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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

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L’Armée de l’air, an Instrument of Power for France
SALON DU BOURGET 2013


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one interesting find that caught my attention

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interesting concept if indeed happens in future with SPECTRA NG guiding cruise missiles from
a stand off range

CHEERS
 
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but sadly again i want to state nowhere did i find mini awacs cant be used for offensive ( enemy's air space)

Guess why the IAF used the Flankers seperated from the Mig 27s and why the Bisons escorted them? IAF could simply had used the Flankers to escort and provide radar data right? So when they purposely decided to seperate the mini AWACS from the strike package and their escorts, do you really think that was done for no reason?
The fact is right there, even in your own sources, you just have to understand that the priority is to remain undetected as long as possible when you send strike packages behind enemy lines and remaining behind and support them "just" with radar data without making them vulnerable is the better thing to do. As I said before, that changes only with FGFA, since we then can modify the tactics benefiting from the low detectability of the fighter even in active roles.

your saying we would be using LCA for escorting rafale in foreign land eg CHINESE airspace

Please read up propperly and don't invent things. Where in that post did I mention Chinese airspace? I only related the same tactics IAF has shown in that exercise with older fighters, to the future fighter fleet and the modern capabilities it will have. And LCA as the replacement of the Mig 21s, but with far better passive detection and low detectability can easily take over the escort role in future, that however doesn't mean that IAF would use deep penetration missions against China, where simply more Rafales would be more effective.

IRST is not used for early warning as it is used for targeting basically

Exactly, that's why IRST won't make a difference unless you have detected a target, be it via radar or signals. Only then you point your nose and sensors towards the target to identify it. That's why an FGFA with an AESA that has LPI modes will be very hard to detect by any Chinese fighter, unless it flys head to head in a very close distance. The importance of AWACS and mini AWACS however is, to detect a target at long distance and to a wide field of view, that's why they use active radar and passive RWRs as their main sensors and not IRST.
And since we talk about the Rafale here, in passive mode it's prime sensors are the SPECTRA EW sensors, for long range and wide field of view detection. When a target is detected, the fighter will point it's nose to the target, to use FSO to gain more data and identify it. Which again shows, which again shows that the IRST / TV channel are the secondary sensors only.

without the use of Electronic Warfare in case of Non stealthy fighters with {EFTS & PGMS/CRUISE MISSILES}no matter how low you fly plus whether you are in active or passive mode

Who said they wouldn't use EW? The point was, that you use an active high flying fighter (at safe distances) to lure the enemy defences to be actived, while a low flying passive fighter will remain as undetectable as possible, while closing in to the target. That again shows, that the mini AWACS role is done in seperation to the actual striker!

citing one or two examples doesnt prove that it would work always in other scenario also.

But it shows the reality and not only assumptions, that's the difference! It shows that even the most advanced AWACS aircrafts, with the most advanced fighters next to it, can't prevent attacks against you, without the propper addition of multiple different radar working together and that you need a propper AWACS coverage to all areas. That's why we need not only the most advanced Phalcon AWACS, but enough AWACS platforms to provide propper coverage of the border areas in the first place. That added with netcentric linking of ground radars, aerostatos or fighters in Mini AWACS roles will give you a high level of protection and not the assumption that AWACS can detect everything.

Hey wait a minute
you have twisted my post to post totally another thing. The previous post was for AWACS basically when did i say it cant carry cruise missile .

Again please read propperly, in this case the part I quoted from you, where you stated:

we wont be having in offensive scenario in their land

So that is the part I refered to be wrong, which it clearly is, since the importance of improved strike capabilities with MMRCA and MKI beyond the borders can't actually be denied anymore and I am not even talking about cruise missiles, but about actual offensive strikes of the fighters, no matter what kind of weapon they will use.
 
I was just showing the difference in the approach of the two sets of professionals when it comes their homegrown aircraft.

If they had faced the same trouble with Rafale that IAF did with LCA, they probably would, but they didn't so their reaction to having one of the best 4.5th gen fighters in the world, that is inducted in high numbers since a decade (pretty much the same timeframe IAF wanted to start LCA induction), that successfully has proven it's worth in war times is nothing but logical, while the dissappointment about LCAs current state from IAF's point of view is logical as well. The only point that IAF should had avoided is, these constant referals to the Mig 21, because that doesn't propperly show the worth that LCA can have, if it is fully developed.

What stops French pilots from bitching to the media about the how underpowered the engine is or the low number of modules on Rafale's radar among other things ?

Maybe because it isn't underpowered at all (one of the highest TWRs, SC capability, exellent performance in the UAE climate against the F22 or in Libya with heavy loads..., that myth really should be busted by now), or the fact that they prefer to use it's exceptional passive sensors over the radar. It is not perfect and I don't think even the French would say so, but it is without any doubt one of the best fighters currently, with a lot of unique and high end capabilities that sets it apart. Things we simply can't say from LCA at the moment, even if it has good potential for a light class fighter.

Isn't it enough that ADA and DRDO denied the realities about how capable they are for decades and that only for pride reasons? Do we really need our forces to be as irrational about LCA as well?
 
interesting concept if indeed happens in future with SPECTRA NG guiding cruise missiles from
a stand off range

That's nothing new about SPECTRA, but about a different approach in SEAD than the US has and we already have seen that in Libya. The point is, that the Americans uses dedicated EW fighters to detect air defences and take out radars, while other fighters with glide or normal PGMs would take out the missiles. The Rafale on the other side, can do it all alone and with the AASM in a single attack. Detecting and pinpointing the target via SPECTRA and Damocles, attacking the radar and the missiles with the same weapon from stand off ranges in a single pass. For longer ranges SPECTRA target data can be diverted to Scalp cruise missiles too, the problem however lies in the huge gap between AASM with 60Km and Scalp with 290+ Km. That's where SPEAR 3 or SPICE 250s kind of weapons will bring in more capability from even better ranges than AASM, including more versatility in the attack itself.

The brits plan with the EF as a replacement for their SEAD specific Tornados, which is why they want to add Electronic Attack capabilities to the Captor E AESA, as well as SPEAR 3 missiles next to Storm Shadow, to add long range attack capability at high or low level approaches. They already have proven to be able to detect air defence radars with their current EWS in Libya, but didn't had the capabilities to attack them.
 
@ Sancho you are right, Rafale isn't perfect! Just a very coherent weapon system...
 
@ Sancho you are right, Rafale isn't perfect! Just a very coherent weapon system...

No fighter is, not even the F22 that is considered as the best fighter in the world. But when you want a highly advanced non stealth fighter, with true multi role capabilities today and can afford it, there is nothing better on the market than the Rafale.
 
Dassault chief to visit Delhi to discuss delay in MMRCA deal

The chief of French firm Dassault Aviation SA, which has been selected for supplying 126 medium-multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) to the Indian Air Force (IAF), will be in New Delhi later this week to meet top defence ministry officials to discuss delays in finalization of the multi-billion dollar contract. The firm was selected two years back by India for supplying 126 Rafale medium-multi-role combat aircraft to the Air Force. The firm’s chief executive officer (CEO) Eric Trippier is scheduled to meet top defence ministry officials to discuss issues related to finalization of the much-delayed contract, sources said. India and the French firm have been discussing the deal for over two years. The negotiations have lately slowed down over some issues, including the imposition of liquidity damages or penalties for any delays in the supply of the aircraft to be manufactured in the country. The cost of the biggest-ever single deal is also likely to come up for discussion during the two sides...

Dassault chief to visit Delhi to discuss delay in MMRCA deal - Livemint
 
He is indeed in India. To discute delays is disputable... But i didn't say anything.
 
They bombed yesterday. destroyed 5 stationary targets as they used only 4 gbu12, probably ammos depots. In coordination with an Atlantique 2 doing ISR
 
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