modification, or even failing the trials, but so far all vendors said they did well in the trials right? So that report is not really negating the claims of him. If a fighter really failed for any technical reason, I expect real infos only after the shortlistings, but for sure not from the vendors.



No, I said all the Gripen NG can do so far, are flight testings only and that's what they did at Leh as well as in Sweden and the real MMRCA trials was done by Gripen Ds!
These included the trials at Leh with landing, engine restart and take off with heavy loads, as well as air refuelling (exactly what the Gripen NG did in may), but also weapon trials at Pokhran, or hot weather trials at Jaisalmer.
As the sources said, Saab offered IAF officials to fly the NG in Sweden, but weapon tests could only be done by the D's again.

We now have 3 different sources that confirms all the above mentioned (one even provided from you!) and the Livefist report clearly says trials at Leh, so you still want to refuse the reality?

Hey
what I meant by your source is , you are in contact with him ; not me .
And you believed his claims

Anyways - My bad "wrong choice of words"

So that report is not really negating the claims of him. If a fighter really failed for any technical reason, I expect real infos only after the shortlistings, but for sure not from the vendors.

No one failed in Trials . Media reports said 4 of 6 failed , while some one claimed all 4 had some minor problems . Nos were always four .
This Gentleman claims - F18 and Mig35 specifically failed .

Well , if you still want to believe F18 and Mig 35 failed -Your choice

expect real infos only after the shortlistings, but for sure not from the vendors.

Me too , but in btw you keep justifying his lines . If we believe Fanbyoz - Each of the Jet failed

We now have 3 different sources that confirms all the above mentioned (one even provided from you!) and the Livefist report clearly says trials at Leh, so you still want to refuse the reality?

If you go thru my prev post again , I said Missile integration is still not done in gripen . My post still lies there
Don't know where you get that impression from ???

Funny isn't it
When this same media claimed 2 Typhoons from German Sq demonstrated Weapon firing . You were first one to criticize media that only UK typhoons were certified for full A2G operations .

 

[KEETARP]

 

[sancho]

Hey
what I meant by your source is , you are in contact with him ; not me .
And you believed his claims

Anyways - My bad "wrong choice of words"

I didn't believed his claims right away and that's the reason I get in contact with. I wanted to get more infos before I build an opinion about him, or about what he said. It's always better to have several points of view right?

No one failed in Trials . Media reports said 4 of 6 failed , while some one claimed all 4 had some minor problems . Nos were always four .
This Gentleman claims - F18 and Mig35 specifically failed .

Well , if you still want to believe F18 and Mig 35 failed -Your choice

Never said that, actually I would be even surprised if the Mig had problems, but you can't counter him without a proof and that a vendor claims they did well is not surprising for me, that's all.

Funny isn't it
When this same media claimed 2 Typhoons from German Sq demonstrated Weapon firing . You were first one to criticize media that only UK typhoons were certified for full A2G operations .

Yes, because I knew it better from German Luftwaffe pilots, which were more reliable to me than that one report! Here instead, we have several different reports claiming the same, that Gripen D made the trials, not the NG. So I'm not claiming just like that, but backed it with sources!

 

[KEETARP]

Yes, because I knew it better from German Luftwaffe pilots, which were more reliable to me than that one report!

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/6027588.cms

Eurofighter chief executive Enzo Casolini told IANS here -

"The final phase of flight trials were conducted in Europe to test the fighter's cutting edge weapons systems and advanced sensors. The exercises included dropping precision guided munitions and launching air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles," Casolini added.
Eurofighter used two Typhoons of the German Air Force's squadron 73, which is based at Laage in northern Germany.

I mean someone is lying out of three -
Either your German Pilot
Or Eurofighter chief's interview was fake and written by media
or Eurofighter chief dosen't know about his Jet

As far as Gripen NG is concerned , I know they don't have missile integrated with demo version .
But if they didn't demonstrate LGB firing , they will be kicked out in first short-list itself .
Let us wait for short-list to see whether my source is correct about LGB dropping by NG is true or false .

 

[sancho]

Eurofighter to quote price for IAF order-Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times

Eurofighter chief executive Enzo Casolini told IANS here -



I mean someone is lying out of three -
Either your German Pilot
Or Eurofighter chief's interview was fake and written by media
or Eurofighter chief dosen't know about his Jet

As far as Gripen NG is concerned , I know they don't have missile integrated with demo version .
But if they didn't demonstrate LGB firing , they will be kicked out in first short-list itself .
Let us wait for short-list to see whether my source is correct about LGB dropping by NG is true or false .

See the German EFs replaced Mig 29s in the A2A role, they are one of the least develped EFs in the A2G role, unlike the UK EFs, that are the only one that integrated Litening pod. That's why it was planed from the begining that German EFs just do the flight tests in India, while weapon trials will be held by UK EFs in UK itself.
And if you go through the article you will find other mistakes too:

The IAF plans to acquire 18 of these in ready-to-fly condition, with the remaining 118 being manufactured by the Indian defence behemoth Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) under technology transfer and licensed production, to replace its ageing Russian MiG-21 fleet and enhance its strike capability...

... The consortium flew in three twin engine canard-delta wing Typhoons to the Bangalore international air show (Aero India) in Feb 2009 to showcase its awesome strike capabilities.

The licence production is for 108 not 118 fighters, Mig 21 was not in strike role and the German EFs attended AI 09 did flight shows, but no weapon showcase as they claim. The German EFs didn't even had PIRATE installed, let alone targeting pod and LGBs.

I guess I know, which of the 3 choices is the unreliable.

As far as I know Gripen NG has not integrated the Litening pod yet, because the pod station need to be modificated. Especially with the 2 new centerline stations the older pod station doesn't fit anymore. That's why you can see pics of the NG with 1000Kg LGBs on those stations, but no targeting pod, like the Gripen Ds use them.
As the name says it, it is just for demonstration of flight performance and possible future techs, not for doing such trials with all capabilities.

 

[SpArK]

$ 10 bn combat jet deal eyes strategic 'leverage'



The Indian Air Force is set to acquire 126 medium, multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) and the current talk in the Vayu Sena Bhavan is to "leverage strategic gains" out of the $ 10-billion deal.

As the compilation of the flight test results nears completion, the process of hard bargaining is set to begin.


A senior air force officer told Mail Today: "We should use the deal to get concessions on enrichment technology, and accessing dual use technologies that we are denied at the moment." However, before negotiations on these aspects are addressed, a few steps need to be taken first.

The first shortlist for the six types of aircraft-MiG-35, Rafale, Gripen, Eurofighter, F-16 and F/A 18 Super Hornet - will be prepared by the air force on the basis of "complying with the operational requirements of the Indian Air Force", an official explained.

As is the norm, senior air force officers have remained mostly tight-lipped about which aircraft have or haven't made the cut in terms of fulfilling the operational requirements, although some information seems to have trickled out regarding the flight tests wherein one or two of these six aircraft failed to develop "enough thrust" in the high altitude tests held at Leh.

After the air force lists the aircraft that have complied with its "technical" requirements, the ministry of defence will judge the "offset compliance" of the selected manufacturers. In simple terms, that would mean how much of the money would be ploughed back into the Indian economy.


The 'offset' requirement for the MMRCA deal is 50 per cent. This means that close to $ 5 billion would have to be reinvested into India by the company winning the bid.



After this, the "commercial bids" of each would be opened by the defence ministry mandarins, who will, for the first time, examine the commercial offers made by the companies more than two years ago.

For the first time, a new system of costfixing has been introduced that not only takes into account the unit prices but also calculates the 'life cycle costs'-which takes into account the cost of maintenance and spares for the period, estimated at 40 years, the aircraft would remain operational.



On the basis of this, the lowest bidder (L1) would be determined by a commercial negotiation committee headed by an additional secretary of the ministry. The committee will also have members of the service headquarters of the army, navy and air force. They would then conduct price negotiations with the L1 bidder to improve upon the initial offer.



Finally, a paper would be prepared for the Cabinet Committee on Security that would have to give its seal of approval and award the contract. It is at this stage, before the contract is awarded, that government-to-government negotiations would be conducted to get the best additional benefits for the country.


The sheer size of the MMRCA deal ensures that India will get a high level of attention from each of country vying for the largest defence contract in recent memory.

 

[sudhir007]

GRIPEN INDIA

 

[KEETARP]

Ok ,
Finally the time has come when first details of Technical Evaluation will be out - two major Indian defence blog sites promise to disclose details of report shortly

Chindits

Chinditis Suman Sharma

SATURDAY, JULY 31, 2010

Coming Up MMRCA Series, Chindits Accesses Copy Of RFP, Details Of Tech Eval Report !!

Shiv Aroor LIVEFIST -

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: Coming Up...

SATURDAY, JULY 31, 2010
Coming Up...
A round-up of all the rumours on India's MMRCA competition and where it's headed. Stay tuned.

 

[anathema]

^^ Not at all sure about Suman !! Shes just a pain.

I am still waiting for explosvie Arihant details -- that she tol she will reveal....Shiv -- i believe is just gossiping...lets see

 

[jha]

Ajai Shukla seems to be more reliable...but he is not too active these days...

And there seems to be some sort of competition going on between Suman and Shiv...

 

[anathema]

Ajai Shukla seems to be more reliable...but he is not too active these days...

And there seems to be some sort of competition going on between Suman and Shiv...

Yeah its true -- actually Suman publicly bitched about Shiv -- on BR --they had a fight for some reason and ever since this is going on !! ..anyways competition is always good for us !

 

[sancho]

Ok ,
Finally the time has come when first details of Technical Evaluation will be out - two major Indian defence blog sites promise to disclose details of report shortly

Chindits

Chinditis Suman Sharma




Shiv Aroor LIVEFIST -

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: Coming Up...

Will be an interesting week, but I hope they report about some details and not only estimations, orpersonal opinions. Especially livefist is often hypeing public opinion with their own, than really reporting.
Btw, any new infos about LCA MK2 engine? It's been some time till the technical evaluation finished, any relations to MMRCA here?

 

[amit27]

F18 SH + EF + Gripen NG = Final 3 in tender

 

[karan.1970]

F18 SH + EF + Gripen NG = Final 3 in tender

Is it a guess or news?? If news, source pl??