Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Chanakyaa]

Broadsword

by Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 16th Oct 09
New Delhi


The winner’s jackpot could soon become even bigger in what is already the world’s most lucrative fighter aircraft tender: India’s proposed purchase of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for an estimated Rs 51,000 crore ($11 billion).


The reason: a breakdown in India’s long-running negotiations with French aircraft manufacturer, Dassault Aviation, for upgrading 51 Indian Air Force Mirage-2000 fighters. According to senior IAF sources, Dassault has flatly refused to reduce its quote of Rs 10,000 crores (US $2.1 billion) for extending the service life of the IAF’s Mirage-2000 fleet by fitting new radars and avionics. The Ministry of Defence (MoD) considers this price --- Rs 196 crores (US $41 million) per aircraft --- unacceptably high, given that the airframes and engines will not be changed.


In comparison, each of the 126 brand-new, next-generation MMRCAs will cost some Rs 400 crores (US $87 million) per aircraft. That includes the cost of technology transfers, as well as capital costs for setting up a manufacturing line in India. Once those costs are amortised, additional MMRCAs would be significantly cheaper.


Dassault’s India head, Posina V Rao has not returned multiple phone calls from Business Standard. MoD sources say that Rao is engaged in last-ditch attempts to salvage the deal.


But, the MoD is veering around to the viewpoint that the Mirage-2000 fleet should continue service in its current form. After six squadrons (126 aircraft) of MMRCAs have entered IAF service, an additional two squadrons of MMRCAs would be built to replace the 51 Mirage-2000 fighters. That amounts to a 40% rise in the MMRCA’s numbers.


Israeli aerospace companies have reportedly entered the fray, offering to upgrade the Mirage-2000 for half the price being quoted by Dassault. The MoD, however, is not inclined to accept that offer.


Price negotiations for the Mirage-2000 upgrade have travelled a rocky road over the last two years. Initially, Dassault quoted Rs 13,500 crores (US $2.9 billion), which it brought down to the current level of Rs 10,000 crores (US $2.1 billion) after the IAF diluted its upgrade requirements. But the MoD believes Dassault’s reduced bid only reflects the diluted requirements, rather than any flexibility on the part of Dassault.


The IAF, traditionally a staunch supporter of Dassault and the Mirage-2000 fighter, is apparently changing its views. Dassault, say pilots, has badly damaged its credibility during the recent negotiations by arm-twisting the IAF over the supply of spares for the Mirage-2000 fleet.


The Gwalior-based IAF squadrons that currently fly the Mirage-2000 are Number 1 squadron (Tigers) and Number 7 squadron (Battle Axes).


Five of the six contenders for the MMRCA contract --- Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Eurofighter, Gripen and RAC MiG --- know they could reap handsome gains, through larger fighter orders, if India chooses not to upgrade the Mirage-2000. The sixth contender, Dassault Aviation, realises that failure to negotiate the Mirage-2000 upgrade contract could seriously damage the chances of its Rafale fighter in the MMRCA contract.


The fighters in contention for the MMRCA contract are sequentially undergoing flight trials and evaluation, which the IAF expects to complete by April 2010. It will take another six months to finalise the trial report and submit that to India’s MoD. The MoD will then announce the winner of the contract.

This is like Axing your own foot for Dassault.

 

[duhastmish]

Defence acquisitions to be made more transparent
Agencies, Tuesday October 27, 2009, New Delhi

The government will roll out a new defence procurement policy (DPP) Nov 1 in a bid to promote the Indian defence industry and bring transparency in acquisitions, Defence Minister A K Antony said Tuesday.

The reviewed DPP would also aim to promote joint ventures between foreign original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) and Indian companies.

"We are ready to promulgate DPP-2009 with effect from Nov 1," Antony said at a seminar on defence acquisition.

Under the DPP 2009:

* Broad contours of the 15-year armed forces acquisition plan will be made public
* Requests for Information (RFIs) on all acquisitions will be displayed on the Defence Ministry's website
* The role of independent monitors will be increaded to ensure probity in defence deals

Defence acquisitions to be made more transparent

 

[Screaming Skull]

Asked about field evaluation trials of the medium multi-role combat aircraft, Naik (ACM-IAF) said: 'We have finished the trials of F-16, F/A-18, Rafale and the MiG-35. All (aircraft) are going neck and neck'.

India should be front-runner in space technology: Air chief - Yahoo! India News

 

[sudhir007]

Old new I dnt know anyone post this or not ?

Eurofighter Typhoon -

NETMA (NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency), Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH and EUROJET Turbo GmbH signed today the production contract for a further 112 aircraft, including 241 engines, for the four partner Nations: Germany, Italy, Spain and the United Kingdom.

The Tranche 3 € 9 billion contract confirms Eurofighter Typhoon as the best selling defence aircraft on the market with 559 units under production contract, including 15 for Austria and 72 for Saudi Arabia.

Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH CEO Enzo Casolini commented: “This is a major achievement in the Eurofighter programme and serves to reaffirm the importance and the independence of the defence sector of the European industry. The agreement, achieved in conjunction with NETMA and the four Nations involved in the programme, will provide the Air Forces with the best asset available to address their requirements for both air-to-air and air-to-ground roles”.

EUROJET Managing Director Hartmut J. Tenter commented: “This is an outstanding success for the EUROJET programme and a clear signal to the international community endorsing the quality of the product. The EJ200 stands for leading-edge technology, including advanced integrated Health Monitoring to deliver class-leading reliability, maintainability and Through Life Cost—the benchmark of excellence”.

NETMA’s General Manager, Lt.Gen. Antonino Altorio remarked that “the capabilities of Tranche 3 aircraft consolidate the already excellent performances of Tranche 1 and 2 aircraft and will enable the Air Forces to carry out primary air defence in NATO missions as well as maintaining air superiority in theatres of operations and, if necessary, providing support in the air-to-ground role. This contract sets the baseline for consequent contracts for logistic support which is fundamental to keeping fleets available while reducing, significantly, the cost of in-service support”.

Today the Eurofighter programme not only represents the largest European industrial programme, supporting 100,000 jobs in 400 companies across Europe, but it is also the most advanced example of technology within the European industry base. It sets the standard in terms of best value for a new generation defence aircraft programme.

With the production of Eurofighter Typhoon, now being confirmed until well into the next decade, the future of the programme is assured and will maintain and develop the current technological capability in Europe, enhancing future export opportunities and giving the four partner Nations a significant return on their investments. Having already secured two export contracts with Austria in 2003 and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in 2007, Eurofighter Typhoon will continue to follow up all export opportunities.

Eurofighter and Eurojet Turbo consortia and their partner Companies are actively pursuing campaigns in Switzerland, India, Japan, Romania, Greece, Turkey and exploring possible opportunities in South Korea, Bulgaria, Croatia and other Nations.

 

[gogbot]

India should be front-runner in space technology: Air chief - Yahoo! India News

Performance wise All Aircraft are top notch.

what is to consider is the Garnish in this deal

1.Geo-political strategy

2. Any additional advantages offered in the Deal

The decision is squarely between the
F/A-18 SH
and
Euro Fighter.

 

[IBRIS]

Danish gov : No Gripen

Danish government as well as the oposition says Denmark will not chose the SAAB Gripen as their new fighter. The choice will be between Lockheed Martin and Boeing

No one even talks about the Swedish alternative sources say"
Taper også i Danmark - - Verden - Aftenposten.no

Sweden loses yet another fighter plane contract worth tens of billions of kroner. Also Denmark says no to-owned SAAB JAS 39 Gripen, according to key sources.

All indications are that the already highly compressed Swedish aircraft manufacturer already has crash-landed in the fight against two U.S. competitors to create new fighters for the Danish Air Force. Very central sources in both the government parties and the opposition says to Aftenposten that it's definitely not the JAS 39 Gripen. The decision is scheduled to be around New Year. Thus remains the favorite JSF from Lockheed Martin, who beat the Swedes in Norway for almost a year ago, and another flygigant in the United States: Boeing.

Including Norway.
It is important for the Danes that Norway last year chose JSF and had a negative assessment of the JAS 39 Gripen. The Swedes were not only outraged that Norway chose the other finalists. Industry Giant Saab and Swedish government was - and is - as stated above argument against the JAS Gripen. According to Stoltenberg government satisfied not Swedes requirements for new aircraft. Moreover, says the Norwegians that the Gripen is more expensive than the JSF. The math for how much, respectively, the Swedish and American aircraft would cost in the end, is very controversial. At the central government in the Danish decision-making process is still on the Norwegian price analysis:

"It is clear that the economic situation we are in, the price is a very important argument," said a very convenient source with regard to Norway's assessment and relate it to why the Danes turned thumbs down on the JAS Gripen.

-No talking about the Swedish option, "said the second well-placed political sources.

Vicious circle
. It could have been a breakthrough for the Swedes, have become a vicious circle. If NATO veteran Norway had chosen Jas Gripen, it would have been a reference value at least one fighter in gold for non-NATO country Sweden. It would also become an additional public relations effort to beat a strong competitor from the largest NATO country.

Instead of a domino effect which could have given a giant deal with such Danes, gave last year's Norwegian rejection rather than a loser stamp as well. This makes matters worse for the yellow and blue. If there's a miracle in the Danish final sprint, the Swedes are not only missing out on tens of billion again. All of the further development of the Swedish Air Force met with concern and questions. The pressure is enormous. Nerves affected the whole of the Swedish town of Linköping, where aircraft manufacturers are located, even before Norway was to decide last year.

But when they finally know from the Danes, there is reason to believe that the Swedish reaction is reinforced resignation rather than a repetition of the shock when the Norwegian judges voted the JAS 39 Gripen. The same can happen in The Netherlands. Ryker also have the Swedes really only three fingers back to bite nails with: India, Brazil and Switzerland are countries that can save Sweden's future fighter aircraft manufacturer.

More expensive alone.
The Swedes planned to develop its final version, together with such Norway and Denmark. "If Norway chooses Gripen, Sweden will accelerate further development so that the Swedish Air Force have a number of aircraft already before Norway get their deliveries," said SAAB vice president with responsibility for flyvirksomheten, Lennart Sindahl Aftenposten last November.

He admitted that it would be "clearly cheaper" if more countries sharing the costs of further development. That Denmark also turns his back to the JAS Gripen can make it difficult for the Swedes to be cutie brother in the Nordic defense cooperation, as in other areas have become closer in recent years.

SAAB is caught in a vicious circle. The company is already under a lot of pressure, and if India, Brazil and Switzerland also turns them down their days as a fighterplane manufacturer is numbered.

 

[gogbot]

SAAB was out from the start

They had no chance.

There was nothing to be gained by Inducting the Gripen

The Only reason IAF was even interested was because PAF also considered the plane. And IAF most likely wanted to know what they were dealing with.

As has been speculated
The race is down to the European consortium , and Boeing.
Now i would of gone with the Euro Fighter a week ago But Boeing has come out with a whole list of side offers on otherwise unrelated deals.

HAL to produce crucial parts of Boeing-777s

fullstory

Boeing submits proposals to IAF for Apache, Chinook choppers

Now all this just begs me to wonder, are these part of a massive overall strategy by Boeing to Gain a massive foothold in the Indian defense Market.

We all know what Euro fighter is offering, Partnership and the EJ2000 engine for the LCA. Nothing much has changed on that Deal



But

Boeing has kicked it up a notch. They offer :

Boeing has proposed joint manufacture of the jets with Indian partners. It also plans to offset the cost by setting up a US$100 million maintenance and training hub in Nagpur. On 14 February 2008, Boeing and Tata Industries agreed to form a joint-venture company. The new entity, which will be formed in June 2008, will supply components for Boeing military aircraft, including the Super Hornet.

In order to satisfy its offset requirements, Boeing has signed long-term partnership agreements with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Tata Industries, and Larsen and Toubro, who will play a significant role in production and assembly of the aircraft.

well that meets the TOT guideline for both India and the US

The GE-F414 engine for the LCA.

THE Apache Longbow helicopter

The Chinook Helicopter

And as it appears Boeing may use its massive Civilian aviation Industry to offer further incentive's to swing the Deal in its favor


But i still think we should go for the Euro fighter and EJ-200 engine with TV for the LCA.


However with still more than a Years worth of trials still sceduled



And



are interested in bringing a lot more to the Plate, In order to put this deal in the Bag

 

[SQ8]

Superbug all the way, It suits the MRCA template more than anything else. And currently offers the best A2A/A2G load carrying capabilities, along with the added benefit of having an engine compatible with the LCA. plus Im dying to see it in IAF colors..even if I am on the opposing side.

 

[holysaturn]

Superbug all the way, It suits the MRCA template more than anything else. And currently offers the best A2A/A2G load carrying capabilities, along with the added benefit of having an engine compatible with the LCA. plus Im dying to see it in IAF colors..even if I am on the opposing side.

thats right.the SH has battle tested capabilities which other manufacturers tend to achieve by 2012 or so.......thus basically it is the lowest risk option.(now even usaf is considering it as stop gap before jsf arrives).

 

[hembo]

Boeing ready for production of fighter jets in India
Wed, Oct 28 07:42 PM

New Delhi, Oct 28 (IANS) After successfully completing trials for the contract of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft with India, US firm Boeing Wednesday announced its intention to transfer technology to build F/A-18IN Super Hornet fighter jets in India.

'We fully intend for Super Hornet to be built in India,' said Boeing Military Aircraft Integrated Defence Systems president Christopher M. Chadwick here.

While Russia has been giving technology transfer to India more readily, US firms have a strict code when it comes to technology transfer to their customers.

'We plan to build 18 aircraft in the US and from the 19th aircraft it will be built in India.... we will continue transfer of technology to India so that they not only assemble but make lots of part of the aircraft in India.... actually building the aircraft here,' Chadwick added.

With the approval of US Congress required, the transfer of technology could actually be a key element in deciding the winner of the competition for the whopping Indian contract.

Boeing's F/A-18IN has completed first two phases of trials for the Indian Air Force.

The first phase was completed in the US and the second at Bangalore, Jaisalmer and Leh.

The third phase trials will be held in February 2010 in the US.

The other aircraft in the fray for the IAF's $10 billion order are the Lockheed Martin F-16I Super Viper, the Dassault Rafale, the Saab Gripen, the Russian MiG-35, and the European consortium EADS Eurofighter Typhoon.

The IAF plans to acquire 18 aircraft in fly-away conditions, with the rest being manufactured by HAL under a technology transfer deal. The aircraft are meant to replace the IAF's ageing fleet of MiG-21 that were inducted in the 1960s.

 

[marcos98]

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: [Vishnu Som] Update On Boeing Super Hornet Pitch
Boeing and its F/A-18 industry partners Raytheon, GE and Northrop-Grumman held a press conference in Delhi on Wednesday. Friend and NDTV associate editor VISHNU SOM was there and has been kind enough to send LiveFist this update on what happened:

As far as the transfer of source codes for AESA is concerned, Boeing is still at the "can't discuss in an open forum, lets see how this plays out" mode. At the same time, the fact that India has agreed to the US end user agreement during Hillary Clinton's visit here means that the full-up Super Hornet IN, inclusive of the upgraded GE F414 engine, the APG-79 AESA and other key systems are cleared for transfer. So it's quite possible that the version of the AESA offered will be full-spec. In fact, I am sure, India would not accept anything less than that.

Secondly, February 2010 is the big date for the IAF and the next phase of the Hornet There will be an evaluation of the following: 1. Mission systems flight evaluation 2. AESA 3. FLIR 4. EW 5. Weapon delivery 6. Maintenance evaluation 7. Technical evaluation.

All this will be done at the Naval Air Station Lemoore in California, the same base from where I flew the second of my Super Hornet sorties. Boeing reps repeatedly state that the AESA will be evaluated in conjunction with other systems, ie, the data link, FLIR etc to showcase the full package.

As far as AESA is concerned, the Boeing-Raytheon team seemed to take on their European rivals who are still developing/integrating their product. They explained how it took eight years for the APG-79 to move from low rate initial production to first operational deployment. The dates are as follows: June 2003 Low rate initial production / December 2006 Operational evaluation completed / December 2007 Initial Operational clearance & Full scale production approval and May 2008 First operational deployment.

The APG-79 has 1,000-hours mean time between failures (MTBF), more than 75,000 operational flight hours, it's been approved for sale to India and will be sustained in US service beyond 2035. The proposed GE F414 EPE (Enhanced Performance Engine) for India offers a 20 per cent increase in thrust and a 1 per cent reduction in fuel burn. The F414 is itself in the 22,000-lb thrust class, 170 lb/second airflow. Engine change is done in under 30 minutes, interchangeable left and right engine installation. No need for a functional check flight after engine change. No throttle restrictions while in operation (I have personally witnessed this, it's amazing -- you can pretty much do what you want with the throttle, slam it to burner and take it back as much as you want ... nothing happens).

Boeing says it WILL offer the Indian Air Force an out and out 9G fighter -- this has been a promise made by the Boeing team. I was led to believe this involves changes in the flight control system, though the airframe itself is OK for 9G.

The pitch -- this is a rugged, proven, operational platform, which is now available to India at a cost NOT too much over its single engine competitors in the MMRCA race. As far as their performance in the trials in Bangalore are concerned, they say that they are satisfied with what they were able to demonstrate to the Indian Air Force but reiterate that its the IAF which has to be satisfied. Thats it for the moment folks.

---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------

 

[sancho]

well that meets the TOT guideline for both India and the US

The GE-F414 engine for the LCA.

THE Apache Longbow helicopter

The Chinook Helicopter

And as it appears Boeing may use its massive Civilian aviation Industry to offer further incentive's to swing the Deal in its favor

I don't think that this will be a major point for Boeing, because producing parts in India doesn't mean we get any useful ToT. Also EADS/Airbus is offering pretty much the same amount of deals to India, if not more!

Parts of Airbus planes are already produced in India and in the last months there were reports of outsorcing up to 20% of the production to India.

They are offering EF, with producing avionic parts for all EFs in India

The best engine for LCA and assistance to fix problems

Tiger seems to be out, but Fennec LUH ist still a frontrunner

A330 MRTT which is shortlisted in the tanker competition

NH90, or 725 Super Cougar to replace Sea Kings of IN as ASW helicopters

C 235/295 MPA for IN and the CG

If I'm not wrong also an air defense suit for Dhruv


And the best is, except the EF and it's engine for LCA, everything should be on offer with Rafale too, because Germany and France are the major sharholders of EADS.

 

[Gideon]

thus basically it is the lowest risk option.(now even usaf is considering it as stop gap before jsf arrives).

The USAF never had the SH. It was always the USN.

 

[Gideon]

I don't think that this will be a major point for Boeing, because producing parts in India doesn't mean we get any useful ToT. Also EADS/Airbus is offering pretty much the same amount of deals to India, if not more!

Even if you forget about all the rest of the bells and whistles. You still get an amazing deal with Boeing. By transferring production to India, you would have no problems with spares and stuff.

Also, you are forgetting that with aquisition of the SH the Indian Air Force gets access to a whole gamut of new weapons and systems like JDAMs, bunker bursters, ERAMs, etc etc. Just an order of hundreds of JDAM's should be able to convert all those free fall Russian bombs into Laser designated weapons!

Plus, if you consider the F-18 G electronic warfare variant as a future purchase as well, you could defeat many air defense radars and boost your capabilities immensely without having another additional airframe to bother about!

Finally, with the entry of Boeing into the Indian military's supplier list, down the road when the JSF becomes much more cheaper and more readily available India could possibly consider its advanced Block-2 or 3 acquisition when you retire the Mirages, the Migs without the need to establish another whole new support base.

 

[Insane]

I feel need to have a US Airplane in our fleet in good numbers and F/A-18 is a pretty good one, plus this is a good move in development of relationships with US.

What is evident that all 6 are good planes but Lockheed Martin and SAAB seem out of it already. Their campaign ain't going anywhere. MiG has very less chances. That's 3 down.

Most people seem to be debating between Eurofighter, Rafale and F/A-18 but I think GOI should go for F/A-18 and from the development of competition it looks like there is a good chance that Boeing might just win it.

BTW we are wasting too much time with the trials. And after this time is gone it looks like Boeing is the best choice to deliver the plane in time. ( Which i think is critical). We need to have this running by 2015.