Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Birbal]

France's Dassault beats BAE Systems to clinch Indian government fighter jet contract - Telegraph

see the comments and frustration among brits
even they are discussing poverty like our neighbors

You should have seen how crazy they went after Russia wiped them out in the 2018 World Cup Hosting bid.

 

[cyphercide]

Nahi!!! Rafaleboiz and their omnipotence won.....Is it too late to abandon the EFT camp?

Kudos to all those who got it right but as they say "At the end of the day,all the chess pieces go back in the same box".I would like to suggest an offshoot to that expression;

It doesn't matter who was pining for which bird as long as at the end of day,the best one sits proudly in an IAF hangar!!!

 

[sancho]

But would Rafale be upgraded with thrust vectoring?? and what would be the cost per unit after this up-gradation?

It is reported that TVC could be a future upgrade for the M88 engines, just like French companies are already working with Indian counterparts on TVC for Kaveri engine. We will see it in future, but at the moment I would prefer if MoD funds HMS, Helina and Sudarshan integration into Rafale. If Kaveri - Snecma engine could be integrated into Rafale, I would defenitely hope that we would integrate it at least in our versions and would add CFTs too (higher thrust, less drag, more free weapon stations and a lower RCS).

Btw:

UPDATE 4-French Rafale favoured for multi-billion dollar India jet deal

..."The Rafale gives a huge combat edge to our air force given the situation in our region," said former Indian air force chief Fali Homi Major.

"We cannot say what kind of conflict situation there would be in the region 20 years hence." ...

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/4-french-rafale-favoured-multi-162541097.html

 

[Hello_10]

Agree with you. But there are many misconception about Rafale and many underrate it just coz of few reason. Its perfect for india as we already have infrastructure for Mirage-2000 , its A2G capability is advanced (importance of which we felt in kargil), its AESA radar is almost ready. There is also talk of new feature to reduce radar crossection. Rafale is also closer to 5th gen. fighter.

I don’t talk much about avionics/ design etcs as we are not in this profession but a logical argument says, if IAF is happy with paying $3.9bn to upgrade their 51 Mirage2000 to 2000-5mk2 standard, and its manufacturers now closed its production lines when they started producing Rafale with a claim that Rafale is more capable for a2b operations with a very capable a2a role also than mirage2000-5 mk2, then obviously Rafale is worth paying $100 each + establishing infrastructure cost also

I have read on few places that even if F35 is a complete 5th gen stealth aircraft, Rafale will be able to dodge its all the missiles but if Rafale will have got F35 on its target, F35/ JSF is not capable enough to dodge any missile of Rafale (or of SU35/ SU30MKI also). IAF is not only negotiating for stealth features with Rafale, similar to SU35BM, but also Rafale is already capable enough to deal with of any 5th gen aircrafts even in a2a combat while Rafale is said to be the best Multi Role Aircraft, primarily for a2g operations

see the condition of the US's best JSF, the 5th gen aircraft, and Australian scientists finally selected Rafale with JSF/F35 over rest of the aircrafts. Rafale is already put in the category of US's latest and best 5th gen aircraft F35/ JSF

Scientists warned defence department against Joint Strike Fighter

AN internal Defence study warned that the new Joint Strike Fighter would be a high-risk venture for Australia, admitting that the plane had weaknesses, including poor engine thrust that made it difficult to dodge missiles.

Despite these criticisms, the study recommended narrowing Australia's choice of a new fighter jet to only three: the JSF, the American F-15E and the French Rafale.
Cookies must be enabled | The Australian

 

[Yeti]

I don’t talk much about avionics/ design etcs as we are not in this profession but a logical argument says, if IAF is happy with paying $3.9bn to upgrade their 51 Mirage2000 to 2000-5mk2 standard, and its manufacturers now closed its production lines when they started producing Rafale with a claim that Rafale is more capable for a2b operations with a very capable a2a role also than mirage2000-5 mk2, then obviously Rafale is worth paying $100 each + establishing infrastructure cost also

I have read on few places that even if F35 is a complete 5th gen stealth aircraft, Rafale will be able to dodge its all the missiles but if Rafale will have got F35 on its target, F35/ JSF is not capable enough to dodge any missile of Rafale (or of SU35/ SU30MKI also). IAF is not only negotiating for stealth features with Rafale, similar to SU35BM, but also Rafale is already capable enough to deal with of any 5th gen aircrafts even in a2a combat while Rafale is said to be the best Multi Role Aircraft, primarily for a2g operations

see the condition of the US's best JSF, the 5th gen aircraft, and Australian scientists finally selected Rafale with JSF/F35 over rest of the aircrafts. Rafale is already put in the category of US's latest and best F35/ JSF

Where you get the sum of $3.9bn for the Mirage upgrade?

---------- Post added at 06:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 PM ----------

You know missiles and other goodies is always additional costs

 

[prabhakar]

 

[Yeti]

The upgrades on the Mirage combat jets include a night vision goggle-compatible glass cockpit, advanced navigational systems, advanced Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system, advanced multi-mode multi-layered radar, fully integrated electronic warfare suite and advanced beyond visual range (BVR) capability. The weapon integration includes 450 MICA interception and aerial combat missiles. Thales and another French firm, MBDA, will be the weapons systems integrator and missiles supplier respectively.




In India, there has been a divided opinion between the Defence Ministry and IAF regarding the Mirage-2000 upgrade since the deal is high-priced. Apparently, with the inclusion of the new weapons costing over $ 700 million (MBDA-made Mica air-to-air missiles) that will re-arm the aircraft and another $ 500 million for new facilities at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will make it the costliest fighter upgrade by India.



US$2.4 billion Indian Mirage 2000 upgrade deal will have to plough back 30% of the contract value as offsets into Indian companies. India’s Tata industrial group will be the main beneficiary of this offsets program.

 

[anathema]

Think about the claims about HAL building a new facility just to upgrade Mirage 2000s, which didn't make sense at all unless,...

...these would be used for the licence production of Rafale too! It eases HALs logistics, several principles of the production should be similar anyway, since Rafale was based on the Mirage 2000 development and experience. Samtel will benefit a lot from both as well, since they should get the biggest offset parts next to HAL.

.

Sancho - Amen to that !!

I just hope that we get lots of benefit from France for our own LCA. We will be needing every ounce of it. Also hope that Kaveri fructifies !!

It will be interesting to see if there is any MKI'zation of Rafale. Especially in terms of integrating our own homegrown missiles OR Python likewise. Also i hope MoD can arm twist France into incorporating a HMS for Rafale - that i believe is a Rafale disadvantage.

 

[Screambowl]

It is reported that TVC could be a future upgrade for the M88 engines, just like French companies are already working with Indian counterparts on TVC for Kaveri engine. We will see it in future, but at the moment I would prefer if MoD funds HMS, Helina and Sudarshan integration into Rafale. If Kaveri - Snecma engine could be integrated into Rafale, I would defenitely hope that we would integrate it at least in our versions and would add CFTs too (higher thrust, less drag, more free weapon stations and a lower RCS).

Btw:



UPDATE 4-French Rafale favoured for multi-billion dollar India jet deal - Yahoo! Finance UK

I don't think Cost Factor as being the major fact of selection comes into play. It is indeed a political decision. I hope for a better future of Rafale in IAF with the best upgrades available.

India need to buy some U-boot now.

 

[Yeti]

This deal will also help our private defence firms in expanding and boosting our domestic industry

 

[Hello_10]

this is our choice

That’s how its share jumped today. No one can stop Rafale now, either with their deal with Brazil, UAE or many other customers who were just waiting for MMRCA result

 

[jha]

Brits have become restless...

 

[Yeti]

The Thales-samtel joint venture :



Samtel poised to take off with air force fighter fleet

 

[rockstarIN]

well, the wait ends here for the winner. Now waiting to fore LCA LSP-7 to take off.

 

[laltaputu]

15 Factors for the Dassault Rafale wins MMRCA

1.IAF's love for Mirrage 2000 which is a very potent platform.

2.Infrastructure created for over 100 mirages in the 80's can be used now.

3.Upgrade of Mirrage 2000 to Mirrage 2000-5 MK2 standard which will be a similarity with Rafale

4. The 1 billion dollar invested in MICA missile.

5.Dassault Rafale was build from ground up tp be a omirole or multirole platform which the IAF wants

6.SPECTRA + AESA in 2012 (Typhoons AESA 2015) + AASM (proved in Libya)

7.Dual sit version useful for training and more useful for ground attack(twin seater of typhoon is only a trainer without any advantage)

8.Dassault Rafale is cheaper than typhoon.

9.French a reliable supplier not sanctioning india after 1998.

10.All components from one country no dealing with 4 countries.

11.Dassault Rafale has almost all french components while Typhoon has some american components susceptible to sanctions.

12.Full transfer of technology including source code.

13.Today in European crisis France can give us more political leverage than UK+Germany,italy and spain are in deep crisis.

14.Marine version present which makes it attractive for Indian Navy.

15.Hidden deals in STRATEGIC , ECONOMICAL and IINDIGENOUS DEVELOPMENT(KAVERI,MCA,SSN,SSBN etc) arena.