Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[sancho]

Rafales at Jodhpur #Garuda5 air exercise

Source: Livefist twitter

 

[Abingdonboy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/473442065859084288

The 2 in the front look like F3s, the so no AESA, DDM NG, or other latest upgrades to showcase the IAF, not sure about the others.

hmmm- a water cannon salute by the IAF, very interesting. Like the IAF is welcoming its own fighters home. I certainly have never seen a water salute being given to F-16s, F-15s or EFTs who have come to train with the IAF.

Just an observation

 

[sancho]

Correction, added a higher resolution pic, the 2 in the front look like F3s, the latter seems to have DDM NG, the question now is, does it have AESA or not. Also interesting, all of them twin seaters and quiet unusual fuel tank configurations, with a supersonic fuel tank on the centerline and subsonic fuel tanks at the wings.

 

[atlssa]

Correction, added a higher resolution pic, the 2 in the front look like F3s, the latter seems to have DDM NG, the question now is, does it have AESA or not. Also interesting, all of them twin seaters and quiet unusual fuel tank configurations, with a supersonic fuel tank on the centerline and subsonic fuel tanks at the wings.

They all look like the same, with no sensors.
Lets compare.

 

[sancho]

They all look like the same, with no sensors.
Lets compare.

What do you mean? Your pic is showing a Mirage 2000 and a Rafale

 

[atlssa]

What do you mean? Your pic is showing a Mirage 2000 and a Rafale

Just compare the Rafale front view on both pics

 

[sancho]

Just compare the Rafale front view on both pics

The front is identical at any Rafale, but you can make out the different standards by checking the DDM sensors for example. The latest F3+ has the DDM NG in the EW pod on top of the tail fin, with the round spherical sensor, that's why the 3rd Rafale might be an F3+, while the 2 in the front are older versions

 

[atlssa]

The front is identical at any Rafale, but you can make out the different standards by checking the DDM sensors for example. The latest F3+ has the DDM NG in the EW pod on top of the tail fin, with the round spherical sensor, that's why the 3rd Rafale might be an F3+, while the 2 in the front are older versions

I see!
Thank you!

 

[cloud_9]

MMRCA deal: Rafale negotiations expected to be wrapped up in 3 months​

NEW DELHI: India is closer to finally sealing the almost $20 billion MMRCA (medium multirole combat aircraft) project to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters, which IAF has identified as a top-priority for the Narendra Modi government.

Defence ministry sources said the final commercial negotiations for the MMRCA project, which IAF considers "critical" to retain its air combat edge against Pakistan and maintain "dissuasive deterrence" against China, can now "be wrapped up in the next three months".

In the backdrop of IAF making do with just 34 fighter squadrons, when at least 44 are required, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha called on PM Modi on Monday, barely a few days after he briefed finance and defence minister Arun Jaitley. On Tuesday, the IAF chief will again make "a detailed presentation" to Jaitley on the operational preparedness and different modernization projects of his force.

The worry is that the final negotiations with French aviation major Dassault for the MMRCA project have proceeded at a slow pace since Rafale was "down-selected" over its rivals in January 2012.

Sources, however, said the work of three subcommittees dealing with technical maintenance (IAF will fly the fighters for 40 years), offsets (Dassault will have to plough back 50% of the contract value back into India) and transfer of technology (ToT) has now been completed.

Under the MMRCA project, the first 18 jets will come in "fly-away condition", while Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd is to manufacture 108 fighters in India over six years. In fact, after months of wrangling, Dassault and HAL could finalize the work-share agreement only in February this year, under which the defence PSU will now have a 70% role.

"With offsets, work-share, warranty, liquidity damages and other issues resolved, the CNC (contract negotiation committee) now has to settle the final costs before the draft contract can be readied for the government's final approval," said a source.

If the MMRCA project is inked in the next few months, the first 18 jets will come to India from mid-2016 onwards. The jets built by HAL, in turn, are expected to begin rolling out from 2018 onwards. HAL will initially deliver six jets per year, which will go up to 20 per year later.

When the MMRCA selection process was initiated by MoD in mid-2007, the overall project cost was pegged at Rs 42,000 crore or $10.4 billion for 126 fighters. But with inflation being factored in, it could zoom upwards of the $20 billion mark by the time it's completed.

 

[IND151]

MMRCA deal: Rafale negotiations expected to be wrapped up in 3 months | idrw.org

 

[IND151]

Livefist: Indian Rafale Deal Final By September. Any Breaths Held?

 

[halloweene]

For the records, I prefer the Rafale.

As do an independant Brazilian test pilot i know.

METEOR is coming on EF clearly before it comes on Rafale

No, sorry don't confuse integration of Meteor and F3-R software standard. First live shots with Meteor in Jan 2015 on Rafale.

range, compared to Rafale with AASM of course, that will make the EF more vulnerable, but with Brimstone and SPEAR 3 on the line, the prospect in CAS and even SEAD looks clearly brighter for the EF, than for the Rafale.

Yes Brimstone is a strongpoint. BUT PIV is not only rangeless, it is also less versatile. Try to lauch 6 PIV in a single salvo on 6 different targets on a 180° area... Same for spear 3.. (funded btw?)

 

[sancho]

First live shots with Meteor in Jan 2015 on Rafale.

Just like the first live test of Brimstone on EF is planned for 2015, to be available in operational service in 2018, while the METEOR at Rafale integration is aimed at 2018 and the F3R upgrade.

Try to lauch 6 PIV in a single salvo on 6 different targets on a 180° area... Same for spear 3.. (funded btw?)

As already said, that is a specific capability of AASM that only offers advantages in SEAD, but PW IV is not meant for that role but for CAS, the same role where even French forces and Rafales use GBU 49s and not AASM. So it's pointless to show off a capability of AASM, that has nothing to do with the role. AASM in CAS, had mainly the advantage of attacking different targets at the same time in a single pass and that from stand off distances. The latter remains and advantage over PW IV or GBU 49, the earlier however is not anymore.

 

[atlssa]

India to seal deal for Rafale jets within three months - paper
NEW DELHI Tue Jun 3, 2014 5:55pm IST

A Rafale jet fighter is seen on the assembly line in the factory of French aircraft manufacturer
Dassault Aviation in Merignac near Bordeaux, southwestern France, January 10, 2014.
Credit: Reuters/Benoit Tessier/Files
​

(Reuters) - India expects to seal a close to $20 billion deal to buy 126 fighter jets from France's Dassault Aviation within three months, a newspaper reported on Tuesday, as part of a $100 billion defence modernisation plan.

Completion of the deal would mean the first 18 Rafale jets arriving from mid-2016, with manufacture of the remaining 108 beginning in India in 2018, the Times of India said, citing defence ministry sources.

New Delhi had picked the Rafale fighters for exclusive negotiations in January 2012, but a plan to finalise the deal by March this year was postponed after India's military exhausted its capital budget.

A defence ministry official said the new government had just moved into position and it was too early to talk about wrapping up the jet fighter negotiations.

"The report is speculative, the defence minister has not applied his mind to the issue as yet. He is busy with budget meetings," the official said.

Dassault declined to comment.

India, the world's biggest arms importer, is in the midst of a $100 billion defence modernisation programme to replace Soviet-era planes and tanks, and narrow the gap with China, with which it fought a war in 1962.

But the upgrade programme moved slowly under the last government, partly because of the then-defence minister's insistence on transparency and integrity in defence procurement, long dogged by allegations of kickbacks.

Newly-elected Prime Minister Narendra Modi is keen to boost domestic defence manufacturing and cut imports. Finance Minister Arun Jaitley, also in charge of defence, is studying proposals to allow more foreign direct investment in the sector.

Technical negotiations on the Rafale order were concluded in March and financial talks are under way. The company has said previously that it hopes to sign a deal by the end of the year.

India to seal deal for Rafale jets within three months - paper| Reuters

 

[halloweene]

What worries me is that three subcommitees were nominated and they may compete each other...