Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Grevion]

Finally!! They are coming.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

thats why i said part finance bcz surely other stake holders would be involved..

Good finally its done.. so pic sir, any chance you coming in as consultant in the Indian venture.. you can try surely.. a man of your caliber can change our Aerospace segment,,

My last work was to be consultant for the Galileo program, but I'm too old now to continue. Can you imagine that Trappier was my intern?

 

[Taygibay]

@Spectre Yes, I had seen that and found it comical.

I'm still the original though, have been using the name since before 2010
whereas Microsoft started theirs a month back : https://www.tay.ai

And it seems she's a girl too judging by her profile pic,

​

Plus, I'm not racist, Tay.

P.S.

My last work was to be consultant for the Galileo program

Pôvre petiot, so he already knows about Indian slow programs!

 

[Spectre]

My last work was to be consultant for the Galileo program, but I'm too old now to continue. Can you imagine that Trappier was my intern?

@Spectre Yes, I had seen that and found it comical.

I'm still the original though, have been using the name since before 2010
whereas Microsoft started theirs a month back : https://www.tay.ai

And it seems she's a girl too judging by her profile pic,

View attachment 300607
​

Plus, I'm not racist, Tay.

Not biting it, you gotta take the turing's test otherwise I am sending

P.S. Blade runner pic if you miss the reference

 

[BON PLAN]

9 billion USD divided by 36 aircrafts = Very expensive Item.

India still got robbed.

Bad looser !

 

[#hydra#]

CONGRATULATIONS..

i said what i could after getting to know when i posted in the sticky..

i gave the hint on tuesday

View attachment 300548
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-192#post-8237913

it was good nobody picked it up too much then


and then
View attachment 300547

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-193#post-8242769

its in line with what i earlier said about less than Euro 8bn or less than Rs 60000 crs.. i was hoping for 56000 crs but i am still fine with 59000 crs..

potential for jets in merignac line is more like 100 and indian line is 300.. unless something changes drastically IAF+IN together will operate 400 rafales mostly the Rafale of F3R2 and NG designations..

Its gonna be a quasi 5th Gen and will provide us with a unmatched capability...

so its time for

ps: time for multiple green ticks and positive ratings for me!!!

How is it possible for IN to have an american EMALS &non us fighter jet,rumors says US won't sell us EMALS with out f35/f18.

 

[Abingdonboy]

How is it possible for IN to have an american EMALS &non us fighter jet,rumors says US won't sell us EMALS with out f35/f18.

That's a bit of a myth. The S-70B and E-2D deals will compensate the Americans (to a degree) but they aren't going to dictate to India what fighter it flies off its own home built carrier. Either way, EMALS is a long long way away, I don't think it will be present on the IAC-2 at this point.

Now the Rafale deal has gone through it is a certainty the IN is going for the Rafale-M, Boeing haven't even made a presentation to the IN since 2012, Dassault have made a number of them in the last 18 months. The Americans had their chance, India was fair and allowed them to make their case even after being ejected from the MMRCA the first time around and they came back but weren't even offering a fraction of what Dassualt were and their offer was simply unpalatable to India so no dice.

 

[BON PLAN]

I remember the initial mrca competition was around 11 billion USD for 126 planes. How did to balloon into 7.8 billion Euros for 36?

This is far too pricey and with the arrival of 5th gen fighters in the next few years how can this deal be justified?

7.8 billion could kick start a national jet engine plan or an indigenous 5th gen project.

No official datas for these initial 11 billion USD. Just tabloids news.

There is a difference between exorbitant and expensive.

Expensive can be justified but exorbitant is getting ripped off.

Remember the price tag charged by the French to upgrade 24 mirage fighters? They charged 2.4 billion USD.

What 24 Mirage ? Your datas are wrong I'm afraid.

 

[Su-11]

nah.. fan boy is very small..

i make a living making deals for dassault...

i am an agent..an arms dealer..i am employed by dassault..

ya deal is bad.. but then why should i care.. i am getting a hefty commission!!!

Nah, it requires a certain amount of caliber to be an arms dealer. I'll just stick with "Ohh look at the prueeetty plane. I'm glad my country has bought it. Now I can go to pakistani forum and brag about it to the pakistanis, while I just close my nose with a handkerchief when I pass by the slum on my way to college tomorrow" type.

 

[Nilgiri]

That's a bit of a myth. The S-70B and E-2D deals will compensate the Americans (to a degree) but they aren't going to dictate to India what fighter it flies off its own home built carrier. Either way, EMALS is a long long way away, I don't think it will be present on the IAC-2 at this point.

Now the Rafale deal has gone through it is a certainty the IN is going for the Rafale-M, Boeing haven't even made a presentation to the IN since 2012, Dassault have made a number of them in the last 18 months. The Americans had their chance, India was fair and allowed them to make their case even after being ejected from the MMRCA the first time around and they came back but weren't even offering a fraction of what Dassualt were and their offer was simply unpalatable to India so no dice.

Buddy, thanks for the tag firstly.

Second, some TOIlet articles have been loudly braying there is absolutely no make in India component in these 36 that are soon to be signed formally. I was under the impression that there is (through offsets to Indian companies etc.).

Can you tell me roughly how much % you think/expect of the total value of this first tranche to be directed "back" to India?

Also does this deal cover the setting up of any components of a future production line within India (i.e capex, ToT external to direct aircraft material - jigs, tooling etc..)...or will that be in a future deal.

What is the final number of Rafales that you foresee + potential timeframe.

All these questions are directed to @PARIKRAMA et al. too.

 

[Masterhunter]

Buddy, thanks for the tag firstly.

Second, some TOIlet articles have been loudly braying there is absolutely no make in India component in these 36 that are soon to be signed formally. I was under the impression that there is (through offsets to Indian companies etc.).

Can you tell me roughly how much % you think/expect of the total value of this first tranche to be directed "back" to India?

Also does this deal cover the setting up of any components of a future production line within India (i.e capex, ToT external to direct aircraft material - jigs, tooling etc..)...or will that be in a future deal.

What is the final number of Rafales that you foresee + potential timeframe.

All these questions are directed to @PARIKRAMA et al. too.

The deal had 50% offset... So expect about 4.4 billion dollar investment back into India....

And finally a saga ended.. And if timelines are true..18 months... First rafale will be flying in IAF in early 2018... This means dassult was confident of Indian order .... Or else it would have taken 30-36 months to deliver first plane...
If early 2018 is first plane...we may get all 36 by 2020-21.. After which MII line will be functional....
Good day today ...

Also if 18 rafale M is coming to India ... As follow on... They will come only in 2022-23.. And two years for ITBF (as someone said)... So we are looking for 2025 for these 18 to be integrated on A carrier...
Don't u think if IAC-1 follow on is ordered (with 10-15% increase in tonnage)... It will also be out for sea trials in 2025... As it will take about 7-8 yrs if ordered and work starts in 2017..
@PARIKRAMA @Ankit Kumar 002 @Picdelamirand-oil @randomradio @Abingdonboy

 

[PARIKRAMA]

i

Buddy, thanks for the tag firstly.

Second, some TOIlet articles have been loudly braying there is absolutely no make in India component in these 36 that are soon to be signed formally. I was under the impression that there is (through offsets to Indian companies etc.).

Can you tell me roughly how much % you think/expect of the total value of this first tranche to be directed "back" to India?

Also does this deal cover the setting up of any components of a future production line within India (i.e capex, ToT external to direct aircraft material - jigs, tooling etc..)...or will that be in a future deal.

What is the final number of Rafales that you foresee + potential timeframe.

All these questions are directed to @PARIKRAMA et al. too.

Offsets are there .. 50%.. That's where manufacturing line comes in..

Tech share is also there.. Tranche 1 is 90..all in all 5 tranches will come ..

There will be more orders for Merignac line ..

Expectations are almost 300 jets plus as users are both IAF and IN

with tranche1 90 and flyaway 36 it's now 126 as first step..

Expect first only 36 signature followed by MII partner announcement and MII deal sign in coming months..
..

 

[v9s]

Bhai you are fighting a lost battle here, it is of no use. Plus you are from a nation which asks for a subsidies for fighter jet , can't afford to fight internal terrorism on your own. If you are following a proper news & articles then you must also know that your nation literary begs for assistance from USA every year. And we don't ask for such financial assistance that is called Sovereignty, which your entire population has no idea about.

Ontopic: Can somebody plz explain who will be the final authority to sign the deal after 3-4 weeks ? Is there any meeting arranged, BTW Nicolas Sarkozy is in Delhi, may be he has got something to do with the deal..

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...t-of-US-economic-aid/articleshow/48093123.cms

kekekekkekekekke

The problem is not India's defence spending but their mindset, India is now suddenly pulling away and they have no ability to keep up with being entirely beholden to the IMF so they have started crying "arms race arms race".

So it's kosher when you do it. But when Pakistan makes the same noise, it isn't?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Nah, it requires a certain amount of caliber to be an arms dealer. I'll just stick with "Ohh look at the prueeetty plane. I'm glad my country has bought it. Now I can go to pakistani forum and brag about it to the pakistanis, while I just close my nose with a handkerchief when I pass by the slum on my way to college tomorrow" type.

Oh nice you told the location of my next swachh bharat mission..

Ya will clean the slum of the smell and see how I can contribute in their development of life and their living conditions..

So that in future I don't need to close the nose and put on a handkerchief..

Ps- you can also suggest where I can keep the poster of my pretty plane.. So that everyday when I wake up, I could see it, feel good and start my day..

May be a sticky here also in PDF.. So that folks like you can see and burn that ppl like me who are 'fanboy' are happy and are 'bragging' ..

 

[Nilgiri]

The deal had 50% offset... So expect about 4.4 billion dollar investment back into India....

And finally a saga ended.. And if timelines are true..18 months... First rafale will be flying in IAF in early 2018... This means dassult was confident of Indian order .... Or else it would have taken 30-36 months to deliver first plane...
If early 2018 is first plane...we may get all 36 by 2020-21.. After which MII line will be functional....
Good day today ...

Also if 18 rafale M is coming to India ... As follow on... They will come only in 2022-23.. And two years for ITBF (as someone said)... So we are looking for 2025 for these 18 to be integrated on A carrier...
Don't u think if IAC-1 follow on is ordered (with 10-15% increase in tonnage)... It will also be out for sea trials in 2025... As it will take about 7-8 yrs if ordered and work starts in 2017..
@PARIKRAMA @Ankit Kumar 002 @Picdelamirand-oil @randomradio @Abingdonboy

I sincerely hope that this is the last major fighter acquisition from overseas (arguably along with FGFA). With the ToT and greater inclusion of private players + size of Indian economy and local margins+scales available, there should be no more excuse in future to pay foreign margins. If India is to be a great power, she has to develop + manufacture in house for the major number airframes of all major roles she requires.