Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Norge Stronk]

See this is why i wanted you back in main account.. you can be selective in choosing what thread.

Meh, the more I post and the more involved I become the less happy I get with being here. Having myself restricted from certain discussions keeps my blood pressure down and my interest up leading to greater longevity on PDF, or else I just leave after a week due to an ignorance overload.

In any event I'll still be less involved on PDF then I am on AMF. I like the more quiet environment.

you always post good.

When she is in good mood you get cup cakes, pastries, pies and all sweet tasty stuff.. When she is in bad mood, the ban hammer rolls and asterisks in many sentences flows ......

I have no ban hammer here, but I'm still a Viking at my core so you'll have to settle for a pillaging.

It's worth hawking.

I'm sure it is when your connected to the industry like he is. Wouldn't trust such a biased source to advise me on how to make a sandwich.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Too few made + French costs + some extra tech.

Even then it's too much I guess.

 

[Spectre]

I'm sure it is when your connected to the industry like he is. Wouldn't trust such a biased source to advise me on how to make a sandwich.

Eh! Hypocrite.. I seen you hawking Norwegian wares so many times specially baked goods.

 

[randomradio]

I'm sure it is when your connected to the industry like he is. Wouldn't trust such a biased source to advise me on how to make a sandwich.

I would never disagree with that. But it starts making sense once you start looking up leaked evaluations of air forces, actual battles and then match that with claims made.

I mean if you are consistently on top in all evaluations over the last 15 years, fly into A2/AD areas with zero EW support etc, it begins making sense.

What's most important to me is the IAF/SFC want to make the Rafale their premier nuke delivery aircraft without ever having flown it. Our NSA has obviously received more information than just the recipe of a sandwich to make that big a decision.

 

[Norge Stronk]

Eh! Hypocrite.. I seen you hawking Norwegian wares so many times specially baked goods.

I don't hawk what I can eat unless I eat too much!! Me like sweets

You're confusing me with @Freyja

And yes, I hawk Norwegian goods too, but I don't let my playfulness influence my analysis. I'm an engineer, not a saleswomen, so me hawking things is just for fun and people that have read my past posts know that.

...

Did you know that the Harpoon missile is butt? It's true, so buy this Norwegian alternative instead!

But you @Spectre have read enough of my posts to know I wont claim NSM is the world's best AShM without being ironic about it and will give a fair look at anything you ask me to compare it to when analyzing.

I just like to play up the nationalism on PDF to match the overall tone here... I think we had a discussion about this on AMF, didn't we?

 

[Indiran Chandiran]

Even though the Chinese have more numbers, we are qualitatively ahead by a significant margin. For example, they are only now getting ESA radars while we have been operating them for over 15 years.

Our procurement of Rafales will give us the same advantage we had in 2002 with the MKIs. A better aircraft than any of our adversaries's. When they start fielding AESA radars in numbers along with other types of 5th gen avionics, we will have more advanced and mature technologies on the Rafale.

And that advantage will only get better with the Super 30 upgrade and the FGFA.

Plus, the geography is in our advantage because we can take off with full loads, the Chinese can't.

And there's no point comparing the PAF with the IAF. Even our LCAs will be far more advanced than anything they can field over the next decade. The Israelis will develop a digital radar for the LCA Mk1A, the PAF will be lucky to get a decent analog radar for their JF-17s in the meanwhile. They are unable to match up with current gen MKIs today, whereas the upgraded ones will be far beyond their expectations. And with the FGFA we will get a 20+ year lead over them. By 2030, our IN's air wing will be more powerful than the PAF.

Let me play devil's advocate .We still don't know anything about their 5 gen aircraft.I don't expect it to be as good as the Chinese claim it's going to be , on par with what the US or Ru have or will come up with respectively , but it won't be as bad as we wish it to be as well.

The sheer nos by themselves could be overwhelming in the most critical period between 2017-27 ( can be stretched to between 2017-30) coz that's when the shortage of aircraft will be the highest ( paradox) & will hit home.

Coming to Pakistan , how long will the F - 16 continue to be in active service ?

 

[Spectre]

I don't hawk what I eat unless I eat too much!!

You're confusing me with @Freyja

And yes, I hawk Norwegian goods too, but I don't let my playfulness influence my analysis. I'm an engineer, not a saleswomen, so me hawking things is just for fun and people that have read my past posts know that.

...

Did you know that the Harpoon missile is butt? It's true, so buy this Norwegian alternative instead!

But you @Spectre have read enough of my posts to know I wont claim NSM is the world's best AShM without being ironic about it and will give a fair look at anything you ask me to compare it to when analyzing.

I just like to play up the nationalism on PDF to match the overall tone here... I think we had a discussion about this on AMF, didn't we?

I was just pulling your leg.. Though it is indeed sad that you don't pimp @Freyja's pastries. Drum up some business girl.

As for mil hardware, you can hand me a good ol axe and convince me that it is better than a M-82 that's how gullible I am or good people are out here. In the end it comes down to my daddy strongest.. So you French, Brits, Americans, Chinese, Russians all hyping up their goods. Not that anyone here is actually buying anything or has a say in anything.

 

[randomradio]

Let me play devil's advocate .We still don't know anything about their 5 gen aircraft.I don't expect it to be as good as the Chinese claim it's going to be , on par with what the US or Ru have or will come up with respectively , but it won't be as bad as we wish it to be as well.

The J-20 will mature around the same time as the FGFA will. So it's pretty far away. Of course it's too early to say if it will be as good. But they way the Chinese are progressing, it should be on par.

http://rostec.ru/en/research/tecnology/4517645

The sheer nos by themselves could be overwhelming in the most critical period between 2017-27 ( can be stretched to between 2017-30) coz that's when the shortage of aircraft will be the highest ( paradox) & will hit home.

Our lowest numbers will be between 2018 and 2022. After 2022, we will be in a better position because we will be inducting dozens of aircraft a year.

If the LSA works out, then we will have a surplus.

Coming to Pakistan , how long will the F - 16 continue to be in active service ?

Probably 2030 for the As and Bs and 2050 for the Cs and Ds.

 

[nang2]

The J-20 will mature around the same time as the FGFA will. So it's pretty far away. Of course it's too early to say if it will be as good. But they way the Chinese are progressing, it should be on par.

I am simply amazed at your ease of giving estimation on some subject of which you have very little information.

 

[Norge Stronk]

And people here work their a$$es off to get a title by portraying what they are actually not.

A truly sad state of affairs. But it's easy to identify and brush off those people for the frauds they are. Anyone remember that Bangladeshi Major guy? I'm the one who exposed his crap for what it was and dumped his "Professional" aspirations down the drain where they belonged.

Those that are knowledgeable will make themselves known without needing to do the whole self-presenting new members do when trying to gain the "Pro" title by claiming to be this, that and everything else. Those with industry work or military experience will willingly share their expertise, experiences or knowledge when they can, and avoid doing so when they know they are out of their element.

And once an undeserving member has the title, if given, they need to maintain a standard they can't because they don't meet it. As they don't meet the unwritten standard put on titled members by PDFs rank and file of being a cut above the rest. It cheapens the title system and we see it treated with scorn and ridicule rather then respect or reverence. People don't chase TTA titles, they mock them.

Hunting a title they don't meet the criteria for only hurt them in the end as it places a great big beacon on their ignorance for the whole forum to see plainly; like a lighthouse through the fog.

While I didn't have an issue maintaining a qualitative approach to posting on PDF, I just didn't care for the title or title system in general, so I'm none to interested in pursuing any special treatment again. Too much hassle and I'd rather not be held to a higher account or level of quality then anyone else when I'm here to mainly post pictures and troll, not provide the same in-depth analysis I once did.

Though it is indeed sad that you don't pimp @Freyja's pastries. Drum up some business girl.

I would but the final line of your second paragraph sums up my apathy towards advertising for an audience that doesn't live in Norway, and probably couldn't even locate it on the map.

I do some word of mouth at work and around Oslo (where I work), but little on the internet since @Freyja isn't selling products that are easily deliverable through internet services anyway.

 

[randomradio]

I am simply amazed at your ease of giving estimation on some subject of which you have very little information.

These are not estimations, there is actual information available. Some information has been revealed at the lowest levels, but not ready for print yet.

Even if you compare using available information, the PAK FA is flying with a far more advanced engine than what's on the J-20. The Stage 1's engine is 80% different in build compared to the AL-31F. The J-20's engine is still the same as the one on the J-10. The PAK FA's 117 is said to be lighter than the AL-31F and about 25% more efficient. The J-20 with its main engine is still far away, and it will not be anywhere near the PAK FA's second stage engine which will become available in 2018-19. The second stage engines are said to be 15% more efficient than the 117. That's a lot of catching up to do for China.

With better engines that deliver more electrical power, you can get more out of your avionics.

The very fact that I said the J-20 may mature around the same time as the FGFA gives China the benefit of the doubt, that the Chinese will be able to match the Russians in every way by 2025.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

If you're going to do it, do it right. The E/A-18G was the wrong replacement for an aircraft that didn't need one. The MKI or J-XX variants are great multi-role platforms, but they've nothing on a platform like the EA-6B. And if you're going to make a carrier-based electronic support platform, this is the way to go.

Greater range, payload, defensive capabilities and fuel economy versus the E/A-18G... retired in 2015 and they shouldn't have been. Don't make the mistake of making a half-*ssed platform like the J-XX or Growler.

They were old (last production unit 1991) and maintenance cost were booming due to that.

 

[halloweene]

Is Swedish not Norwegian.

Msphere?

Good for him.

With the way he hawks the Rafale I'm sure everything is obsolete against it in his mind.

Cool down, take a min to look at his CV (public). As an engineer, it should "talk" to you.

With better engines that deliver more electrical power, you can get more out of your avionics.

Nice to see some people remind this often untoldaspect.


Source: https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ssions-thread-2.351407/page-353#ixzz4Km9S6BYj

 

[BON PLAN]

Frero, j'ai eu une notification que tu m'a mentionné? mais je vois rien ici.
Huh.....Je fais des rêves où tout va bien?

Tu t'es pris une cuite ?

Compared to current missile ASMP, the ASMPA would offer a greater range (500 to 600 km) and a greater diversity of trajectories, including final penetrations maneuvers at very low altitude. This missile, the successor to the ASMP carried by the Mirage 2000N and Super Etendard Modernized (SEM), is equipped with the new airborne nuclear warhead (TNA) with a power of 300 kilotons. With an estimated range of 500 kilometers at high-altitude, ASMPA is powered by a ramjet, which gives it a higher speed of around Mach 3. Capable of flying very low, it has penetration capacity and increased accuracy compared to its predecessor. This missile is implemented by the Mirage 2000N, Rafale Air and Navy Rafale.

And this could make our Mirage fleet even more deadlier . But why only 54 bought by France? These missiles can be used for conventional missions at large scale. Stand alone range 500-600 km with 300 kg war heads at Mach 3

Only 54 ASMP A were made because it's mainly a weapon of gesticulation. To show your determination (before firing).
A SLBM missile fired by a sub is shown only ... too late.

In France ASMP is called a pre strategic weapon.
Imagine a rogue country making war actions against France, we could imagine firing one ASMP A on high altitude, to create an EMP wave, or firing it on a buried nuclear secret research center....
If you use a SLBM, it's another beast..... with 6 to 10 nuclear warheads.

54 is far enough !

why so much? We make brahmos at 3 million.

Just an idea :
India may developp a smaller Brahmos so it can be fitted to Rafale.
Put a nuclear warhead on these Brahmos mini, and.... you have your own pre strategic weapon !

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

The J-20 will mature around the same time as the FGFA will. So it's pretty far away. Of course it's too early to say if it will be as good. But they way the Chinese are progressing, it should be on par.

http://rostec.ru/en/research/tecnology/4517645



Our lowest numbers will be between 2018 and 2022. After 2022, we will be in a better position because we will be inducting dozens of aircraft a year.

If the LSA works out, then we will have a surplus.



Probably 2030 for the As and Bs and 2050 for the Cs and Ds.

How do u know when the J-20 will 'mature' when as of 2016, she's already in Low Rate Production and the first aircraft has already been handed over to its air force(if being deem satisfactory enough to be inducted to its air force is not considered being 'matured'), while the PMF(FGFA) is still 'somewhere in the pipes'- just as it has been for years.