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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

As defence minister hinted a possible Buying of another single engine figjter and mk in india i wud prefer f16 block 60 if us allows local manufacture.i think its more advanced than tht of griPen. As it can take on chinese fighters alone but i doubt about gripen.and that should b our last buy from foriegn manufactute.rest should be our mk2',amca and fgfa only.those f16 can support mki s against china.just my opinion
 
As defence minister hinted a possible Buying of another single engine figjter and mk in india i wud prefer f16 block 60 if us allows local manufacture.i think its more advanced than tht of griPen. As it can take on chinese fighters alone but i doubt about gripen.and that should b our last buy from foriegn manufactute.rest should be our mk2',amca and fgfa only.those f16 can support mki s against china.just my opinion

will it be free of strings?
pak already knows F16 inside out. they might even retire older crafts in some years.. why are we thinking to buy it now..
after getting Rafale, any other aircraft seems only to have less chance.
pushing tejas mk2 early is the way to go...

but damn.. no news news about mk2 .. other than the preparation of the blue prints for parts..

if we get AMRAAM or Meteor for tejas mk2, it should be fine..
 
Ministry of Defence
05-May, 2015 16:54 IST

Capability for Domestic Production of Rafale Aircrafts

An advance aircraft such as Rafale can be produced in India after Transfer of Technology (ToT) by the Original Aircraft Manufacturer. As per the India-France Joint Statement issued by the two countries during the Prime Minister’s visit to France, Government of India conveyed to the Government of France that in view of the critical operational necessity for Multirole Combat Aircraft for Indian Air Force (IAF), Government of India would like to acquire 36 Rafale jets in fly-away condition as quickly as possible. The two leaders agreed to conclude an Inter-Governmental Agreement for supply of the aircraft on terms that would be better than conveyed by Dassault Aviation as part of a separate process underway, the delivery would be in time-frame that would be compatible with the operational requirement of IAF; and that the aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by IAF, and with a longer maintenance responsibility by France.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri Manohar Parrikar in a written reply to Shri Ravi Prakash Verma in Rajya Sabha today.

DM/HH/RAJ  
(Release ID :121204)

Last Updated: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - 23:49
Rafale delivery in accordance with IAF's operational needs: Govt | Zee News


New Delhi: The delivery of 36 Rafale fighter jets from France would be in a time frame compatible with the operational requirement of the IAF, the Rajya Sabha was told on Tuesday.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar also said the 36 aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by the IAF, and with with a longer maintenance responsibility by France.

In a written reply, Parrikar said India would like to acquire the jets in "fly away" condition as quickly as possible.

He was referring to an agreement signed between India and France during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Paris.

He also said an inter-governmental agreement has been signed with the Russian Federation for design, development, production of a Prospective Multi Role Fighter Aircraft.

India has in recent years launched a vast defence modernisation programme worth some USD 100 billion, partly to keep up with rival neighbours Pakistan and China.

PTI
 
Rafale Deal: India, France Set Up Teams to Work Out Details
All India | Press Trust of India | Updated: May 06, 2015 14:55 IST

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Prime Minister Narendra Modi had last month announced India's intention to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from France under a government to government deal during his trip to the country.

As a follow-up on the subject, Mr Drian and Mr Parrikar met in Delhi to decide on the way forward.

"The two Defence Ministers discussed modalities in order to reach an early conclusion of an Inter-Governmental agreement on the subject. The two sides decided to set up teams to work out the details in a time bound manner," a short statement by the Defence Ministry said.

French defence major Dassault Aviation, manufacturer of Rafale, is likely to enter into a joint venture with state-run HAL or any private player to set up a base in Delhi for augmenting its existing production line in Merignac in France, defence sources had said.

The deal is estimated to be over 6 billion dollars and will have about 30-50 per cent offset.

Rafale Deal: India, France Set Up Teams to Work Out Details

France, India pledge swift conclusion to fighter jet deal
AFP – 34 minutes ago


France's defence minister and his Indian counterpart pledged Wednesday to quickly wrap up negotiations over the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets, agreeing to set up teams to nail down the deal.

The meeting between Jean-Yves Le Drian and Manohar Parrikar came some four weeks after the announcement of an outline purchase agreement which fell a long way short of previous proposals for India to buy 126 of the jets made by French firm Dassault.

"The two defence ministers discussed modalities in order to reach an early conclusion of an Inter-Governmental Agreement on the subject," according to a joint statement issued after the talks in New Delhi.

"The two sides decided to set up teams to work out the details in a time-bound manner."

During a visit to France last month, India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced that New Delhi had ordered 36 of the "ready to fly" planes.

The deal -- estimated to be worth five billion euros ($5.5 billion) -- followed tortuous years-long negotiations on buying the jets.

Talks began in 2012 about the possible purchase of 126 of the planes as part of a $12-billion deal. But they became bogged down over cost and New Delhi's insistence that 108 of the planes be manufactured in India.

After news of the deal for 36 planes was announced, Parrikar played down expectations of a larger deal.

India has in recent years launched a vast defence modernisation programme worth some $100 billion, partly to keep up with rival neighbours Pakistan and China.

But contracts for new military hardware have been bogged down in India's bureaucracy, while some were mired in corruption scandals under the previous Congress-led government.

France, India pledge swift conclusion to fighter jet deal - Yahoo Finance UK
 
Ministry of Defence
06-May, 2015 13:20 IST
Meeting Between Defence Ministers of India and France

Joint Statement issued during Prime Minister’s visit to France, inter-alia, included acquisition of 36 Rafale jets in fly away condition, through an Inter-Governmental Agreement. To follow-up on the subject, Mr. LE Drian, the Defence Minister of France and Mr. Manohar Parrikar, the Defence Minister of India met today at New Delhi to decide on the way forward in this regard. The two Defence Ministers discussed modalities in order to reach an early conclusion of an Inter-Governmental Agreement on the subject. The two sides decided to set up teams to work out the details in a time bound manner.

NAo/RAJ
(Release ID :121228)
 
1.Light fighter- f16, tejas mk2, mirage 2000
2.Medium fighter- rafale, typhoon, f-35, mig29,
3.Heavy fighter- su 30, fgfa, f15 eagle, amca

4. Naval fighter- tejas mk2, rafale, f35, mig29, f18 and amca for 6 carrier battle group

My dream fleet..damn..if it happens..no country can counter iaf.and navy..chinese will say gud bye dragon....
 
1.Light fighter- f16, tejas mk2, mirage 2000
2.Medium fighter- rafale, typhoon, f-35, mig29,
3.Heavy fighter- su 30, fgfa, f15 eagle, amca

4. Naval fighter- tejas mk2, rafale, f35, mig29, f18 and amca for 6 carrier battle group

My dream fleet..damn..if it happens..no country can counter iaf.and navy..chinese will say gud bye dragon....
Kid like you never get mature
F16, f18, f15 eagle, euro fighter, f35 in iaf, my goodness. Please dont fart in forums.

You forgot to add space shuttles.
 
France offers India fly-away Rafales at same rate as to own air force | Zee News
Last Updated: Friday, May 8, 2015 - 00:30



New Delhi: France is offering India 36 Rafale fighter jets in fly-away condition at the same price which it pays to French defence major Dassault Aviation to equip its own air force, defence sources said.


They added that this means that the cost per aircraft will be much lower than the price that was being worked out under the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender, which also involved transfer of technology.

"The price of the aircraft for India will be the same as the price at which it is sold to the French air force. This was the case during the deal for Mirage fighters too," sources said.

They added that the final pricing will depend on the specific requirements that India seeks from France and how the negotiation goes forward.

The said offer is in keeping with the joint statement issued during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's recent visit to France where he announced the intention to buy 36 Rafales off the shelf.

"The two leaders (Modi, French President) agreed to conclude an inter-governmental agreement for supply of the aircraft on terms that would be better than what is conveyed by Dassault Aviation as part of a separate process underway," the statement had said.

The "separate process" was the MMRCA tender which had been stuck for years over pricing and other issues.

French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian had met with his counterpart Manohar Parrikar here yesterday following which the two sides decided to form special teams that will work in a time-bound manner to conclude negotiations.

Defence sources said the teams will work out the finer details of the deal, including the pricing.

They also questioned the possibility whether the deal may have an offset clause, saying it would be difficult if the pricing for Indian aircraft remains the same as that for the French air force.

As per industry experts, the price of a Rafale to French air force works out to anywhere between USD 200-220 million.

"If we take the lowest value of USD 200 million, it will work out to around Rs 1,240 crore per aircraft. Even if we increase it to Rs 1,300 crore, it would be a better price than earlier," sources said.

The price per aircraft not only includes its own cost but also that for maintenance, training of pilots and technicians, armaments and spares.

Qatar has recently signed a deal worth over USD 7 billion for 24 Rafale jets. This includes MBDA missiles and the cost for the training of 36 Qatari pilots and 100 technicians. The value of each aircraft thus comes to over USD 290 million.

Asked if that price would be acceptable to India, the sources said it would have been "very expensive".

Modi has said that the aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by Indian Air Force, and with a longer maintenance responsibility by France.

PTI
 
Air Force in the world - MBDA & Qatar
Qatar Emiri Air Force To Get The Full Range of MBDA Missiles for its 24 Rafale fighters

By Nathan Gain
Air Recognition
learned some of the contract details signed between missiles manufacturer MBDA and the Qatar Emirate. According to an industry source who wished to remain unnamed, this contract includes the full range of Rafale weapons available for export: Exocet AM 39 Block II, SCALP, AASM, MICA IR, MICA EM and Meteor missiles. Air Recognition understands this order would be the largest export contract ever signed by MBDA.


Qatar_Emiri_Air_Force_To_Get_The_Full_Range_of_MBDA_Missiles_for_its_24_Rafales_640_001.jpg

An AM39 Exocet Anti-ship missile fitted on a Rafale center fuselage pylon (along with 6x MICA missiles and 2 external fuel tanks)
( Picture: MBDA
)

In addition to the 24 Rafale fighter aircraft, the $7bn contract signed on May 4 2015 by France and Qatar also includes training for 36 Qatari pilots and 100 technicians and the following MBDA missiles:
60 Exocet AM39 Block2 Mod2 anti-ship missiles

The Exocet AM39 is the airborne version of the Exocet anti-ship missile family. Exocet AM39 is in service with the French armed forces and the navies of 11 other countries. In January 2004, the French DGA (Direction Générale de l’Armement) awarded MBDA with the contract covering the development of both the Exocet AM39 Block2 Mod2 and the Exocet MM40 Block3. In June 2007, the latest Mod2 development of the Exocet AM39 Block2 completed its final validation firing from a naval Rafale F3 combat aircraft. The firing also served as the validation firing for the Rafale in its F3 standard. An operational evaluation firing took place in September 2012 from a Rafale marking the end of military testing and the start of the missile’s operational life on this aircraft. The Mod2 evolution has seen the digitisation of Exocet AM39 Block2, an adaptation called for by the requirements of the latest generation of rotary and fixed wing aircraft such as the Rafale F3.


Qatar_Emiri_Air_Force_To_Get_The_Full_Range_of_MBDA_Missiles_for_its_24_Rafales_640_002.jpg
A Rafale fighter aircraft fitted with 2x MICA IR (wing tips), 2x MICA EM, 2x SCALP/Storm Shadow and 3x fuel tanks.
(Picture: French Air Force)


140 SCALP Cruise Missiles
The Storm Shadow /SCALP missile (Système de Croisière Autonome à Longue Portée) is a long-range, air-launched, stand-off attack missile. The missile is intended to strike high-valued stationary assets such as airbases, radar installations, communications hubs and port facilities. The SCALP is capable of engaging the targets precisely in any weather conditions during day and night. The long range and low attitude combined with subsonic speed make the Storm Shadow a stealthy missile.

Storm Shadow was successfully deployed on Tornado GR4 combat aircraft by the Royal Air Force’s 617 “Dambusters” Squadron during Operation Telic in 2003. A total of 27 missiles were fired during the conflict delivering significant in-target effect and proving the missile’s exceptional capability to accurately engage targets at extended ranges ensuring that the launch aircraft remains safely away from the target area. The first operational use of SCALP by France in a conflict occurred on March 24, 2011. Several SCALPs were fired against a military air base of Gaddafi’s loyalist forces in Libya. The raid employed two Mirage 2000D and two Rafale Air operated from air bases in France as well as two Rafale Marine operated from the “Charles-de-Gaulle” aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean.

During the same operations in Libya, the Royal Air Force and the Italian Air Force also fired a substantial quantity of Storm Shadows against high value military targets from their Tornado aircraft.


Qatar_Emiri_Air_Force_To_Get_The_Full_Range_of_MBDA_Missiles_for_its_24_Rafales_640_003.jpg
A Rafale in heavy configuration: Featuring 6x AASM, 2x MICA IR (wingtips), 2x MICA EM and 2x METEOR long range air to air missiles
(Picture: Dassault Aviation)


300 AASM weapons systems
The Armement Air-Sol Modulaire (AASM) HAMMER (Highly Agile Modular Munition Extended Range) is a new generation medium-range modular air-to-ground weapon designed and manufactured by Sagem (Safran group), and marketed by MBDA. The standard AASM GPS/inertial version has been deployed onboard Rafale twin-jet, multi-role combat fighters of French Air Force and Navy since 2008 and 2010 respectively. Up to six hammer missiles can be carried by a Rafale fighter. The AASM weapon system has a length of 3m and weight of 330kg, and has a range of over 60km at high altitudes and 15km at low altitudes. It has fire and forget capability, and an extended stand-off capacity.

150 MICA IR and 150 MICA EM air to air missiles

MICA is the reference multi-mission air to-air missile system for the Rafale and the latest versions of the Mirage 2000 combat aircraft. Developed by MBDA, MICA provides a high level of tactical flexibility. The MICA system comprises 2 versions: MICA (EM) RF with an active radio frequency seeker and MICA IR with a passive dual waveband imaging infrared seeker. Both missiles are fully qualified and in mass production, being currently flown by numerous air forces worldwide

A “full MICA” configuration on an aircraft such as Rafale gives a very flexible and high BVR fire power for Air Superiority during all kind of missions: combat air patrol, sweep, deep strike, recce, maritime operations. MICA missile in BVR mode introduces a new way of waging air combat by offering multi-target capability at extended ranges with the two interoperable guidance systems to hamper enemy counter measures. All carried (EM) RF or IR MICA missiles are fully BVR, being operable with or without data link target designation updating.

In short range (SR) combat, a MICA configuration on an aircraft offers a full "new generation" capability thanks to the outstanding performance of the missile (extreme agility and manoeuvrability). An additional advantage lies in the possibility of launching MICA with its seeker (namely IR) either locked-on to the target or not, while still featuring all BVR qualities.


Qatar_Emiri_Air_Force_To_Get_The_Full_Range_of_MBDA_Missiles_for_its_24_Rafales_640_004.jpg
On 28th April 2015 teams from the French Ministry of Defence, Dassault Aviation and MBDA carried out the first guided firing of the long-range Meteor missile against an air target from a Rafale combat aircraft.
(Picture: DGA)


160 Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missile
The Meteor is a next generation, active radar-guided, beyond visual range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) system. The missile has a range in excess of 100km. It is designed for a speed greater than Mach 4. The missile has a large no escape zone. With a throttleable ramjet motor and ‘fire and forget’ firing mode, Meteor is intended for very long BVR (Beyond Visual Range) air defence operations.

Thanks to the performance of the RBE2 AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar which equips the Rafale (the only European combat aircraft currently equipped operationally with this kind of sensor), it is able to intercept targets at very long range thereby complementing the currently deployed MICA missile used for combat and self defence. The first Meteor missiles will be delivered as of 2018 to equip the Rafales of the French Air Force and Navy.

Qatar Emiri Air Force To Get The Full Range of MBDA Missiles for its 24 Rafale fighters 0705152

In Short
  • 24 Rafales
  • The $7bn contract
  • Training for 36 Qatari pilots and 100 technicians
  • 60 Exocet AM39 Block2 Mod2 anti-ship missiles
  • 140 SCALP Cruise Missiles
  • 300 AASM weapons systems
  • 150 MICA IR
  • 150 MICA EM air to air missiles
  • 160 Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missile
@sancho @Abingdonboy @MilSpec @Gabriel92 @halloweene @DrSomnath999
A rough estimate of all in cost at 290 Mn per bird for the whole package looks good, is nt it? The missile configuration as part of weapons contract looks impressive. As if Qatar is readying for a war mode with 24 rafales!!!
BTW if we just have to guesstimate, what you folks think of India's weapon deal order? Surely these same weapons package (perhaps with higher numbers) would indicate and may even trigger a much larger fear among its adversaries. But also the higher number may indicate a rationale to use the weapons in some other platform (which atm seems difficult unless MBDA agrees to custom code it for say Su30 MKIs). But all in all a very impressive weapon load for Qatari Rafales..


 
BTW if we just have to guesstimate, what you folks think of India's weapon deal order?

Not necessarily the same one, once because we still aim on the F3+ not the F3R as Qatar, but also because IAF wanted customizations, while Qatar just took what the French had integrated or are developing anyway.
At least the first 36 are not likely to come with METEOR, the fact that we haven't selected AASM for the M2K upgrade and went with SPICE, makes the Israeli weapon a more likely choice. With the arrival of the SPICE 250 makes it even more difficult for the AASM and the Exocet should have no chance at all, since IAF and IN prefers the Harpoon. Which makes MICA to the only clear commonality to the Qatari weapon pack.
But then again, this is based on the initial IAF requirements and the MMRCA tender, the way the new government messes things up, I wouldn't be too surprised if they reduce the number of customizations and capability improvements, so who knows?
 
Ministry of Defence
05-May, 2015 16:54 IST

Capability for Domestic Production of Rafale Aircrafts

An advance aircraft such as Rafale can be produced in India after Transfer of Technology (ToT) by the Original Aircraft Manufacturer. As per the India-France Joint Statement issued by the two countries during the Prime Minister’s visit to France, Government of India conveyed to the Government of France that in view of the critical operational necessity for Multirole Combat Aircraft for Indian Air Force (IAF), Government of India would like to acquire 36 Rafale jets in fly-away condition as quickly as possible. The two leaders agreed to conclude an Inter-Governmental Agreement for supply of the aircraft on terms that would be better than conveyed by Dassault Aviation as part of a separate process underway, the delivery would be in time-frame that would be compatible with the operational requirement of IAF; and that the aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by IAF, and with a longer maintenance responsibility by France.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri Manohar Parrikar in a written reply to Shri Ravi Prakash Verma in Rajya Sabha today.

DM/HH/RAJ  
(Release ID :121204)

Last Updated: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - 23:49
Rafale delivery in accordance with IAF's operational needs: Govt | Zee News


New Delhi: The delivery of 36 Rafale fighter jets from France would be in a time frame compatible with the operational requirement of the IAF, the Rajya Sabha was told on Tuesday.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar also said the 36 aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by the IAF, and with with a longer maintenance responsibility by France.

In a written reply, Parrikar said India would like to acquire the jets in "fly away" condition as quickly as possible.

He was referring to an agreement signed between India and France during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Paris.

He also said an inter-governmental agreement has been signed with the Russian Federation for design, development, production of a Prospective Multi Role Fighter Aircraft.

India has in recent years launched a vast defence modernisation programme worth some USD 100 billion, partly to keep up with rival neighbours Pakistan and China.

PTI

The IAF is committed to procuring an initial 83 Tejas Mk 2s and the Indian Navy has expressed its firm requirement for 46 LCA Mk2 (Navy).[58][149][150]



Tejas Mark 3[edit]

The Tejas Mark 3 is planned to be stealthier than Mark 2 and have composite usage up to 70 percent of the aircraft. It is to also feature reduced infrared signature.[152]
 
Where you found Rafale deal fall?? We just change the way to purchase them.

First 36 built by france.. mean while we will sign deal to built them locally with some private company. Number will remain same.
Keep dreaming....per official statement MRCA tender is dead, they will go 36 in govt to govt deal with probably a few more if finances allow it. no home manufacturing that's a big no no
 

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