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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

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We have to wait for strategic partnership to be unveiled by DM MP properly. The Make In India is there surely. But formally that will be announced by next year march.

The numbers are too huge bcz its both IAF and IN combined. As i said earlier the Rafales in India over the time will cost at an average of around Rs 540 Crs fully loaded with weapons when its made from Indian plant. So no one will like to miss that opportunity there, unless someone betters this deal with more benefits



Even though mind says its Euro, i hope as per my heart it turns out $
Euro 7.25 Bn - Mind
$7.25 Bn - heart
:enjoy:

Wow If its costs around 540 Cr for fully loaded ( that's a steal). Even the Su MKI flyaway costing around 420 Cr.
(http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...velopment-is-mere-purchase/article8199677.ece ) - of-course some part of it is due to HAL productivity issues, also latest lot is expected to cost around 500 Cr
(http://defence-blog.com/news/indian-air-force-to-buy-40-more-su-30mki-fighters.html).
Keeping my fingers crossed and touch wood :cheers:
And Definitely Rafale is atleast .5 generation ahead of MKI
 
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If the deal is signed as per this news report then its going to be a major push to Indo-French defense and strategic relationship to a new high level, hopefully when contract is signed there is some reference about MII angle too
 
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Rafale deal at final clearance level, may get go ahead soon
By Manu Pubby, ET Bureau | Sep 08, 2016, 06.31 AM IST

NEW DELHI: It's going to be a big test for Indo-French relations as the Rafale fighter jet deal has reached the final clearance level after protracted negotiations. The price of the combat aircraft has come down to 7.25 billion and Paris is offering cutting-edge technology, including jet engine knowhow, to India.

Sources told ET the deal for 36 fighter aircraft could be cleared as early as the next meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), with the defence ministry completing all formalities and negotiations with the French side.

A decision on the deal is critical for France that has suffered a setback with the leak of sensitive documents of the Scorpene submarine project, currently being executed in Mumbai.

Also, French firms have come under the scanner for donations to an NGO operated by a Delhi-based consultant. The fighter jet deal, which was first announced during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's Paris trip in April 2015, has been stuck for over a year on pricing and offset issues. The final terms of contract are currently being vetted by the Prime Minister's Office (PMO).

Sources said the issues raised by the PMO, after a scrutiny of documents, have been clarified by the defence ministry. "Unless there are any unforeseen complications, the jet fighter contract should happen soon. The price has been substantially lowered after several rounds of tough negotiations," an official aware of the developments told ET.

As part of the deal, France will invest 50 per cent of the value of the deal in the domestic defence and aviation sectors as an offset clause. France has offered 16 critical technologies to India as part of the deal.

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These technologies, which would be valued as part of the offset package, would be shared with the Defence Research and Development Organisation. The French side has also expressed its willingness to share technology and invest 1-billion to revive India's combat jet engine project, Kaveri. The plan is to develop an upgraded gas turbine to power indigenous Tejas fighters by 2020.

The French side will also assist Indian private industry in setting up a global supply chain as part of the offset plan. Among other projects, French firm Dassault is likely to set up a line in India with a private partner to manufacture major structural parts for its Falcon executive jet aircraft.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-ahead-soon/articleshow/54158710.cms?from=mdr

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Enjoy all.. All the thread followers know whats written in this article is there in this sticky for so so long time
View attachment 332297

I said about CCS point time and again here..

Wait for the CCS, as i said here verbal invitations are given already
View attachment 332298

Enjoy..

All the tech sharing offsets are in 36 aircraft purchase itself or linked to make in India crafts ?

What I mean is, are we going to get more again with make in India deal ?
 
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Any idea when is the next CCS meet?

And in the report somewhere it said to be signed there on. But it needs French delegates to come here right ?
 
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All the tech sharing offsets are in 36 aircraft purchase itself or linked to make in India crafts ?

What I mean is, are we going to get more again with make in India deal ?

Make in India deal is separate . Here all offsets are under the present 36 order. There will be an IGA where implicitly the manufacturing line under MII will be mentioned and conditionals as well.
 
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Any idea when is the next CCS meet?

And in the report somewhere it said to be signed there on. But it needs French delegates to come here right ?
Prez Hollande said that he will work out a suitable date for the meet to formally sign as and when India formally sends the invitation out and said to have assured that he will be there for India France friendship moment.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ssions-thread-2.351407/page-310#ixzz4JftfYbB7
 
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"16 critical technologies" I wonder what they are one is engine tech and other might be related to sub's but others what are they. Now I just hope not all of these 16 are related to the engine/aircraft design. @PARIKRAMA I know you can shed some light on this, really exciting on these 16 tech's.

Now about the M88 is there any change of any western IP in it at all?

If UK was out of the EU it would be a good thing for India in the way France is a good thing for India. Dealing with EU as a whole is very problematic and much similar to dealing with US
 
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"16 critical technologies" I wonder what they are one is engine tech and other might be related to sub's but others what are they. Now I just hope not all of these 16 are related to the engine/aircraft design. @PARIKRAMA I know you can shed some light on this, really exciting on these 16 tech's.

Now about the M88 is there any change of any western IP in it at all?

If UK was out of the EU it would be a good thing for India in the way France is a good thing for India. Dealing with EU as a whole is very problematic and much similar to dealing with US

Don't live in the illusion brother -- The Engine tech. have the right of the respective OEMs who spend lot of money acquiring it , and selling them is the means they earn the profit, and no way any OEM is gonna gave it to India. In short we have to acquire it ourself by failing, trying, failing, trying again and again.

Atleast we have a working Engine Kaveri, and what is needed is the Supersonic flight testing in the MIG-29 airframe to certify it. Since it is flat rated, so the specs might look inferior on paper, but in reality not too far, and BTW the original target for the Kaveri have been meet, it is the new requirement where we are failing, and when talking about the technologies e.g SCB Single Crystal Blade tech. who says we don't have, we have but not of the lattest generation. There are few tech. which we don't have at all such as thermal barrier coating for the hot sections, and the mettalurgical composition to sustain its rigidity till 1700 degree, at present we are at 1400 degree Celsius.
 
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Don't live in the illusion brother .

That I already know in fact the core of the engine is the red tape part of the engine. But here the paths deviate whereas the Americans wont share any details what so ever there is a change that the French might. These core details can help the Kabini core to come to light instead of using M88 core with the Kaveri. French are obviously willing to share more than American's, any info on the core would be pretty useful.

The part about Single Crystal Blade is correct India does make those but the fact remains they have failed with Kaveri because on lower tolerance thus we need them and a bit of other things to increase the compression ration.
 
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An extract of what I post on another forum in february 2013
To make a good turbofan is not science it's art! Because with maths you cannot compute the optimum, you just be able to verify the perf of a turbofan that you want to build. The equations are not reversibles. So somebody have to design the turbofan with intuition and verify if the perfs are good enough, then modify a little and verify. You need a kind of wizard and it is very rare to have a good wizard. France have maximum 3, GB the same, US 10, Russia 0, China 0, India 0.
And this in September 2013
It's not exactly that. France would certaily agree to share its knowledge as part of a strategic alliance, and I think that these stategic alliance will come with the Rafale contract. The problem is that it's not easy!
Such "wizard" people emerge as a result of all an industry, you cannot decide that you need one more and train a people for him to become efficient. And the ressource is so limited that we don't want to give our expert. It is why we have proposed to use the hot part of M88 inside Kaveri (with adaptation) it is possible because it already exist a M88 version at 90 kN. But India seems to want to design itself the core, so a "wizard" people is needed but non available. This kind of people emerge when you start with simple system and evolve to more complex, but India want to make at first the more complex possible.
I think a french "wizard" will certainly be available for you to improve your Kaveri in the context of strategic alliance, but he will remain French! If you want your own "wizard" he have to emerge from your engine industry.
 
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