Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[angeldemon_007]

Defence ministry panel to consider combat jet deal next month News

 

[sancho]

'As we move forward, I think we'll see more cooperation'

A 'strategic partner', France is now pitching for even more robust military ties with India. Big numbers are involved. After the Rs 23,562-crore Scorpene submarine construction programme and aRs 10,947-crore upgrade of 51 Mirage-2000 fighters in the Indian Air Force, France is now eyeing India's Rs 42,000-crore medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) project to acquire top-notch fighters - American, Russian and Swedish jets have been ejected from this race. French Air Force chief General Jean-Paul Palomeros spoke with Rajat Pandit on expanding ties:

How would you describe current bilateral defence ties?

India and France have a very good strategic relationship. In the military arena, it ranges from joint R&D to operational interoperability. The two armed forces share professional, fruitful and enduring ties, with wide-ranging cooperation in operational concepts and equipment. We shared our experi-ences in out-of-area operations in Africa, Afghanistan and recently, Libya, which were very interesting for IAF.

What's on the anvil for the future?

The two armed forces will continue to work together, with regular joint exercises, delegation-level exchanges and sharing of experiences. Planning for the next 'Garuda' joint air combat exercise, for instance, has already begun, to be held in 2013 or 2014. We want it to touch a new high.

As we move forward, i think we will see more cooperation in areas like unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), new-generation fighters, mid-air tankers, flight safety, training and tactical ballistic missile defence. All fields are open.

We must work together on futuristic technologies - which is what strategic partnership is all about. France, for instance, has the Neuron UCAV (combat UAVs) programme with six European countries...UCAVs can be part of our strategic partnership.

Some are critical about the exorbitant price of the Mirage-2000 upgrade project?

Mirages are very robust and capable platforms. IAF chief Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne in fact told me he is very happy with his Mirage fleet. The upgrade will give new life and capabilities to the fighters. The deal was fair and finalised after thorough Indian assessment. It's a win-win situation for both.

Even the future plans of the French Air Force revolve around two fighters, new-generation Rafales and upgraded Mirages. We used both in Libya. The aim is to modernise with induction of new-generation fighters as well as upgrading the best among the existing fleet. IAF is also looking to modernise in a similar way.

How does the Rafale match up with the Eurofighter Typhoon, the two finalists of the Indian MMRCA race?

Rafale demonstrated its full capability during the Libya operations. We had 90 to 95% serviceability as well as reduced maintenance costs of both Rafales and Mirages. During the first three days, French air force was the only air force flying over Libya. We were able to enforce the no-fly zone as well as strike Gaddafi's forces with precision and minimum collateral damage. Rafale's digital reconnaissance pods provided a lot of intelligence in real-time for the strikes.

I do not want to compare fighters but Rafale was designed as a multi-role platform from the very beginning. It has been a real success, as shown in Afghanistan, Libya and elsewhere. I must also stress Rafale is nuclear-capable. It has real growth potential. France will be more than happy to develop it with India. It is, of course, up to India to now select the best platform it needs.

'As we move forward, I think we'll see more cooperation' - The Times of India

 

[AkhandIndia]

If the Indian M-MRCA fighter competition wasn't quite surreal enough, in comes an Indian politician-economist, notably re-energized by his current association with India's "anti-corruption" movement and India's monumental telecom scam investigation, to stir the pot some more. A known fire-bomber with an unabashed antipathy to India's ruling Congress party, Subramanian Swamy has now apparently trained his ire at the IAF's $12-billion M-MRCA fighter deal.

Swamy, officially leader of the Janata Party, but best known for years as a voluble and dogged government baiter on all matters graft, says he has written to Indian Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh making some very dramatic allegations. The letter (full text in image above) was written on April 29, two days after the dramatic M-MRCA elimination. Like all his letters, this one says that it draws on "inside information" from within the government. Let's get to the contents:

Swamy writes: "My sources indicate that the pre-determined decision to favour the French aircraft [Dassault's Rafale] was the outcome of several conversations between the wife of French President Ms. Carla Bruni and the Chairperson of the National Advisory Council Ms. Sonia Gandhi, and surprisingly also with two foreign nationals who are the sisters of Ms. Sonia Gandhi."

It is not clear what information Swamy has based his allegations on.

At the very least, it should be said that Subramanian Swamy was once quite aptly described by a leading news weekly as "the Professor Moriarty to Sonia's Sherlock Holmes", so there shouldn't be any real surprise that the target of his letter is specifically the Congress Party president. That said, the allegations he makes are indubitably explosive. Swamy's letter refers to "credible information" in his possession, but says nothing about what this credible information is. It is not clear if he has shared any further information with the Prime Minister apart from this letter.

The operative part of his letter goes: "Based on some credible information given to me on the conversation between Ms. Carla Bruni and Ms Sonia Gandhi’s sisters, there has been an agreement of the French to pay a hefty bribe for favouring the purchase of French aircrafts."

Interestingly, a popular Indian military commentator has made a slightly backhanded allusion to pretty much the same thing today. In this column published in today's Pioneer, Maj Gen (Retd) Ashok Mehta writes, "The IAF favours the Rafale not the least because the French are promising the moon. There is also a high level back channel Italian connection, they say." So either the columnist has read Subramanian Swamy's letter, or has his own "insiders", in which case, as you've no doubt guessed, we have two prominent Indian figures saying that the Rafale has already been chosen to win the M-MRCA competition, and that it took a high-level government connection -- Swamy names Sonia Gandhi, the Maj Gen her nationality -- to work it through.

It should be reiterated that neither of these controversial assertions has been backed in substance -- at least as far as I know -- in either the letter or the column. We'll have to see where this goes.

i thought sonia will support EFT due to italy connection

 

[Abingdonboy]

If the Indian M-MRCA fighter competition wasn't quite surreal enough, in comes an Indian politician-economist, notably re-energized by his current association with India's "anti-corruption" movement and India's monumental telecom scam investigation, to stir the pot some more. A known fire-bomber with an unabashed antipathy to India's ruling Congress party, Subramanian Swamy has now apparently trained his ire at the IAF's $12-billion M-MRCA fighter deal.

Swamy, officially leader of the Janata Party, but best known for years as a voluble and dogged government baiter on all matters graft, says he has written to Indian Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh making some very dramatic allegations. The letter (full text in image above) was written on April 29, two days after the dramatic M-MRCA elimination. Like all his letters, this one says that it draws on "inside information" from within the government. Let's get to the contents:

SwQamy writes: "My sources indicate that the pre-determined decision to favour the French aircraft [Dassault's Rafale] was the outcome of several conversations between the wife of French President Ms. Carla Bruni and the Chairperson of the National Advisory Council Ms. Sonia Gandhi, and surprisingly also with two foreign nationals who are the sisters of Ms. Sonia Gandhi."

It is not clear what information Swamy has based his allegations on.

At the very least, it should be said that Subramanian Swamy was once quite aptly described by a leading news weekly as "the Professor Moriarty to Sonia's Sherlock Holmes", so there shouldn't be any real surprise that the target of his letter is specifically the Congress Party president. That said, the allegations he makes are indubitably explosive. Swamy's letter refers to "credible information" in his possession, but says nothing about what this credible information is. It is not clear if he has shared any further information with the Prime Minister apart from this letter.

The operative part of his letter goes: "Based on some credible information given to me on the conversation between Ms. Carla Bruni and Ms Sonia Gandhi’s sisters, there has been an agreement of the French to pay a hefty bribe for favouring the purchase of French aircrafts."

Interestingly, a popular Indian military commentator has made a slightly backhanded allusion to pretty much the same thing today. In this column published in today's Pioneer, Maj Gen (Retd) Ashok Mehta writes, "The IAF favours the Rafale not the least because the French are promising the moon. There is also a high level back channel Italian connection, they say." So either the columnist has read Subramanian Swamy's letter, or has his own "insiders", in which case, as you've no doubt guessed, we have two prominent Indian figures saying that the Rafale has already been chosen to win the M-MRCA competition, and that it took a high-level government connection -- Swamy names Sonia Gandhi, the Maj Gen her nationality -- to work it through.

It should be reiterated that neither of these controversial assertions has been backed in substance -- at least as far as I know -- in either the letter or the column. We'll have to see where this goes.

I don't feel there is very much credibility in these allegations as it was the IAF that conducted trails and made their recommendations where the MoD followed. In such a high profile program I don't think anyone would risk incriminating themselves as the consequences would be HUGE and would most likely incur serious prison time. If the F-16IN and Gripen had been the two favoured THEN we could smell somthing fishy but it is no coincidence the two strutted candidates got through to the final 2.

 

[air marshal]

IAF works to seal 126 fighter jet deal

The commercial bids for a $ 10-billion contract to buy 126 multi-role combat jets will be opened after the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) clears pending issues in October, Indian Air Force (IAF) chief NAK Browne said on Thursday.

The contest has narrowed down to two European contenders - Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon. The opening of the commercial bids has been delayed, causing anxiety among the contestants.

The air chief has now clarified that the DAC, chaired by defence minister A. K. Antony, will meet on October 7 to sort out pending issues.

The ministry hopes to seal the deal at the earliest - by the year end - as it wants the new aircraft to refurbish its dwindling fleet. The combat jet squadron strength has touched a critical low. The IAF hopes to turn even by 2016 when the new aircraft is expected to start arriving.

Browne supports a wider role for private industry in military aviation. Speaking at a seminar on aerospace industry, he talked about the need to check overdependence on foreign buyers. At the moment, the private Indian participation in India's military aviation is nil.

The IAF has a Rs. 97,000-crore acquisition plan for maintaining the momentum of modernisation. It hopes that by 2014-15, it will be able to turn the corner. Under the modernisation drive, several new platforms are being added.

The IAF has received C-130 Hercules, a new transport aircraft; C-17 Globemasters have also been ordered.

IAF works to seal 126 fighter jet deal : North: News India Today

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Photos: Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
Shahid Kapoor in the UAEAF Block-60 Falcon.

 

[Yeti]

Rafael has confirmed that it is in the advanced stages of developing a fifth-generation version of its Litening targeting pod.

The new version is being developed with features that will facilitate its installation on large unmanned air systems, such as the Israel Aerospace Industries Heron TP.

Israel-based Rafael has so far sold well over 1,000 Litening pods to 27 customers around the world. According to its updated forecast, demand for the system will amount to at least 500 more over the next five to seven years.

The design is currently being evaluated by operators of the Eurofighter Typhoon and Saab Gripen, and as part of the Indian air force's medium multi-role combat aircraft contest - which pits the Typhoon against the Dassault Rafale. It also could be integrated with the Brazilian air force's Embraer/Alenia AMX strike aircraft.

Rafael teamed up with Northrop Grumman to market the Litening pod in the USA market and in some other markets.

The company's current Litening G4 product uses a digital 1,024x1,024 pixel forward-looking infrared sensor and an improved TV sensor for daytime imaging. A data link system also enables it to receive data inputs from multiple sources, without requiring further modifications to the pod or host aircraft.

According to Rafael sources, the new version will have better range and resolution characteristics, and "be capable of producing more useful data from each image".

Rafael confirms work on fifth-generation Litening pod

 

[Abingdonboy]

^^^ so as it is part of MMRCA it is likely to become the standard targeting pod amongst IAF replacing existing Litening of the current IAF fleet. Good to know IAF is ahead of the curve.

 

[sancho]

^^^ so as it is part of MMRCA it is likely to become the standard targeting pod amongst IAF replacing existing Litening of the current IAF fleet. Good to know IAF is ahead of the curve.

I think the article means that EF is offered with the Litening pod, just like the Gripen was, while the Rafale will be with Damocles, possibly the new XF version and not that it is part of the MMRCA in general.

 

[Dash]

I think the article means that EF is offered with the Litening pod, just like the Gripen was, while the Rafale will be with Damocles, possibly the new XF version and not that it is part of the MMRCA in general.

I was wondering the same thing, will teh new Ddemocles be in MRCA? I dont think so...

 

[sancho]

I was wondering the same thing, will teh new Ddemocles be in MRCA? I dont think so...

Depends when it will be available, but it was offered in the Swiss competition as well, that's why I think it was in MMRCA as well. However, I wouldn't rule out the option of integrating Litening into Rafale incase we choose it, we might have to pay for the integration, but the commonality to the rest of the IAF fleet would be worth it. The Mirage 2000 upgrade might get a hint on that as well, I think IAF will integrate Litening pod (if it isn't already) instead of Damocles.

 

[Dash]

Depends when it will be available, but it was offered in the Swiss competition as well, that's why I think it was in MMRCA as well. However, I wouldn't rule out the option of integrating Litening into Rafale incase we choose it, we might have to pay for the integration, but the commonality to the rest of the IAF fleet would be worth it. The Mirage 2000 upgrade might get a hint on that as well, I think IAF will integrate Litening pod (if it isn't already) instead of Damocles.

Till date we havent seen any French aircraft using other PODs apart from French ones. Though Its a very good system yet French wont allow it. There were speculations of Mirage getting litening pod but nothing happened on that line and you know that.

and I am also pretty unsure its compatibility with French Bombs and even if we try to integrate it then it might escalate the cost. However if 126 fighter comes from France then Democles will be the better choice IMO.

The interesting point is EF uses litening Pod and this could be an advantage on EF side to tally the balance sheet but again Rafale will balance out in commonality with Mirage and may be the Mirage will have Democles eventually.

 

[sancho]

and I am also pretty unsure its compatibility with French Bombs and even if we try to integrate it then it might escalate the cost.

The only French bomb is the AASM and the laser guided version is still under development, so it not necessarily needs an LDP. The French forces used it with the GPS version, to get additional GPS data for more precise strikes. I wouldn't expect any compability issues there and the integration of Litening wouldn't meant that IAF would need to buy new once, but that they can share the older once not only with Russian fighters, but with LCA and Rafale as well! You don't need an LDP for each fighter, often you use one fighter providing laser guidance for others as well and then it depends on what's more expensive? Integrating Litening on Rafale, or buying completely new Damocles pods.
For EF litening pod and Paveway kits are the only commonality that they have to IAF fleet, so yes that a point for it, but that point is gone the minute we talk about operational advantages, because the lack of a dedicated LDP hardpoint is a major operational disadvantage.

 

[SpArK]

BAE Systems: Workers take hit as defence firm kills off home of the Hawk | This is Hull and East Riding

 

[Abingdonboy]

BAE Systems: Workers take hit as defence firm kills off home of the Hawk | This is Hull and East Riding

Interesting, these developments are very much India-centric- BAE HAWK now made in India, job cuts to reduce price of EFT to make it more competitive with Rafele for MMRCA.