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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

India Unlikely To Buy Additional Rafale Fighter Jets, MoD Source Says
By: Vivek Raghuvanshi, October 5, 2016 (Photo Credit: HESJA)

NEW DELHI — India is unlikely to acquire additional Rafale fighter jets because the Indian Air Force (IAF) is "fully satisfied" following the recently signed $8.8 billion deal to purchase 36 of the fighters, according to a source with the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD).

"[N]o additional purchase is being contemplated," the MoD source said of the aircraft.

The Sept. 23 contract between India and France has no optional clause for additional fighters, which would mean any additional purchases would have to be negotiated with a fresh price, the source added.

However, Amit Cowshish, a former financial adviser for the MoD, said the "absence of [an] option[al] clause does not rule out the possibility of acquiring more of the same aircraft," adding that "even a separate contract can be negotiated at the same price."

"Indian Air Force just has 33 squadrons as against the felt need of 42 to 45 squadrons. This strength will go down further as 10-11 squadrons are scheduled to be phased out in the next few years. It is in this background that the possibility of new Rafale fighters aircraft assumes significance," Cowshish said.

Although there could be a future need for more fighters, Cowshish said: "It seems unlikely that the entire requirement will be made up by acquiring Rafale aircraft, for had that been the intention India would not have gone in for acquisition of just two squadrons at this stage."

At an Oct. 5 news conference here, Chief of the Air Staff of the Indian Air Force (IAF) Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said: "Any air force would be proud to have aircraft of the Rafale class, which is in the mid-weight category." On the possibility of buying additional Rafale, Raha said: "A decision on more numbers of Rafale jets will be taken in the near future, which would be based on its capability."

However, Vivek Rae, the MoD's former director general of acquisition, said that "given the depleted strength of IAF squadrons, it is clear that IAF will have to purchase more Rafale aircraft in [the] future. The quantum will depend on availability of funds."

"The truncated Rafale deal is the direct outcome of budgetary constraints," Rae added. India had chose to buy only 36 Rafale after cancelling the program to acquire 126 Rafale

IAF officials, however, say adding additional types of fighter aircraft to the fleet would not be as economical as purchasing additional Rafale jets.

"It is obvious that the long-term, per-aircraft maintenance costs of a small fleet of aircraft will always be higher than for larger numbers, whether there are life cycle guarantees or otherwise," said Subhash
Bhojwani, a retired IAF air marshal and defense analyst.

IAF currently has seven aircraft types: Sukhoi Su-30MKI, Mirage 2000, Jaguar, MiG-29, MiG-27, MiG-21 and homemade Tejas Light Combat Aircraft. The Rafale will be the eighth type.

"With no clear indication as of now that additional Rafale would be bought, a window is open wide for the acquisition of another type of fighter," another MoD source said.

Daljit Singh, a retired IAF air marshal and defense analyst said: "IAF requirement was for 126 aircraft and that requirement still holds. Also, the defence minister has announced that the government would earmark one fighter by the end of the year that would be manufactured in India. Whether it would be Rafale or not is not clear as yet."

http://www.defensenews.com/articles...dditional-rafale-fighter-jets-mod-source-says
 
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India Unlikely To Buy Additional Rafale Fighter Jets, MoD Source Says
By: Vivek Raghuvanshi, October 5, 2016 (Photo Credit: HESJA)

NEW DELHI — India is unlikely to acquire additional Rafale fighter jets because the Indian Air Force (IAF) is "fully satisfied" following the recently signed $8.8 billion deal to purchase 36 of the fighters, according to a source with the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD).

"[N]o additional purchase is being contemplated," the MoD source said of the aircraft.

The Sept. 23 contract between India and France has no optional clause for additional fighters, which would mean any additional purchases would have to be negotiated with a fresh price, the source added.

However, Amit Cowshish, a former financial adviser for the MoD, said the "absence of [an] option[al] clause does not rule out the possibility of acquiring more of the same aircraft," adding that "even a separate contract can be negotiated at the same price."

"Indian Air Force just has 33 squadrons as against the felt need of 42 to 45 squadrons. This strength will go down further as 10-11 squadrons are scheduled to be phased out in the next few years. It is in this background that the possibility of new Rafale fighters aircraft assumes significance," Cowshish said.

Although there could be a future need for more fighters, Cowshish said: "It seems unlikely that the entire requirement will be made up by acquiring Rafale aircraft, for had that been the intention India would not have gone in for acquisition of just two squadrons at this stage."

At an Oct. 5 news conference here, Chief of the Air Staff of the Indian Air Force (IAF) Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said: "Any air force would be proud to have aircraft of the Rafale class, which is in the mid-weight category." On the possibility of buying additional Rafale, Raha said: "A decision on more numbers of Rafale jets will be taken in the near future, which would be based on its capability."

However, Vivek Rae, the MoD's former director general of acquisition, said that "given the depleted strength of IAF squadrons, it is clear that IAF will have to purchase more Rafale aircraft in [the] future. The quantum will depend on availability of funds."

"The truncated Rafale deal is the direct outcome of budgetary constraints," Rae added. India had chose to buy only 36 Rafale after cancelling the program to acquire 126 Rafale

IAF officials, however, say adding additional types of fighter aircraft to the fleet would not be as economical as purchasing additional Rafale jets.

"It is obvious that the long-term, per-aircraft maintenance costs of a small fleet of aircraft will always be higher than for larger numbers, whether there are life cycle guarantees or otherwise," said Subhash
Bhojwani, a retired IAF air marshal and defense analyst.

IAF currently has seven aircraft types: Sukhoi Su-30MKI, Mirage 2000, Jaguar, MiG-29, MiG-27, MiG-21 and homemade Tejas Light Combat Aircraft. The Rafale will be the eighth type.

"With no clear indication as of now that additional Rafale would be bought, a window is open wide for the acquisition of another type of fighter," another MoD source said.

Daljit Singh, a retired IAF air marshal and defense analyst said: "IAF requirement was for 126 aircraft and that requirement still holds. Also, the defence minister has announced that the government would earmark one fighter by the end of the year that would be manufactured in India. Whether it would be Rafale or not is not clear as yet."

http://www.defensenews.com/articles...dditional-rafale-fighter-jets-mod-source-says

[QUOTE="Ankit Kumar 002, post: 8775522, member: 175660"][USER=153263]@PARIKRAMA
@Abingdonboy

Not everyone is able to digest the Rafale deal. I have confirmed alert about atleast 2 leading news portals soon ( by this night ) coming with articles about India not likely to buy more Rafale due to high costs according to "" Government Official "", OR " NO more Rafales than the 36, at this moment as IAF wants a light aircraft ".

Remember me when within 24 hours you see it.[/QUOTE]
@Ankit Kumar 002
Seems you are right sir!![/USER]
 
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India Unlikely To Buy Additional Rafale Fighter Jets, MoD Source Says
By: Vivek Raghuvanshi, October 5, 2016 (Photo Credit: HESJA)

NEW DELHI — India is unlikely to acquire additional Rafale fighter jets because the Indian Air Force (IAF) is "fully satisfied" following the recently signed $8.8 billion deal to purchase 36 of the fighters, according to a source with the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD).

"[N]o additional purchase is being contemplated," the MoD source said of the aircraft.

The Sept. 23 contract between India and France has no optional clause for additional fighters, which would mean any additional purchases would have to be negotiated with a fresh price, the source added.

However, Amit Cowshish, a former financial adviser for the MoD, said the "absence of [an] option[al] clause does not rule out the possibility of acquiring more of the same aircraft," adding that "even a separate contract can be negotiated at the same price."

"Indian Air Force just has 33 squadrons as against the felt need of 42 to 45 squadrons. This strength will go down further as 10-11 squadrons are scheduled to be phased out in the next few years. It is in this background that the possibility of new Rafale fighters aircraft assumes significance," Cowshish said.

Although there could be a future need for more fighters, Cowshish said: "It seems unlikely that the entire requirement will be made up by acquiring Rafale aircraft, for had that been the intention India would not have gone in for acquisition of just two squadrons at this stage."

At an Oct. 5 news conference here, Chief of the Air Staff of the Indian Air Force (IAF) Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said: "Any air force would be proud to have aircraft of the Rafale class, which is in the mid-weight category." On the possibility of buying additional Rafale, Raha said: "A decision on more numbers of Rafale jets will be taken in the near future, which would be based on its capability."

However, Vivek Rae, the MoD's former director general of acquisition, said that "given the depleted strength of IAF squadrons, it is clear that IAF will have to purchase more Rafale aircraft in [the] future. The quantum will depend on availability of funds."

"The truncated Rafale deal is the direct outcome of budgetary constraints," Rae added. India had chose to buy only 36 Rafale after cancelling the program to acquire 126 Rafale

IAF officials, however, say adding additional types of fighter aircraft to the fleet would not be as economical as purchasing additional Rafale jets.

"It is obvious that the long-term, per-aircraft maintenance costs of a small fleet of aircraft will always be higher than for larger numbers, whether there are life cycle guarantees or otherwise," said Subhash
Bhojwani, a retired IAF air marshal and defense analyst.

IAF currently has seven aircraft types: Sukhoi Su-30MKI, Mirage 2000, Jaguar, MiG-29, MiG-27, MiG-21 and homemade Tejas Light Combat Aircraft. The Rafale will be the eighth type.

"With no clear indication as of now that additional Rafale would be bought, a window is open wide for the acquisition of another type of fighter," another MoD source said.

Daljit Singh, a retired IAF air marshal and defense analyst said: "IAF requirement was for 126 aircraft and that requirement still holds. Also, the defence minister has announced that the government would earmark one fighter by the end of the year that would be manufactured in India. Whether it would be Rafale or not is not clear as yet."

http://www.defensenews.com/articles...dditional-rafale-fighter-jets-mod-source-says
I truly like Sources - they are so fun !!! (and BS)
 
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@Taygibay @Picdelamirand-oil @BON PLAN @Louiq XIV @halloweene

Please,N joy.

dkc.jpg
 
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I had seen it already, mec but thanks nonetheless!

For PDF members, the above are quotes by commenters, blogs
and even news sources describing the Rafale as impossible to sell.
Some of those brilliant morons even suggested that the government
should pull the plug on the program as recently as days before Egypt
asked about it so less than 24 months ago ...

It may reassure Indians to know that we have logic-lacking clowns too?

Sigh out, Tay.
 
.
I had seen it already, mec but thanks nonetheless!

For PDF members, the above are quotes by commenters, blogs
and even news sources describing the Rafale as impossible to sell.
Some of those brilliant morons even suggested that the government
should pull the plug on the program as recently as days before Egypt
asked about it so less than 24 months ago ...

It may reassure Indians to know that we have logic-lacking clowns too?

Sigh out, Tay.
lol... every Post has the word

"invendable" - unsaleable, unmarketable
 
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India Unlikely To Buy Additional Rafale Fighter Jets, MoD Source Says
By: Vivek Raghuvanshi, October 5, 2016 (Photo Credit: HESJA)

NEW DELHI — India is unlikely to acquire additional Rafale fighter jets because the Indian Air Force (IAF) is "fully satisfied" following the recently signed $8.8 billion deal to purchase 36 of the fighters, according to a source with the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD).

"[N]o additional purchase is being contemplated," the MoD source said of the aircraft.

The Sept. 23 contract between India and France has no optional clause for additional fighters, which would mean any additional purchases would have to be negotiated with a fresh price, the source added.

However, Amit Cowshish, a former financial adviser for the MoD, said the "absence of [an] option[al] clause does not rule out the possibility of acquiring more of the same aircraft," adding that "even a separate contract can be negotiated at the same price."

"Indian Air Force just has 33 squadrons as against the felt need of 42 to 45 squadrons. This strength will go down further as 10-11 squadrons are scheduled to be phased out in the next few years. It is in this background that the possibility of new Rafale fighters aircraft assumes significance," Cowshish said.

Although there could be a future need for more fighters, Cowshish said: "It seems unlikely that the entire requirement will be made up by acquiring Rafale aircraft, for had that been the intention India would not have gone in for acquisition of just two squadrons at this stage."

At an Oct. 5 news conference here, Chief of the Air Staff of the Indian Air Force (IAF) Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said: "Any air force would be proud to have aircraft of the Rafale class, which is in the mid-weight category." On the possibility of buying additional Rafale, Raha said: "A decision on more numbers of Rafale jets will be taken in the near future, which would be based on its capability."

However, Vivek Rae, the MoD's former director general of acquisition, said that "given the depleted strength of IAF squadrons, it is clear that IAF will have to purchase more Rafale aircraft in [the] future. The quantum will depend on availability of funds."

"The truncated Rafale deal is the direct outcome of budgetary constraints," Rae added. India had chose to buy only 36 Rafale after cancelling the program to acquire 126 Rafale

IAF officials, however, say adding additional types of fighter aircraft to the fleet would not be as economical as purchasing additional Rafale jets.

"It is obvious that the long-term, per-aircraft maintenance costs of a small fleet of aircraft will always be higher than for larger numbers, whether there are life cycle guarantees or otherwise," said Subhash
Bhojwani, a retired IAF air marshal and defense analyst.

IAF currently has seven aircraft types: Sukhoi Su-30MKI, Mirage 2000, Jaguar, MiG-29, MiG-27, MiG-21 and homemade Tejas Light Combat Aircraft. The Rafale will be the eighth type.

"With no clear indication as of now that additional Rafale would be bought, a window is open wide for the acquisition of another type of fighter," another MoD source said.

Daljit Singh, a retired IAF air marshal and defense analyst said: "IAF requirement was for 126 aircraft and that requirement still holds. Also, the defence minister has announced that the government would earmark one fighter by the end of the year that would be manufactured in India. Whether it would be Rafale or not is not clear as yet."

http://www.defensenews.com/articles...dditional-rafale-fighter-jets-mod-source-says
The entire assertion of the article (no more Rafales) is entirely undermined by actual defence exports quoted thereafter and finally nailed in the last paragraph where it is clear nothing is set in stone so to be proclaiming no more Rafales is beyond asinine.

As is all too typical for these propaganda pieces, the sole justification for their absurd assertions are not logic or any sensible argument but "unnamed sources".

Not a word on why the GoI is paying a hefty €1.8 BILLION for Indian specific upgrades on the Rafale or why France is parting with ToT for just 36 birds. If one takes an objective look at the facts it is impossible to truly assert that more Rafales aren't a certainty.


I guess these are the same unnamed sources that a few months were saying the Rafale would never be ordered by India, Spetember 23rd told a different story. . Now they have moved onto the MII element but will be just as incorrect in time.
 
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Your people and journalists are better than ours believe me. If only you knew what they are saying about our weapons and their Sale to foreign countries.:lol:

@BON PLAN , , @Taygibay, @Vergennes .
il faut laisser parler les gens.:agree:


Il faut arriver à lâcher prise avec « le qu’en dira-t-on » car malgré tous les efforts que tu puisses faire, rien ne pourra arrêter les gens de parler, d’ébruiter des ragots, s’ils en ont envie.:agree:

Donc comme on dit souvent: le chien aboie la caravane passe.:whistle:
 
. . .
I had seen it already, mec but thanks nonetheless!

For PDF members, the above are quotes by commenters, blogs
and even news sources describing the Rafale as impossible to sell.
Some of those brilliant morons even suggested that the government
should pull the plug on the program as recently as days before Egypt
asked about it so less than 24 months ago ...

It may reassure Indians to know that we have logic-lacking clowns too?

Sigh out, Tay.

Most of the people who criticize the Rafale have no clue about fighter aircraft in general.
 
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Most of the people who criticize the Rafale have no clue about fighter aircraft in general.

Isn't that true for anybody who criticises anything ?

Not everybody is a an expert critic nor are they required to be one. Not even people who criticise politicians and vote.

No need to place the object of any criticism on an Ivory Tower.
 
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Isn't that true for anybody who criticises anything ?

Not everybody is a an expert critic nor are they required to be one. Not even people who criticise politicians and vote.

No need to place the object of any criticism on an Ivory Tower.

There is a difference between criticizing bad stuff and good stuff.

The bigger issue is some of these people have the power to put military deals on hold because they are influenced by such criticism. Like Sanjay Gandhi put a hold on the Jaguar procurement process because he 'thought' the Viggen was better. The IAF had to step in and allay his fears.

The Indian military's choices have to be put on an Ivory Tower regardless of whether it is bad or good, hence above criticism. History has given them that leeway.

Anyway, we digress. The point I was making was the Rafale is so good that it does not give any reason for criticism.
 
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There is a difference between criticizing bad stuff and good stuff.

The bigger issue is some of these people have the power to put military deals on hold because they are influenced by such criticism. Like Sanjay Gandhi put a hold on the Jaguar procurement process because he 'thought' the Viggen was better. The IAF had to step in and allay his fears.

The Indian military's choices have to be put on an Ivory Tower regardless of whether it is bad or good, hence above criticism. History has given them that leeway.

Anyway, we digress. The point I was making was the Rafale is so good that it does not give any reason for criticism.

There is no 'good stuff' and 'bad stuff', that is like saying 'good terrorism' and 'bad terrorism'. Everything and everybody is open to criticism.

The days of Nehru-gandhi monopoly and interference in Indian policy and process is long gone. India is now a mature democracy, not a fledgling democracy like in the past.

Also Indian institutions are now firmly established and have undergone trial by fire during the 'Emergency' and has come out stronger for it.

Finally about Rafale, since the requirement for the offset was 50% and so far there is only a clear roadmap and time line for 20% offset, there is much scope for criticism. There is a timeline for delivery of aircraft that is made public, but there is a mysterious silence on the documented road-map and TIMELINE for implementation of the offset. This again opens it up for strong criticism.

Not to mention that the IAF requirement of 126 aircraft's is still to be firmly decided and is still open for consideration.

So any and all criticism is fair in this case. You do not have to like it, but you have to accept it.
 
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