Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[dray]

Is Rafale the last good plane on earth? Can't we really buy something else at a reasonable price? It's not that our enemies are using alien tech. The price France is quoting was the original price of the deal for 126 jets!

That's why we need to focus more on our own programs..

 

[Lonely Hermit]

Waste?
How exactly?
Are you doubting rafale capabilities?

and what is this super duper capability that warrants such a high cost ?

they're not asking us stright away due to the reason... the reason of investing 50% offset is pushing them to hike the price. no one is going to invest back 50%,, what do the profit they get??? so they\d to hike the price of the jets..

They are not donating 50% they will be investing in a economy which will grow @ 7 to 8 % for the next decade . An RTI needs to be filed, Indian tax payer cannot be taken for a ride like this.

In another few months you will come to know about official announcement of MII under which total birds made in India will be close to 225+ equaling FrAF. On top price assumed is closer to in the bracket of Rs 500-600 Crs under MII with orders over time and localisation aspect.

Are you out of your mind you want 200 of these white elephant. That is capital expenditure of excess of 50+ billion dollar . Does IAF has enough money to pay for all these aircraft in their inventory ?

 

[kaykay]

and what is this super duper capability that warrants such a high cost ?


They are not donating 50% they will be investing in a economy which will grow @ 7 to 8 % for the next decade . An RTI needs to be filed, Indian tax payer cannot be taken for a ride like this.

Gone are the days of cheap fighters if you buy. Either build own or pay a hefty price. Even MKIs are costing now $100 million/unit without weapons and life cycle cost( which will touch more than 200 million over life time i.e roughly same as Rafale). Hell we are paying $4 Billion USD just to upgrade T-50 to FGFA( you can guess the cost of aircraft though lol) with no offset ofcourse.

 

[Lonely Hermit]

Gone are the days of cheap fighters if you buy. Either build own or pay a hefty price. Even MKIs are costing now $100 million/unit without weapons and life cycle cost( which will touch more than 200 million over life time i.e roughly same as Rafale). Hell we are paying $4 Billion USD just to upgrade T-50 to FGFA( you can guess the cost of aircraft though lol) with no offset ofcourse.

Source for this 100 million $ claim, Manohar Parrikar has already stated recently it cost $56 million to manufacture su 30mki in India.
""“The Sukhoi 30 choice is always there. What I mean to say is: upgrade the Sukhoi 30, make it more capable,” said India’s Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar.

The Su-30MKI fighter was specially developed for India by Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau and 200 aircraft has already entered IAF service as of August 2014.

The minister also made it clear that the IAF is concerned with the fighter costs. “It is not always… go and purchase it. A cost effective purchase is also important,” he said.

The average cost of a Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter jet is approximately $56 million, whereas France’s Rafale fighter varies from €64 million to €90 million ($75-$106 million).""
https://www.rt.com/news/222131-rafale-deal-under-question/
@MilSpec sir your view on this is the Indian tax payer being taken for a ride by this deal ?

 

[kaykay]

Source for this 100 million $ claim, Manohar Parrikar has already stated recently it cost $56 million to manufacture su 30mki in India.
""“The Sukhoi 30 choice is always there. What I mean to say is: upgrade the Sukhoi 30, make it more capable,” said India’s Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar.

The Su-30MKI fighter was specially developed for India by Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau and 200 aircraft has already entered IAF service as of August 2014.

The minister also made it clear that the IAF is concerned with the fighter costs. “It is not always… go and purchase it. A cost effective purchase is also important,” he said.

The average cost of a Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter jet is approximately $56 million, whereas France’s Rafale fighter varies from €64 million to €90 million ($75-$106 million).""
https://www.rt.com/news/222131-rafale-deal-under-question/
@MilSpec sir your view on this is the Indian tax payer being taken for a ride by this deal ?

Well he said 75-100 million USD/ Rafale too but is it? India bought last batch of 42 Su-30MKIs in excess of 4 billion USD.
http://www.asian-defence.net/2010/08/russias-sale-of-su-30mki-fighters-in.html?m=1

 

[cerberus]

Source for this 100 million $ claim, Manohar Parrikar has already stated recently it cost $56 million to manufacture su 30mki in India.
""“The Sukhoi 30 choice is always there. What I mean to say is: upgrade the Sukhoi 30, make it more capable,” said India’s Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar.

The Su-30MKI fighter was specially developed for India by Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau and 200 aircraft has already entered IAF service as of August 2014.

The minister also made it clear that the IAF is concerned with the fighter costs. “It is not always… go and purchase it. A cost effective purchase is also important,” he said.

The average cost of a Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter jet is approximately $56 million, whereas France’s Rafale fighter varies from €64 million to €90 million ($75-$106 million).""
https://www.rt.com/news/222131-rafale-deal-under-question/
@MilSpec sir your view on this is the Indian tax payer being taken for a ride by this deal ?

Just Do the Technical Comparison of these Jets You will Get Answer Also
Compare the Serviceability Rate.and Maintenance Cost

 

[45'22']

Source for this 100 million $ claim, Manohar Parrikar has already stated recently it cost $56 million to manufacture su 30mki in India.
""“The Sukhoi 30 choice is always there. What I mean to say is: upgrade the Sukhoi 30, make it more capable,” said India’s Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar.

The Su-30MKI fighter was specially developed for India by Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau and 200 aircraft has already entered IAF service as of August 2014.

The minister also made it clear that the IAF is concerned with the fighter costs. “It is not always… go and purchase it. A cost effective purchase is also important,” he said.

The average cost of a Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter jet is approximately $56 million, whereas France’s Rafale fighter varies from €64 million to €90 million ($75-$106 million).""
https://www.rt.com/news/222131-rafale-deal-under-question/
@MilSpec sir your view on this is the Indian tax payer being taken for a ride by this deal ?

Even i m unsure about the price
Digged up some articles and found this one
http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/fighterplanes/texts/articles/su-30mkicost.html

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy how much does it actually costs us ...the mki's ?

 

[cerberus]

Well he said 75-100 million USD/ Rafale too but is it? India bought last batch of 42 Su-30MKIs in excess of 4 billion USD.
http://www.asian-defence.net/2010/08/russias-sale-of-su-30mki-fighters-in.html?m=1

Also the Technical comparison BTW two jets If Bought Latest Rafale with Integrated AESA ,Sensor Fusion Spectra and Weapons Include MICA and Hammer And Meteor Plus the Low RCS Factor

 

[kaykay]

Even i m unsure about the price
Digged up some articles and found this one
http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/fighterplanes/texts/articles/su-30mkicost.html

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy how much does it actually costs us ...the mki's ?

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-aircraft-deals-with-friend-russia-costing-dear-1424437

 

[Lonely Hermit]

Well he said 75-100 million USD/ Rafale too but is it? India bought last batch of 42 Su-30MKIs in excess of 4 billion USD.
http://www.asian-defence.net/2010/08/russias-sale-of-su-30mki-fighters-in.html?m=1

The defense minister categorically stated the cost is 56million $, and looking at the price that french are quoting it sound like they are asking excess of 100 m $. Also infrastructure for su 30 are already in place so spares are easily available.

 

[45'22']

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-aircraft-deals-with-friend-russia-costing-dear-1424437

This came in 2012 and quotes a diff price

http://m.sputniknews.com/business/20121224/178368313.html

I dont know whether the source is reliable or not?

 

[kaykay]

The defense minister categorically stated the cost is 56million $, and looking the price that french are quoting it sound they are asking excess of 100 m $. Also infrastructure for su 30 are already in place so spares are easily available.

Sir despite all these infrastructure and 'easily available spares', we are trying hard for MKIs to be available enough (70-75%) which they are not currently ( hopefully will be). While here french are ensuring 90% availability rate for Rafales. Yes price is on the upper side and I agree on that but considering maintenance cost and availability rate, It won't be a bad bet in long term.
PS: For me a 54 Rafale fleet is enough and I am no fan of 200-300 Rafales as that seems impractical for now.

 

[Lonely Hermit]

Also the Technical comparison BTW two jets If Bought Latest Rafale with Integrated AESA ,Sensor Fusion Spectra and Weapons Include MICA and Hammer And Meteor Plus the Low RCS Factor

Most of these can easily be upgraded in su 30 and lca at a much cheaper rate.
What ever be the case I as taxpayer hope that we never buy the damn thing.

 

[Tshering22]

Even $7 billion is way too much!

WTF are they selling us? F-22s?

Rafales are good but they are costing more than a 5th generation jet per unit price.

What's wrong with Dassault!?

 

[cerberus]

Sir despite all these infrastructure and 'easily available spares', we are trying hard for MKIs to be available enough (70-75%) which they are not currently ( hopefully will be). While here french are ensuring 90% availability rate for Rafales. Yes price is on the upper side and I agree on that but considering maintenance cost and availability rate, It won't be a bad bet in long term.
PS: For me a 54 Rafale fleet is enough and I am no fan of 200-300 Rafales as that seems impractical for now.

Both Fighter Are Different League All Together.Well After IAF Navy is Interested in Rafale M Variant For IAC-1,IAC-2 Requirement
http://thediplomat.com/2016/01/indi...ghter-jets-for-navys-newest-aircraft-carrier/

Most of these are can easily be upgraded in su 30 and lca at a much cheaper rate.
What ever be the case I as taxpayer hope that we never buy the damn thing.

Who Told You that It Will Cost Us Popping 12 Billion $ For MKI MLU that Price Quoted Few Years back
http://cassindia.com/inner_page.php?id=53&&task=military
LCA is Far From Replacing Rafale which Omni-role Fighter

MKI is Never Designed For SEAD/DEAD Mission Look at Serviceability Rate Difference Engine Malfunction Rate of Russians Also PLAAF Access to Similar Accessories

Rafale is on other Hand is Superior Platform in terms of Both Capabilities and Serviceability
French are Also agreed on 50 % Offset comes in New DPP 2016

Even $7 billion is way too much!

WTF are they selling us? F-22s?

Rafales are good but they are costing more than a 5th generation jet per unit price.

What's wrong with Dassault!?

Operating cost For F-22 is almost 700 million $ You Know This Fact
So what’s the cost? As little as $137 million per jet and as much as $678 million, depending on how and what you count.
http://www.wired.com/2011/12/f-22-real-cost/