Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Taygibay]

My brother kindly go through my previous post. You are far from reality. Calm down and come down to earth and spell the reality

Spell, LOL, delicious! But the rest is not as great.
PariK reports what he has access to and you oppose, fine!
With incessant calls for a logic that you yourself don't apply.
and that is the disturbing part.

36+18 is the deal we are signing. Don't know from where PARIKRAMA getting these source which even French ministry could deny. It's true India need more fighters like rafale for various reasons but how far we can spend is the real question. PARIKRAMA says we will buy atleast 200 rafale. But India already investing in 150+ FGFA, 150+ AMCA, 200+ Tejas MK2. I mean seriously we have sufficient funds? I doubt it. By far IN will go for another 40+ rafale for its INS Vishal which will enter service by 2030. That too if Americans have no problem with India not buying carrier jets from them as many inputs are made available from US carrier programs. If India gets new Vikrant 2 rafale should be modified for ski jump rather mig29 or mi35 cuts the cue. If IN buy super carrier proposed by Russians then don't make any mistakes it could be aimed with N FGFA and AMCA and Tejas MK2.

So these stupid so called source are really misleading and pathetic with these kind of claims. U dint even mentioned about another single engine fighter under make in India. At most IAF will operate around 36 (by2022) 18 more as follow on by 2025. By this time India will have very matured fleet of fifth generation FGFA, handsomely upgraded Super Su, AMCA with promising results.

I will also claim that this is what my so. Called source based news says. Because it's far far away from timeline and reality

I really wish we have 200 rafale along with 300 sukoi by 2030. If this happened them it's good. But it's not the plan in first place as claimed by many here. Wishing is one thing Saying it as source is another thing as it misleading

What would Le Drian deny or have to deny? Contrarily to other DMs,
he never says too much in the first place. And if you mean about an
MII line or even just a simple second order, the person who clearly
said it was coming is not our MinDef but Éric Trappier himself in his
Results 2015 conference Q&A.

The numbers bandied around vary in credibility but Dassault's CEO's
sense of humour is way finer than inventing orders so that we know
that a different deal is under negotiations.

Well, insulting twice removed people you never met is a low PK exercise.
You may only be attacking the constrained interpretation of their message.
Plus, the following comparison with FGFA concerns an undeveloped plane.
And maybe others don't mention the foreign single engine line because it is
not coming.

You alone are responsible for believing what you read on fora, my man!
Besides, PariK is not the worst offender in that domain.

Heed to your own advice from top and calm down.
I hope life provides a nice setting for you to do so, Tay.

P.S.
Random R, you again answered what you thought I said, mate!
No system for another plane whichever can be called SPECTRA.
Find out why and you'll get the meaning of my post you quoted.

And great day, Tay.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

So one thing that really fascinates me is the absence of any plans for the 5th generation plane for France. Now given M88 full potential in a dual configuration it can give an equal footing to the single engine F35 or the High mass J20 dual engine plane "Only taking about 5th generation engine specs nothing else"

That means if big modifications for RCS reduction and bays are integrated the Rafale can become a headache for any such fighter. Lets not forget this plane does stick with some of the points that goes into making a 5th Gen fighter "From Integration to data link/share"

In this case, we can mixed a potential "Super Rafale" and the AMCA project.

Same aerodynamic config than Rafale : Delta closed canard and semi ventral air intakes.
Cone nose and air intakes diamond shaped
2x10tons engine.
Internal bay for AtoA missile or a mix of few AtoA and AtoG weapons.
Front and side looking AESA antennae.
No vertical fin thanks to Dassault master class FBW know how.

....

That is something long back me and @Abingdonboy had discussed in this thread only some place. Its a logical choice but you need commercials to back such a deal and a good solid reasoning of why we should do this for India's LCA and AMCA projects.

That is where the deal size matters bcz only via that the commercial side can be defined and strategic intent of making India's MIC capable of building a higher quality jet with ease.

About corrosion : ALL Rafale, and not only the M variant, are protected in the same manner as the M variant. See quite all Charles de Gaulle carrier pics : you see Rafale parked outside, in the sealed air ambiance.

I am aware of that and the dark color in the Rafale M. The experience of IAF is much different as of today's fleet. The corrosion or weather effects have actually made them spend much more to repair, prep and actually at times ground and replace parts of the planes. By signing and agreeing for such a package they wish to get out of the burden and the cycle of planes being down for repairs.

One more thing, the sea air and salt corrosion is a bit different as compared to Indian weather cycles and seasonal changes based effects. The normal season and off seasonal stuff with climate and extreme vagaries of temperature, humid and particles will have a higher corrosive effect which i believe will impact the present Rafale M or Rafale coatings as of date. Of course field data and actual experience will be able to say it over time.

 

[halloweene]

Only now I have accepted that the Rafale is an excellent Pick for the IN, and with reports coming in that there might be a sister ship to Vikrant. A lame man's Q is that the Rafale will have no issue taking off a Ski Slop yes ?

+ im sure it might have been posted before, But where will be MII line for the Rafale be in india?? and last the list of equipment added to the IAF variant of the Rafale (F3I??) would include the HMDS (Topowl?) and pod (Litening G4?) ??

Dassault assured that Rafale is slope compliant, but with less weight of course. There will be a HMDS, presumably israelian (or it could be the "scorpion" of F-22 as thalès bought the company, no clue). About pod, i dont know my bets on litening, but it could also be new thalès one (talios)

 

[GuardianRED]

Dassault assured that Rafale is slope compliant, but with less weight of course. There will be a HMDS, presumably israelian (or it could be the "scorpion" of F-22 as thalès bought the company, no clue). About pod, i dont know my bets on litening, but it could also be new thalès one (talios)

The point is the commonality for all IAF aircrafts.. We have the Topsights for the Mig29s , Mirage2000 (Future Su30) and the Litening Pod is for most aircrafts that can carry one i.e Su30,Migs 29, Mirages, Jaguars, LCA.

 

[4GTejasBVR]

Spell, LOL, delicious! But the rest is not as great.
PariK reports what he has access to and you oppose, fine!
With incessant calls for a logic that you yourself don't apply.
and that is the disturbing part.



What would Le Drian deny or have to deny? Contrarily to other DMs,
he never says too much in the first place. And if you mean about an
MII line or even just a simple second order, the person who clearly
said it was coming is not our MinDef but Éric Trappier himself in his
Results 2015 conference Q&A.

The numbers bandied around vary in credibility but Dassault's CEO's
sense of humour is way finer than inventing orders so that we know
that a different deal is under negotiations.

Well, insulting twice removed people you never met is a low PK exercise.
You may only be attacking the constrained interpretation of their message.
Plus, the following comparison with FGFA concerns an undeveloped plane.
And maybe others don't mention the foreign single engine line because it is
not coming.

You alone are responsible for believing what you read on fora, my man!
Besides, PariK is not the worst offender in that domain.

Heed to your own advice from top and calm down.
I hope life provides a nice setting for you to do so, Tay.

P.S.
Random R, you again answered what you thought I said, mate!
No system for another plane whichever can be called SPECTRA.
Find out why and you'll get the meaning of my post you quoted.

And great day, Tay.

OK so 200 rafale and no commitment to amca and MK2. And FGFA is under developed and won't be able see the light . OK.

 

[Agent_47]

https://twitter.com/x/status/777503591720288257

 

[Armani]

https://twitter.com/x/status/777503591720288257

Adds credence to the previously mentioned deal-signing date of 23rd.

Here's hoping it all goes to plan.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

The weapon systems, part of the deal, will also include the new-age beyond visual range missile ‘Meteor’, and Israeli helmet-mounted display. (@Abingdonboy @GuardianRED )


http://www.financialexpress.com/eco...ister-to-arrive-on-sep-22/381235/?Socialmedia

 

[[Bregs]]

View attachment 335642


The weapon systems, part of the deal, will also include the new-age beyond visual range missile ‘Meteor’, and Israeli helmet-mounted display. (@Abingdonboy @GuardianRED )


http://www.financialexpress.com/eco...ister-to-arrive-on-sep-22/381235/?Socialmedia

At last the D day arrives for this much awaited defense deal of the century

 

[Abingdonboy]

View attachment 335642


The weapon systems, part of the deal, will also include the new-age beyond visual range missile ‘Meteor’, and Israeli helmet-mounted display. (@Abingdonboy @GuardianRED )


http://www.financialexpress.com/eco...ister-to-arrive-on-sep-22/381235/?Socialmedia

Weird, the TOPSIGHT-I Seems the more logical choice but there would be communality with the LCA (in the case of the DASH).

 

[GuardianRED]

Weird, the TOPSIGHT-I Seems the more logical choice but there would be communality with the LCA (in the case of the DASH).

Honestly, atleast there is a HMDs, , where the French Rafale hasn't intergraded one yet!

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Honestly, atleast there is a HMDs, , where the French Rafale hasn't intergraded one yet!

No we have integrated a lot, It's just that French air force doesn't want an HMDS untill the weight is below 1.3 kg with all feature like night vision etc... (it's for security at ejection see F-35 for example)

So one thing that really fascinates me is the absence of any plans for the 5th generation plane for France. Now given M88 full potential in a dual configuration it can give an equal footing to the single engine F35 or the High mass J20 dual engine plane "Only taking about 5th generation engine specs nothing else"

5th generation is a marketing approach from the US to disqualify competitor.
Stealth is not needed, what is needed is survivability, Stealth is only one of the means to get survivability.
In France we think that Rafale is more survivable than F-35. It use automated terrain following at very low height and high speed, EW system including active cancellation, great maneuverability for that.

 

[Ali Zadi]

5th generation is a marketing approach from the US to disqualify competitor.
Stealth is not needed, what is needed is survivability, Stealth is only one of the means to get survivability.
In France we think that Rafale is more survivable than F-35. It use automated terrain following at very low height and high speed, EW system including active cancellation, great maneuverability for that.

I was about to say the same that Stealth is survivability and as Rafale does not have internal bays automatically it can carry more weapons, I have heard of F35 having problems fitting larger weapons. What also is interesting is that like the F35, Rafale is also suppose to serve several branch's like the Navy & Air Force and that makes both platform expandable friendly. A one on one exercise would be one to see but as always Americans would just argue "But all we need are BVR missiles they are the main idea"

Speaking of the active cancellation I cant get any hands on the exact range of the system that it can cancel out there are people out there in the dark who say its pretty much on par with another thing the Americans have but I will talk about the EA-18G Growler instead which is like a loud speaker but Rafale has a much more interesting way to deal with this. More information for the same would be welcome.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

I was about to say the same that Stealth is survivability and as Rafale does not have internal bays automatically it can carry more weapons, I have heard of F35 having problems fitting larger weapons. What also is interesting is that like the F35, Rafale is also suppose to serve several branch's like the Navy & Air Force and that makes both platform expandable friendly. A one on one exercise would be one to see but as always Americans would just argue "But all we need are BVR missiles they are the main idea"

Speaking of the active cancellation I cant get any hands on the exact range of the system that it can cancel out there are people out there in the dark who say its pretty much on par with another thing the Americans have but I will talk about the EA-18G Growler instead which is like a loud speaker but Rafale has a much more interesting way to deal with this. More information for the same would be welcome.

https://defence.pk/threads/the-rafale-hidden-beauties-and-its-future.422896/page-5#post-8339176
http://aviationweek.com/StealthTech#slide-6-field_images-1351991

One enhancement to stealth is active cancelation (AC): onboard electronics detect a radar signal, locate the emitter and transmit a signal that exactly matches the echo received by the radar—but exactly half a wavelength out of phase, so that the radar sees nothing. AC has existed in theory for decades, and may have been considered for the B-2. In 1997, a French engineer said in an interview that the Rafale’s Spectra electronic warfare system (above) includes “stealth-jamming modes that make the aircraft invisible” and it was disclosed later that MBDA had tested an “active-stealth” system on a C-22 target UAV in 1999.

 

[GuardianRED]

No we have integrated a lot, It's just that French air force doesn't want an HMDS untill the weight is below 1.3 kg with all feature like night vision etc... (it's for security at ejection see F-35 for example)


5th generation is a marketing approach from the US to disqualify competitor.
Stealth is not needed, what is needed is survivability, Stealth is only one of the means to get survivability.
In France we think that Rafale is more survivable than F-35. It use automated terrain following at very low height and high speed, EW system including active cancellation, great maneuverability for that.

Did see an Old Documentary on F-35 vs the world , they showed simulators on how a 5th Gen aircraft is better than the current Nato and Russian Fed aircrafts.

Yes as u said it was like a marketing video and biased to the f-35. It showed at what distant or how close the enemy can come close to the F-35 before getting destroyed (Current weapons load and specs includes Jamming , ECCM ,defensive ad and countermeasure was taken into account)

Aircraft - includes the Su30MK series, Typhoon, Rafale etc (can't remember the rest). And the closest aircraft to get to the F-35!.(if i remember correctly ) is The Rafale!