Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Abingdonboy]

Well we can still mock and troll india and its procurement. The mother of all defense deals that came down to 36 aircraft from 126.

But since nobody is butthurt in Pakistan like bharatis we are not doing that.



Well let's see how long this "final stage" would go on.

And why should we protest when we have a billion plus buggers to do randi rona aka protest for just 8 F16s.

Only in your dreams has the the deal come down to 36. As we speak Dassualt is finalising the deal for 90 follow on units to be made in India and this is just the start. The total requirement for Rafales in India for the IAF and IN is 300+ units.

+ on what ground could Pakistan protest? India protested because those F-16s were being partly subsidised by the US taxpayer (yes yes CSF is not aid- sure thing) and were passed through the US congress and senate on the grounds of "fighting terrorism" (yeah right). Here India is paying 100% of the costs for its planes and not trying to dupe anyone of their intended role.


Apples and oranges, typical false equivalency.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

LSA because the IN wants it. The US can forget CISMOA and BECA.

CISMOA would have been mandatory if we would have gone for F 18

Now there is NO NEED for it because Rafale is done

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

The lift comes from delta wings. Canrads are for better maneuverability..

It's only true for long coupled canard, for close coupled canard you get a lift enhancement

A wind-tunnel study to find the lift and drag characteristics of a low-aspect-ratio wingbody configuration from an angle of attack (AOA) of -8 to 50 degrees was conducted. A further study to find the comparative lift enhancement using the same wingbody with a close-coupled canard for wingbody angles of attack of 10, 22, 34, 40, and 48 degrees and canard deflection angles from -25 to 25 degrees was carried out. It was found that a properly-located canard enhanced the lift at all tested angles of attack, compared to the baseline wingbody configuration results. The lift enhancement was maximized in the post-stall regimes, reaching values up to 34%. A small improvement in lift- to-drag ratio was noted at all tested angles above 10 degrees angle of attack.

http://calhoun.nps.edu/handle/10945/27612

 

[PARIKRAMA]

price break up approx

2 bases - Euro 1.1 Bn x 2 = 2.2 Bn
Flyaway + weapons - Euro 2.7 Bn
All support packages - Euro 2.1 Bn
Customization - Euro 0.8 Bn

The flyaway + weapons - Euro 75 Mn or USD 84.75 Mn - the same as MMRCA $85 Mn

Removing weapons cost of USD 10-15 mn implies flyaway at USD 70-75 mn range or Euro 62-66 Mn.

after removing the VAT and adding marginal corporate profit, DA has given a solid deal to India where its going to use VOLUMES as a key to make humongous profit over next 20 years of production till 2035 and almost 5-6 decades of presence in Indian defense arena

@Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @Vauban @Taygibay

 

[IndianSudhakar]

Actually should Thank Pakistan and china. Without your threats...India would have been pretty lethargic on Defence..

 

[Spectre]

Actually should Thank Pakistan and china. Without your threats...India would have been pretty lethargic on Defence..

Are you effing kidding me????? I would any day take zero Rafales for a peaceful and friendly neighbourhood.

The resources we spend on defence is out of necessity without the need they provide marginal utility.

 

[Alpha Fighter]

Actually the track record of MOTHER OF ALL DEAL is so good and promising that it force us to troll when ever we see that RAFALE Deal is final ...............

It was final that India will buy 126 Rafales, then something happened..............
It was final that India will buy 80 Rafales then something happened..................

This ''something'' force us to troll................. as we always wait for new episode of ''MOTHER OF ALL DEAL'' topi drama from India side...............

and every time new episode is more Pathetic than previous one

its not 126 or 80 its around 300 Lol

 

[Immortan.Joe]

price break up approx

2 bases - Euro 1.1 Bn x 2 = 2.2 Bn
Flyaway + weapons - Euro 2.7 Bn
All support packages - Euro 2.1 Bn
Customization - Euro 0.8 Bn

The flyaway + weapons - Euro 75 Mn or USD 84.75 Mn - the same as MMRCA $85 Mn

Removing weapons cost of USD 10-15 mn implies flyaway at USD 70-75 mn range or Euro 62-66 Mn.

after removing the VAT and adding marginal corporate profit, DA has given a solid deal to India where its going to use VOLUMES as a key to make humongous profit over next 20 years of production till 2035 and almost 5-6 decades of presence in Indian defense arena

@Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @Vauban @Taygibay

At € 0,8 billion or $ 0.9 billion; I do not see any major customization like increase in Engine power.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Follow the sticky thread of Rafale. You will know that if going west is the desire, then cheap is not an option.

If you want the best then you have to be prepared to pay for it- pay peanuts and get peanuts. But let's not forget that It's not just Western aircraft that are costly but high end Russian fighters too except they mask their high life cycle costs by offering relatively low upfront costs.

 

[mirage]

great news , i am new to this PDF family and every day checked the updates here . gr8 going modi government . everything is happening on fast pace and right direction now i guess .

 

[PARIKRAMA]

At € 0,8 billion or $ 0.9 billion; I do not see any major customization like increase in Engine power.

Engine work started last august so already 9 months gone so even if we get first rafales after 18 months it means 27-28 months from the project start and the project for new engine is suppose to be 24 months..

Its reasonable to assume we are going with the original 8.3-8.5T engine without major modification of air intake and 9tonne option.

moreover its a part finance not full as its a natural product evolution.. The new rafale with constant upgrades is slowly becoming heavy.. estimated 700 kgs are added and requirement of new engine is natural..

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Engine work started last august so already 9 months gone so even if we get first rafales after 18 months it means 27-28 months from the project start and the project for new engine is suppose to be 24 months..

Its reasonable to assume we are going with the original 8.3-8.5T engine without major modification of air intake and 9tonne option.

moreover its a part finance not full as its a natural product evolution.. The new rafale with constant upgrades is slowly becoming heavy.. estimated 700 kgs are added and requirement of new engine is natural..

And this modification (8.3 t) is paid by Qatar.

 

[sathya]

What weapons are getting along with rafale ?

As spectre pointed out, what compromises have we done ?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

And this modification (8.3 t) is paid by Qatar.

thats why i said part finance bcz surely other stake holders would be involved..

Good finally its done.. so pic sir, any chance you coming in as consultant in the Indian venture.. you can try surely.. a man of your caliber can change our Aerospace segment,,

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

price break up approx

2 bases - Euro 1.1 Bn x 2 = 2.2 Bn
Flyaway + weapons - Euro 2.7 Bn
All support packages - Euro 2.1 Bn
Customization - Euro 0.8 Bn

I would say All support packages - Euro 2.1 Bn is too high and Customization - Euro 0.8 Bn is too low.

One flying hour all inclusive for Rafale is 10000 $

So 1 year support is 250 hours so 2500000 $ for 10 years it's 25 millions and for 36 planes it's 0.9 Billions.

I think that it was one way to reduce the price to limit support to 10 years.

I think also that upgrading the bases will cost a little bit more.