Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[nitesh]

malay sir

I want to add one more point that rafale has not won any major order till date and winning this order will open a lot of opportunities for them.

 

[Contrarian]

The Flanker series of aircraft are considerably larger and heavier than the F/A-18 E/F. Even the Super hornet's larger predecessor, the F-14 Tomcat, a behemoth in its own right along with the USAF's F-15s fall shy of the weight and size comparison against the Flankers.
Undoubtedly the Super hornet is largest of the aircrafts being fielded in this MRCA competition; but I'm not really sure it can be categorized alongside the Su-30MKI.
I completely agree with you on the fuel consumption, operational costs and general serviceability being the most critical deciding factors. If in this regards, the Rafale is superior, then it will certainly stand a better chance.

That is the basis of my assumption. However, the F/A-18E/F still classifies as a heavy fighter and with it, all the operational hassles, that are not really required when we already have a bloody long range fighter which can pull an equal amount of ordnance if required.

Although the IAF has always held the Mirage2000 in high regards when it comes to these factors, I just hope they don't automatically assume that the same will be true for the Rafale. The latter is in a completely different category and should be considered a brand new and radically different platform that requires an evaluation from the ground up.

Well, the French did say that the Mirage 2000 production line can be modified to produce Rafale, and as IAF has a good experience in operating Mirage 2000's, and considering that the production has to take place here, IAF might think it the best option. Remember that IAF already wanted the Mirage 2000 as its original MRCA, they wanted it to be manufactured here, the govt didnt go through with it.

I believe Boeing has conducted simulations to determine that the super hornet can in fact be operated from a Ski Deck. That being said, I still don't think the IN can possibly field this aircraft because I'm assuming that the simulation was based on a highly stripped down version of the Super hornet which would impede its operational capacity akin to what has happened with the Su-33.

You hit the nail on the head. It will be a F/A-18E/F with a token ordinance. It is pointless.

As a side note, I think it is really important that the IN start looking into acquiring the catapult system for its two new planned carriers, not only to enable the possible launch of fully loaded Rafales or Super hornets, but more importantly for AEWs.

The design for the second indegenous Carrier is already fixed as per what i read in some reports. Fixing the Cats in the third Carrier however maybe a feasible option. But for that the tonnage of the Carrier has to increase as well.

 

[Contrarian]

The F-18 E/F super hornet is still close and may just end up taking this away given the aircrafts technical proficiency and most of all the political and economic benefits associated with this purchase. The only impediment of course is the US Congress' EUA clause; but I have a feeling they'll be willing to be highly ameliorative with this when engaging in a strictly bilateral agreement with India without third party involvement.

I think that has already been worked out. India instead of allowing on-site inspections and checks, which is the norm for the US, was willing to give access to records on equipment use along with guarentees. The US agreed i think. The EUA was not signed on account of the Left parties, but the technicalities have been worked out.

 

[nitesh]

One more point here only US operates steam catapults and moving towards electromagnetic ones. Correct me if I am wrong but US has not transferred this tech to any one.

 

[Energon]

One more point here only US operates steam catapults and moving towards electromagnetic ones. Correct me if I am wrong but US has not transferred this tech to any one.

EM catapults no. I don't think they're fully operational yet. The steam catapults yes. The French Navy has bought this tech from the US to enable Rafale launches from the Charles de Gaulle

 

[nitesh]

EM catapults no. I don't think they're fully operational yet. The steam catapults yes. The French Navy has bought this tech from the US to enable Rafale launches from the Charles de Gaulle

Thanks energon, but suppose India chooses F18/F16 as the MRCA winner what will be the cost of providing the infrastructure for them. I mean India operates lot of Russian, French, Israel weapons like R77/73 Matra, Python etc. etc. Will US allow them to be integrated with her planes? If not then the total infrastructure need to be created for new planes. This can also play a major role in the decision making.

 

[blain2]

Thanks energon, but suppose India chooses F18/F16 as the MRCA winner what will be the cost of providing the infrastructure for them. I mean India operates lot of Russian, French, Israel weapons like R77/73 Matra, Python etc. etc. Will US allow them to be integrated with her planes? If not then the total infrastructure need to be created for new planes. This can also play a major role in the decision making.

Israeli and French weapons will not be an issue on F/A-18 and the Viper however Russians would be. I doubt that IAF would want to integrate Russian weapons on US aircraft. US or the Europeans have a solution available to match anything the Russians offer in terms of their weapons so I doubt that anyone would go for the headache to pay for integration and testing of Russian weapons on US aircraft.

 

[nitesh]

Israeli and French weapons will not be an issue on F/A-18 and the Viper however Russians would be. I doubt that IAF would want to integrate Russian weapons on US aircraft. US or the Europeans have a solution available to match anything the Russians offer in terms of their weapons so I doubt that anyone would go for the headache to pay for integration and testing of Russian weapons on US aircraft.

Yeah seems like a comic book story, a US plane firing russian missiles and vice versa

 

[Contrarian]

Israeli and French weapons will not be an issue on F/A-18 and the Viper however Russians would be. I doubt that IAF would want to integrate Russian weapons on US aircraft. US or the Europeans have a solution available to match anything the Russians offer in terms of their weapons so I doubt that anyone would go for the headache to pay for integration and testing of Russian weapons on US aircraft.

2 weapons- The R-77M and the Meteor.

 

[jaison]

i dont think the us,french,eads will allow foriegn missiles to equip their planes,if they do they will modify the software but the swedes have said that they will give us the source code so that we can change it to accomodate our weapons of choice.may be even russians may allow this on their planes,but i may be wrong

 

[nitesh]

i dont think the us,french,eads will allow foriegn missiles to equip their planes,if they do they will modify the software but the swedes have said that they will give us the source code so that we can change it to accomodate our weapons of choice.may be even russians may allow this on their planes,but i may be wrong

That's to generalized statement mate. What swedes can offer, do there plane runs on there engines/radar? It uses US techs in that don't US can put senctions from behind?

 

[jaison]

thats a sensible question but the swedes have assured us that supply of spares wont be interrupted.........

 

[jaison]

Gripen Ng and Tejas combo?


Author: idrw team | 25 July 2008 | Views: 524


BY : VINAY SHETTI FOR IDRW.ORG NEW SERVICE



Gripen Ng and Tejas flying together in a same mission over green fields of Punjab, or doing combat patrolling over the skies of capital city, might actually become a real time event in future, Gripen NG which is one of the front runners for supplying the 126 jets to Indian air force, it now seems to have impressed the Top guns in the Indian air force also, the new Gripen which the Saab Aerospace calls Gripen NG (Next Generation) which was recently rolled out on 23 April 2008 in the Saab Aerospace facility , it does not have an entirely new brand new look nor does it have any look of stealthy aircrafts like F-22 or F-35 but it does have some major improvements over its previous model (Gripen C/D) ,

New features which are the hard to ignore are the new massive General Electric F414G Engines which also powers the F/A-18E/F super hornets and which may also power India’s very own Tejas Block-2 fighter aircraft in future ,with 25% more thrust and new AESA radar, more weapons payload and more increase in range, aircraft had to go through very minimum change as the its landing gear had to be displaced from its undercarriage to its main wing pylons which freed up large space in the center fuselage section of the aircraft also provided room for extra fuel tanks ,Actually Gripen Ng as more unrefueled range then F-16 that’s 2,200 nautical miles ,use of Dual launch rails have also improved the aircraft's weapon carrying capacity from earlier 8 stations to 10 in the new current version .

Many Military Experts in India in past have dismissed Gripen as not the Strongest contender of the Indian Air forces M-MRCA programme which has been fought hard by American F-16 and F/A-18E/F along with Mig-35 from Russia and Euro fighter from Europe ,Experts have argued repeatedly that Countries own Tejas fighter aircraft will have similar capability when it joins Indian air force in 2011-12 time frame which is same exact time frame when jet selected from the M-MRCA programme are supposed to be delivered, but with the new Re-incarnation of the Gripen it might have a better chance of winning the M-MRCA requirements of the Indian air force.

Gripen Ng will not only bring array of new weapons and Avionics to Indian air force but will also be able to meet the Indian air force requirements ,it will also enable Hal to carry out its own future upgrades to the aircraft ,Saab which as promised to provide the Software code of the aircraft which will enable to integrate locally built Astra BVR AAM and other weapon systems ,if General Electric’s F414G Engines are selected for Tejas for the Block-2 version it will also enable Indian Air force maintain the commonality between the Two aircraft's engines
saab has made a competitive offer

 

[nitesh]

Is Gripen or Gripen NG is more capable then rafale/typhoon/MiG35 or F18 I am not considering the F 16 here. And what makes you think that others might not have offered the same thing?

 

[jaison]

no you misunderstood me i was just trying to say that the swedes are more flexible in terms of tech transfer and they have made a fine offer but then i am not mature enough to comment on wat suits the iaf best ,lets leave it to the higher officials of the iaf