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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

Rafale deal: India set to ink pact with France on Friday after cabinet nod

New Delhi: The government has cleared the much anticipated deal with France for 36 Rafale fighter jets which will cost 7.878 billion Euros and will be signed on Friday in the presence of French Defence Minister Jean Yves Le Drian.

Defence sources said that deal for the aircraft, the first fighter jet deal in 20 years, comes with a saving of nearly 750 million Euros than the UPA era one, which was scrapped by the Narendra Modi government, besides a 50 percent offset clause.

rafale-380-reuters.jpg

File image of a Rafale aircraft. Reuters

This means business worth at least three billion Euros for Indian companies, both big and small, and generating hundreds of jobs in India through offsets. The Rafale fighter jets, deliveries of which will start in 36 months and finished in 66 months from the date contract is inked, comes equipped with state-of-the-art missiles like Meteor and Scalp that will give the IAF a capability that had been sorely missing in itsarsenal.

Sources said the government on Wednesday formally cleared the Inter Governmental Agreement to be signed on Friday in the presence of Drian who arrives on Thursday evening along with CEOs of Dassault Aviation, Thales and MBDA and top government officials.

The contract for the deal was already cleared by the Cabinet Committee on Security earlier. The price of the contract was fixed in May, sources said. Sources said the "vanila price" (just the 36 aircraft) is about 3.42 billion Euros. The armaments cost about 710 million Euros while Indian specific changes, including integration of Israeli helmet mounted displays, will cost 1700 million Euros.

Rest of the cost include spare parts, maintenance among others. Besides other features that make the Rafale a strategic weapon in the hands of the IAF is the Beyond Visual Range Meteor air-to-air missile with a range in excess of 150 km. Its integration on the Rafale jets will mean the IAF can hit targets inside both Pakistan and across the northern and eastern borders while still staying within India's own territorial boundary.

Pakistan currently has only a BVR with 80 km range. During the Kargil war, India used a BVR of 50 km while Pakistan had none. With Meteor, the balance of power in the air space has again tilted in India's favour. Scalp, a long-range air-to-ground cruise missile with a range in excess of 300 km also gives the IAF an edge over its adversaries.

The tough negotiations by the MoD-IAF team extracted many concessions and discounts from the French before arriving at a price that is almost 750 million Euros less than what was being quoted by the French side in January 2016.

This was when the commercial negotiations gathered pace, almost seven months after Prime Minister Narendra Modiannounced India's intention to buy 36 Rafales off the shelf from France during his trip to Paris in April 2015.

http://www.firstpost.com/india/rafa...ance-on-friday-after-cabinet-nod-3014714.html

For instance, Dassault will have to ensure that at least 75 per cent of the entire fleet remains operational at any given time. This warranty is signed for the first five years.

Three other minor but important concessions include free training for nine IAF personnel, including three pilots; additional guarantee for 60 hours of usage of training aircraft for Indian pilots and six months of free weapons storage without charge (in case the Indian infrastructure is not ready for storing the weapons).

he contract will also include state-of-the-art missiles like Meteor and Scalp that will give the IAF a capability that had been sorely missing in its arsenal.

Have a look again what i posted before

upload_2016-9-21_21-37-2.png

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-327#post-8688450

See Clearly
  • 75% point availability Part 2 point 2.
  • Look at part 2 point 1.
  • weapons Euro 0.7 Bn
  • Customizations Euro 1.8 Bn whereas the newspaper quotes 1.7 Bn
  • In short Plane+financial cost+Logistics support - Euro 3.55 again some items moved to other heads to quote 3.42 which newspaper says plain vanilla but thats not the case.
  • I said about Le Drian as well as soon you will hear about Prez Hollande in October 2016 as well.
Good to see all things are here..
 
The Rafale fighter jets comes equipped with state-of-the-art missiles like Meteor and Scalp.

The government has cleared the much anticipated deal with France for 36 Rafale fighter jets which will cost 7.878 billion Euros and will be signed on Friday in the presence of French Defence Minister Jean Yves Le Drian...

Defence sources said that deal for the aircraft, the first fighter jet deal in 20 years, comes with a saving of nearly 750 million Euros than the UPA , which was scrapped by the Narendra Modi government, besides a 50 per cent offset clause.

The Rafale fighter jets, deliveries of which will start in 36 months and finished in 66 months from the date contract is inked, comes equipped with state-of-the-art missiles like Meteor and Scalp that will give the IAF a capability that had been sorely missing in its arsenal.......


Sources said the government on Wednesday formally cleared the Inter Governmental Agreement to be signed on Friday in the presence of Drian who arrives with CEOs of Dassault Aviation, Thales and MBDA and top government officials.

The contract for the deal was already cleared by the Cabinet Committee on Security earlier. The price of the contract was fixed in May,Sources said the "vanila price" (just the 36 aircraft) is about 3.42 billion Euros. The armaments cost about 710 million Euros while Indian specific changes, including integration of Israeli helmet mounted displays, will cost 1700 million Euros. Rest of the cost include spare parts, maintenance
among others......


Besides other features that make the Rafale a strategic weapon in the hands of the IAF is the Beyond Visual Range Meteor air-to-air missile with a range in excess of 150 KM.......

Its integration on the Rafale jets will mean the IAF can hit targets inside both Pakistan and across the northern and eastern borders while still staying within India's own territorial boundary.......


Pakistan currently has only a BVR with 80 km range. During the Kargil war, India used a BVR of 50 km while Pakistan had none. With Meteor, the balance of power in the air space has again tilted in India's favour.......


Scalp, a long-range air-to-ground cruise missile with a range in excess of 300 km also gives the IAF an edge over its adversaries.

The tough negotiations by the MoD-IAF team extracted many concessions and discounts from the French before arriving at a price that is almost 750 mill..Euros less than what was being quoted by the French side in January 2016. This was when the commercial negotiations gathered pace, almost seven months after Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced India's intention to buy 36 Rafales off the shelf from France during his trip to Paris in April 2015......

@PARIKRAMA @MilSpec @gslv @SrNair@nairsaab etx

...
 
In high altitude you need longer. TAR has average 4000 m length airfields.

The more practical and alternate appreciation is that they can indeed take off with maximal load for a strike. There is no limitation.

Leh did not have the problem for Su-30 if I recall correctly. Even if they have to carry less fuel, a pre-positioned refueller takes care of it. Hence my looking for a clarification because this is a decade and a half back thought process.

Using fighters as refueler can cut your numbers by 30% for strike missions. And using a dedicated refueler increases transit time to and from safe locations.
 
http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Ind...ith-France-on-Friday/articleshow/54447844.cms

Rafale deal: India set to ink pact with France on Friday after cabinet nod

New Delhi: The government has cleared the much anticipated deal with France for 36 Rafale fighter jets which will cost 7.878 billion Euros and will be signed on Friday in the presence of French Defence Minister Jean Yves Le Drian.

Defence sources said that deal for the aircraft, the first fighter jet deal in 20 years, comes with a saving of nearly 750 million Euros than the UPA era one, which was scrapped by the Narendra Modi government, besides a 50 percent offset clause.

rafale-380-reuters.jpg

File image of a Rafale aircraft. Reuters

This means business worth at least three billion Euros for Indian companies, both big and small, and generating hundreds of jobs in India through offsets. The Rafale fighter jets, deliveries of which will start in 36 months and finished in 66 months from the date contract is inked, comes equipped with state-of-the-art missiles like Meteor and Scalp that will give the IAF a capability that had been sorely missing in itsarsenal.

Sources said the government on Wednesday formally cleared the Inter Governmental Agreement to be signed on Friday in the presence of Drian who arrives on Thursday evening along with CEOs of Dassault Aviation, Thales and MBDA and top government officials.

The contract for the deal was already cleared by the Cabinet Committee on Security earlier. The price of the contract was fixed in May, sources said. Sources said the "vanila price" (just the 36 aircraft) is about 3.42 billion Euros. The armaments cost about 710 million Euros while Indian specific changes, including integration of Israeli helmet mounted displays, will cost 1700 million Euros.

Rest of the cost include spare parts, maintenance among others. Besides other features that make the Rafale a strategic weapon in the hands of the IAF is the Beyond Visual Range Meteor air-to-air missile with a range in excess of 150 km. Its integration on the Rafale jets will mean the IAF can hit targets inside both Pakistan and across the northern and eastern borders while still staying within India's own territorial boundary.

Pakistan currently has only a BVR with 80 km range. During the Kargil war, India used a BVR of 50 km while Pakistan had none. With Meteor, the balance of power in the air space has again tilted in India's favour. Scalp, a long-range air-to-ground cruise missile with a range in excess of 300 km also gives the IAF an edge over its adversaries.

The tough negotiations by the MoD-IAF team extracted many concessions and discounts from the French before arriving at a price that is almost 750 million Euros less than what was being quoted by the French side in January 2016.

This was when the commercial negotiations gathered pace, almost seven months after Prime Minister Narendra Modiannounced India's intention to buy 36 Rafales off the shelf from France during his trip to Paris in April 2015.

http://www.firstpost.com/india/rafa...ance-on-friday-after-cabinet-nod-3014714.html







Have a look again what i posted before

View attachment 336548
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-327#post-8688450

See Clearly
  • 75% point availability Part 2 point 2.
  • Look at part 2 point 1.
  • weapons Euro 0.7 Bn
  • Customizations Euro 1.8 Bn whereas the newspaper quotes 1.7 Bn
  • In short Plane+financial cost+Logistics support - Euro 3.55 again some items moved to other heads to quote 3.42 which newspaper says plain vanilla but thats not the case.
  • I said about Le Drian as well as soon you will hear about Prez Hollande in October 2016 as well.
Good to see all things are here..
36 aircraft will take more than 5 years?y this much time
 
PAF should stop relying on China for their fighter jets, particularly for high end.

PAF never claimed as such though we are evaluating any option available for us. I will believe ACM words that PAF is looking for such bird in west and east both. No mentioning of China alone at all.


For example, the Chinese call the J-31 a pre-4th gen aircraft. That's basically a 4.5th gen if you go by western parlance.

Chinese Genration system is minus one of that US/West like they call J-20 a 4th Generation whereby such category is defined as 5th by US/West or rest of the world. Same is applied for J series that are 3rd generation for China but as per specs, are 4th Generation for the rest of the world. For China 5th Generation would be what US etc calls 6th Generation.


Stick with Turkey or other countries if you at least want real aircraft.

No Professional Air Force would ever go for any A/C which does not worth today. PAF knows better about where to look and what to have so we are invited by Turkey for TFX as well as there is invitation for FC-31.


The Chinese are only giving you their rejected maal, that's obvious to everyone.

Would be obvious for rivals but not for the Professionals that is why I said, undermining the adversary would cause you more damage by surprise. As China is good by keeping it secret until & unless wanted to share with the world but still prove the mettle by the PLAAF is progressing and birds are growing rapidly by the passage of time. There are analysts and professionals. praising the Chinese achievements though it is just matter of time that soon they are going to close the gape with west and most of them. Those so-called everyone are merely rivals and could be doing some political stunts so we will be taking such statements like failed attempts. PAF is a professional Air Force and knows to fulfill the needs through which mean and based upon what platform which fits the doctrine through proper feasibility and evaluation.

Rest about that Red, Bold highlighted part, very offensive and hopefully you wouldn't repeat such remarks about any sovereign nation(s) as neither they are offering such nor we ever had it but we are happy to deal with China that too in times where PAF was very limited with options to buy any weapon and we are still supporting each other.


In case IAF doesn't go for the Gripen, get your air force to close their eyes and buy it

We have no need for that, JF-17 is growing and is planned with Block-III which is going to fulfill the need in that category so also, it depends upon the doctrine of PAF and currently, there is no interest for Gripen at all or even, if the dire need warrants for such bird, we would prefer J-10s for such class.


Side note: My post was only to remind you that no need to drag in other subject whereby this thread is for Rafale discussion. Enjoy the thread for Rafale.

Thanks.
 
I can confirm - directly from CCS folks

DEAL CLEARED BY CCS, SIGN OFF ON 23RD - FRIDAY

Media outlets will report soon...




+++++
Indian cabinet approves purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets-source
by Reuters
Wednesday, 21 September 2016 14:44 GMT

NEW DELHI, Sept 21 (Reuters) - India's cabinet cleared the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets from Dassault Aviation on Wednesday, paving the way for signing a deal that Prime Minister Narendra Modi is betting on to modernise the air force, a government source told Reuters.

The value of the deal, which had been repeatedly held up as the two sides haggled over financial terms, was not immediately available.

Under the deal, India will get 36 Rafale jets in fly-away condition. India's fighter aircraft fleet, comprising Russian, British and French planes, is down to 33 squadrons as against the air force's requirement of 45 to counter a "two-front collusive threat" from Pakistan and China.

The two countries will sign the final deal on Friday, the source, who did not wish to be named as he is not authorised to speak to the media, said. (Reporting by Nigam Prusty; Editing by Malini Menon)

http://news.trust.org/item/20160921144633-dvdse/

Finally, better late than never. But @PARIKRAMA Sir, I am more interested in the followup order or the MII line. Any insights on that. Now that the 1st hurdle is out of the way.
Many thanks!
 
Using fighters as refueler can cut your numbers by 30% for strike missions. And using a dedicated refueler increases transit time to and from safe locations.

A refueller, not fighters as refuellers, based in situ does not create a problem, I am sure you are aware of the factors for such operations.

Anyways thanks for clarifying the point
 
We waited too long.. in piped queues. Still I think as far as I understand we might get it between 3rd and 4th year max numbers with perhaps a couple of jets beforr 3rd year itself. I see another very small number in 5th year.

++
What's now more important is turn the screw and focus on MII.

This deal is done and dusted and now only formality is left.

Now it's time for MII and quicken the pace. We need it on priority and for our country's security.

Finally, better late than never. But @PARIKRAMA Sir, I am more interested in the followup order or the MII line. Any insights on that. Now that the 1st hurdle is out of the way.
Many thanks!

100% correct.
Time for MII tahts should be the priority. Fasten the pace and get it done quickly.

Till last Rafale comes from Merignac ensure Indian line is up and ready. Taht should be the target
 

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