Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[SpArK]

Commercial discussions are continuing with Dassault because of which a specific time frame cannot be provided for the delivery of the Rafale combat planes, Defense Minister A.K. Antony told a lawmaker in the lower house of Parliament Monday...

Every day for 5 minutes they go meet Dassault guys and talk about the commercials in French TV channels and come back.

 

[Kloitra]

@Sergi, I think me and @sancho are on different page, but we do agree on upgrades and replacement with FGFA!

 

[sancho]

The Chinese episode would now lead to some haste in MMRCA as well the MSC along with the infra buildup in the relevant areas.

Positive impact.

Depends, our side will remain on HAL being the prime contractor and Dassault being responsible, since that was written in the RFP. On the other side, this might increase the chances of more Rafales and more directly from France which can be inducted earlier.

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[SR-91]

Depends, our side will remain on HAL being the prime contractor and Dassault being responsible, since that was written in the RFP. On the other side, this might increase the chances of more Rafales and more directly from France which can be inducted earlier.

From your mouth to BABU's ears!!!

 

[IND151]

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...tAl5xMYRovmFtXCQ62CV4PQ&bvm=bv.45960087,d.bmk

 

[IND151]

Of course there is, but not everbody keeps in mind that the M2K most likely is one of our nuklear strike options and that it most likely will get further upgrades in that direction as well (specialised avionics and stuff). But apart from that, the sheer ammount of ignoring of facts about this upgrade deal in comparison to other things is amazing.

Originally Posted by neehar
@sancho does the upgrade of mki from 2015 as u mentioned also includes asea and al-41?

AESA yes, but it's not clear if Zhuk or BARS, engine upgrades were never mentioned yet, but the recent procurement of high numbers of AL 31 hints in a clear direction.



Are we? How do you expect M2K to fight JF 17B1 or J10A today without BVR capability? Without RCS reductions? Without HMS and modern WVR missiles? So even today they lack behind and to cover that, for the use of another 10 to 15 years, they need life extention and modernisations.
The Jags as I often say are next to useless, with every multi role fighter we are adding to the fleet, since they all will be prefered in the strike from now onwards, which is why, it would have been wiser, to limit the Darin 3 upgrade to basics only and try to sell off the latest Jags to Afghanistan or similar countries.

Rafales instead Mirage is possible, since we procure it in MMRCA anyway, but the costs are several times higher than the Mirage upgrade and why would we replace it with a 4.5 gen fighter, when the aim is to replace it with a 5th gen fighter in future (FGFA)?

Most of you guys simply say the upgrade is costly, by looking only at the figure, but without seeing the whole picture of what IAF has in mind and what the other costs really would be. The $900 millions for Migs doesn't include the engine, or avionics costs, which means at the end it's more like $2.1 billion for Mirage and more than $1.5 billions for the Migs.
Doesn't look that much different anymore does it?


Not possible, once because Israel can't provide the overhaul and modernisation of the airframe, nor can Derby be used at any other hardpoints that the wet stations, which means, it would be limited to a single fuel tank and just 2 derbys.

Is this new batch of AL-31 will come with 15,000 kg thrust?

We definitely need more powerful engines for Super MKI as AESA demand more power

And with increased thrust Super MKI will have Thrust to Weight Ratio of 1.2 against 1 for MKI(as thrust will go up from 25,00 kg to 30,000 kg)

On Topic> hope deal gets signed soon

 

[sancho]

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...tAl5xMYRovmFtXCQ62CV4PQ&bvm=bv.45960087,d.bmk

When Dassault can work with an Indian team on the Mirage upgrade, which then will help HAL to do it in India alone, why can't they do the same with Rafale? Why aren't they concerned about the standarts of HAL for the Mirage upgrade?

Could it be that parts of the Rafale that HAL will produce, are meant not only for India, but also for further Rafale exports? Would Dassault then be happier with Reliance, where they can decide how the production will be done?

Is this new batch of AL-31 will come with 15,000 kg thrust?

No informations are out yet, not even if the Super 30 upgrade will have an upgrade or not.

Impossible to set time frame for MMRCA deal: Antony

Union Defence Minister A K Antony on Monday said it was not possible to set a time frame for signing the much-awaited deal for the Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) with French company Dassault Aviation...

...“Given the complexity of the proposal, no definite time frame can be fixed at this stage (for signing the deal),” Antony said in a written reply in Parliament...

Impossible to set time frame for MMRCA deal: Antony - The New Indian Express

 

[JohnyD]

(Reuters) - India's plan to buy 126 fighter-jets from Dassault Aviation (AVMD.PA) could be delayed as the two sides struggle to reach an agreement over the role of state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), two sources familiar with the matter said.

India picked the Dassault-made Rafale jet for exclusive negotiations in January 2012 after a hotly contested bidding war with rival manufacturers, but it is still to finalize the $15 billion deal, one of the world's largest defense import orders.

Under the initial terms of the proposed deal, Dassault was expected to provide 18 fighters in "fly-away" condition, and then let HAL manufacture the rest in India.

However, Dassault now wants two separate contracts to be signed - one for the ready-made ones, and another for the rest to be built by HAL, but India opposes that proposal, an Indian Defense Ministry official told Reuters.

"Dassault says HAL does not have the capacity and capability to assemble the aircraft," said the official, who declined to be identified because he is not authorized to speak to the media.

"HAL is our main public sector partner. And if needed, capacity and capabilities can be improved. But the proposal for two contracts is not agreeable to the government of India," he said.

The source said the dispute would likely delay finalizing the deal but not derail it. Indian Defense Ministry officials had earlier expressed the hope that the deal could be finalized by July.

"This kind of deal is complex. This issue is slowing down negotiations. The disagreement is on who guarantees the quality of the planes produced in India, HAL or Dassault," another source close to the matter said.

NEGOTIATIONS STALLED?

Dassault has declined to comment on the substance of the negotiations but has said it expects the deal to be signed before the end of 2013.

Dassault has agreed to supply manufacturing kits and equipment to HAL on time, but will not play a further role in manufacturing after that, the Indian Express newspaper said on Friday.

Negotiations between the company and the Indian government have completely stopped over the disagreement, the paper reported, without identifying its sources.

A Defense Ministry spokesman did not have any immediate comment.

According to a preliminary agreement between Dassault and the government, HAL will make 108 Rafale jets in India, while parts will be delivered by Dassault and its partners, Thales (TCFP.PA), Europe's largest defense electronics group, and aerospace group Safran (SAF.PA).

India, the world's biggest arms importer, plans to spend about $100 billion over the next 10 years upgrading its mostly Soviet-era military hardware.

However, a recent push by the Defense Ministry to increase local manufacturing of military equipment has renewed concerns about whether Indian companies have the advanced technology and trained staff to build sophisticated Defense equipment.

Dassault has previously expressed doubts about the technological capability of HAL to manufacture the Rafale. A HAL program to manufacture advanced jet trainers is running years behind schedule.

Rafale defeated the Eurofighter Typhoon to win the Indian government deal. The Typhoon is developed by a consortium of BAE Systems (BAES.L), Finmeccanica (SIFI.MI) and EADS (EAD.PA).

India's $15 billion Rafale deal faces delays: sources | Reuters

 

[sancho]

It's funny to see the media panicing, when all official sides say, the negotiations are going well.

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Liquidmetal]

Stunning aircraft.