Dalai Lama: ‘I Am a Son of India’

[barcelona]

Yeah you're probably right but still it stands as an exceptional instance.

I think u have a notion of Indians not liking chinese but the fact of the matter is regular Indian looks at China with Admiration In my growing up years no body talked abt. India china war but Pakistan yes

Infact very lil is knwn to an avg. Indian abt this war n its only known that India lost that war n Nehru was stabbed in the back (usual rehtoric it must be also there on your side regardin japs)

With boom of news channels these scenario are presented like china helping pakistan to attack India thoe they r not the norm but exceptional but they do exist
As fight create mullah n interest its human psycology off topic

With olympics 2008 Indian started lookin at chinese as role model to emulate may be not first on list but yes in top 3

And yes Indian think Chinese were influnced a lot by Indian culture as told to me by my history book vist of hieun tsan n fa han r mentioned

I wud like to knw wat u thought abt Indians BEFORE joinin this forum

 

[Areesh]

Dalai Lama: ‘I Am a Son of India

Yeah we know India is your father but the father and son relationship of this kind isn't much appreciated in our region.

 

[barcelona]

Yeah we know India is your father but the father and son relationship of this kind isn't much appreciated in our region.

yOU TALKIN IN THE SAME TONE AS SUNNY DEOL IN GADDAR KINDLY heed modraters voice n stp callin names to spritual leader of a religion

 

[CardSharp]

I think u have a notion of Indians not liking chinese but the fact of the matter is regular Indian looks at China with Admiration In my growing up years no body talked abt. India china war but Pakistan yes

Infact very lil is knwn to an avg. Indian abt this war n its only known that India lost that war n Nehru was stabbed in the back (usual rehtoric it must be also there on your side regardin japs)

With boom of news channels these scenario are presented like china helping pakistan to attack India thoe they r not the norm but exceptional but they do exist
As fight create mullah n interest its human psycology off topic

With olympics 2008 Indian started lookin at chinese as role model to emulate may be not first on list but yes in top 3

And yes Indian think Chinese were influnced a lot by Indian culture as told to me by my history book vist of hieun tsan n fa han r mentioned

I wud like to knw wat u thought abt Indians BEFORE joinin this forum

I have no opinions about anyone before I speak with them, forming individual perceptions based on general sentiments of a country would be a gross over-simplification, and I try to remind myself always of that but I was unaware of how much history there was between the countries before I came to PDF.

 

[hembo]

The site is behaving a little weird.. I'm reposting my earlier post.

I had recently saw an brief interview of DL with a british travel journalist for BBC's documentary on Himalayan places and people. He does not come across as a intelectual (politically or otherwise) person which was quite evident by the awekward pauses while tackling uncomfortable questions followed by lame attempts on humour. He comes across as any other religious priest of present times, but definitrly not as the GOD KING, which by the way is a bullcrap concept IMHO.

Tibbet was a primitive and isolated place back then (and till recent years), with sparse populated areas separated by really long and difficult distance. People were living off Yak and Yak predominantly and only thing holding them together was religion. Now, bhutan, with similar conditions, is a positive example where "Gross Domestic Happiness" is much more important domestic policy then "Gross Domestic Products". However, Tibbet is with China now and is a very important strategic part of China. India recognizes it so and so does DL. So it has to allow the chinese developmental philosophies in. IMHO, china is doing quite ok in the recent years in bringing part of Tibbet to face the modern world outside. In any case, as an Indian, its their cup of tea now.

Back in '59, when DL and co. came asylum seeking, I really fail to understand the mentality of JL Nehru. Giving them short term asylum as a religious leader could still be defended, albeit not very strongly. In one side, Nehru was shouting "Hindi-Chini Bhai Bhai" (Indians and chinese were brothers), and on the other hand he dared giving POLITICAL asylum to a then separatist. Allowing them to come up with a govt in exile was plain stupid. As if he didnot have enough problem in hand while pressing on the forward policy.

What was the net gain from that stupid action. Excuse me people who thinks of DL as a trump card against China. Well in reality it's not.

The net result was to push China towards a blind friendship with Pakistan, giving them nuclear tech, enriched nuclear fuel, intelligence and what not. All in a one way trade.

Things would have been a lot different but for the stupidity of one person. Be it China policy or Kashmir policy, he had left a bad legacy for us to carry on enmity with both China and Pakistan, while in actual case, there should not have been none. It is a different matter that Nehru's doctrine towards China and Pakistan should have been entirely oposite.

As far as DL is considered, now its a catch 22 situation. We can only wait till he goes his natural way and then dismantle the Tibbetan govt in exile. It would be a tremendous CBM from us towards China. We all know, neither India nor China can afford even a big scale skirmish now if with want to continue towards the Asian Era. So trump card or not, DL (and for that matter Aksai Sin) are completely useless in the present scenario.

 

[barcelona]

I had recently saw an brief interview of DL with a british travel journalist for BBC's documentary on Himalayan places and people. He does not come across as a intelectual (politically or otherwise) person which was quite evident by the awekward pauses while tackling uncomfortable questions followed by lame attempts on humour. He comes across as any other religious priest of present times, but definitrly not as the GOD KING, which by the way is a bullcrap concept IMHO.

Tibbet was a primitive and isolated place back then (and till recent years), with sparse populated areas separated by really long and difficult distance. People were living off Yak and Yak predominantly and only thing holding them together was religion. Now, bhutan, with similar conditions, is a positive example where "Gross Domestic Happiness" is much more important domestic policy then "Gross Domestic Products". However, Tibbet is with China now and is a very important strategic part of China. India recognizes it so and so does DL. So it has to allow the chinese developmental philosophies in. IMHO, china is doing quite ok in the recent years in bringing part of Tibbet to face the modern world outside. In any case, as an Indian, its their cup of tea now.

Back in '59, when DL and co. came asylum seeking, I really fail to understand the mentality of JL Nehru. Giving them short term asylum as a religious leader could still be defended, albeit not very strongly. In one side, Nehru was shouting "Hindi-Chini Bhai Bhai" (Indians and chinese were brothers), and on the other hand he dared giving POLITICAL asylum to a then separatist. Allowing them to come up with a govt in exile was plain stupid. As if he didnot have enough problem in hand while pressing on the forward policy.

What was the net gain from that stupid action. Excuse me people who thinks of DL as a trump card against China. Well in reality it's not.

The net result was to push China towards a blind friendship with Pakistan, giving them nuclear tech, enriched nuclear fuel, intelligence and what not. All in a one way trade.

Things would have been a lot different but for the stupidity of one person. Be it China policy or Kashmir policy, he had left a bad legacy for us to carry on enmity with both China and Pakistan, while in actual case, there should not have been none. It is a different matter that Nehru's doctrine towards China and Pakistan should have been entirely oposite.

As far as DL is considered, now its a catch 22 situation. We can only wait till he goes his natural way and then dismantle the Tibbetan govt in exile. It would be a tremendous CBM from us towards China. We all know, neither India nor China can afford even a big scale skirmish now if with want to continue towards the Asian Era. So trump card or not, DL (and for that matter Aksai Sin) are completely useless in the present scenario.

Friend i think you are wrong there Nehru at that time was a Statesman of repute he had a gr8 International standing OTOH Mao was considered a pariah

Nehru hosted DL in my view to convey a message to China that India is no push over n mind u he only wanted to convey this as he wanted to avoid any confrontation with China

Nehru's forward policy in that light was continuation of his aggrasive attitude in order for china to blink first i.e. he was tryin to bluff chinese

Nehru thought due to his stature as a statesman he could garner world support for himself n his nation even if Chinese tried to attack So the plannin of Nehru was pretty ok not that bad

Now tell me wat did China gained from that war Aksai Chin was already in its control except for few very minor gains in Aksai Chin n Town of Demchok they withdrew from all there gains in NEFA

they now had a rival of its size may be smaller but nearly equivalent to it try to look from this perspective

 

[barcelona]

I have no opinions about anyone before I speak with them, forming individual perceptions based on general sentiments of a country would be a gross over-simplification, and I try to remind myself always of that but I was unaware of how much history there was between the countries before I came to PDF.

Perceptions are the one's which help n determine our attitude towards something unknown it may take a 180 degree change after interaction but it does help in approaching any new Entity

 

[justanobserver]

I see it more as a hate narrative, that starts with 62 backstabbing, then gets added on by the aid to Pakistan suspicions, then gets added on by the string of pearls fantasy, then the staple visa, then (insert a million and a half little things that gets posted here)

Staple Visa is related to Kashmir (again Pakistan), the only 'pearl' in the 'string of pearls' is Gwadar (in Pakistan)

 

[CardSharp]

Perceptions are the one's which help n determine our attitude towards something unknown it may take a 180 degree change after interaction but it does help in approaching any new Entity

Please understand I hold nothing of India's politics or history against individuals. I am strictly apolitical in my everyday life, since it bores people and when it doesn't bore people, it often turns the atmosphere acrimonious.

Staple Visa is related to Kashmir (again Pakistan), the only 'pearl' in the 'string of pearls' is Gwadar (in Pakistan)

Hey not my invention. I'd be much happier calling it a string with a bead on it.

 

[S3xy B0y]

Yeah, keep playing your inocent game by ignoring DL is head of exile government of tibet eh? it will be like i ask what harm can a "staple visa" do to India.

We provoked you.
Dalai Lama,probably the biggest enemy of China at the individual level said that he was the 'son' of India,we accepted it.
We are honored to have him.

Lets keep provoking each other and lets keep growing.

 

[Pukhtoon]

We provoked you.
Dalai Lama,probably the biggest enemy of China at the individual level said that he was the 'son' of India,we accepted it.
We are honored to have him.

Lets keep provoking each other and lets keep growing.

Keep him for one or two more years his legs are in tomb.Your this card will be expire soon.

 

[hembo]

Friend i think you are wrong there Nehru at that time was a Statesman of repute he had a gr8 International standing OTOH Mao was considered a pariah

I will not say you're right or I'm right. It's just opinions and we may have different ones at that.

As far as I go, Nehru was a man of eloquent words but of no action (or all the wrong actions). If you call it a true statemanship, then may be you are right.

Tell me how would our history had shaped up, if Nehru did the followings:

1. Refused DL to form a govt in exile while inside India.

2. Rather then running to UN to hold on to LOC and agreeing to plebicide, pushed to gain control of full J&K.

Think real hard...

Nehru hosted DL in my view to convey a message to China that India is no push over n mind u he only wanted to convey this as he wanted to avoid any confrontation with China
Nehru's forward policy in that light was continuation of his aggrasive attitude in order for china to blink first i.e. he was tryin to bluff chinese

Nehru thought due to his stature as a statesman he could garner world support for himself n his nation even if Chinese tried to attack So the plannin of Nehru was pretty ok not that bad

Well... Was he successful in any of the above objectives by hosting the Tibetan govt in exile. Could he avoided confrontation? He did managed to get China blink first, and how they blinked!!! You are saying his planning was pretty ok, are you really serious?? Did he at all have any planning? Do you know what happened during the attack? Do you know that more soldiers died of hunger and cold then from chinese agression? Do you know that Chinese soldiers reached upto Tezpur in Assam without any challenge whatsoever. Planning my foot. One cannot have agressive stance with zero planning. It's pretty lame. Any Tom, Dick n Harry can have such planning, you don't have to be a world class leader to have such crappy planning. Do you know what Nehru did after the attack. He shed tears in front of the world media saying that he was sorry for Assamese people as Assam is bound to go under Chinese control. Did the Chinese do any atrocities in their captured areas? None, zero, zlitch, nada!!!! What does it tell you?

Now tell me wat did China gained from that war Aksai Chin was already in its control except for few very minor gains in Aksai Chin n Town of Demchok they withdrew from all there gains in NEFA

they now had a rival of its size may be smaller but nearly equivalent to it try to look from this perspective

What did china gain? You ask youself what did Pakistan gain from the two most stupidest action of Nehru's. A all weather friend. And the irony was that one was based on religion while the other required it's political leader to denounce religion. we still managed to make them all weather friend. Not to mention the uni-directional transfer of nuclear technology, enriched nuclear fuel etc.

You're still talking about rivalry? In todays scenario, you honestly believe this kind rivalry is good for either India or China? Competition- Good!! Rivalry- BAD!!!

Thank god that people who matters have put this so called rivalry behind and stretched on economic cooperation between the two giants. If it was still Nehru-ish doctrine prevailing we would still be running in circles. Do we want to run in circles like we are doing in case of Kashmir issue?

 

[CardSharp]

I will not say you're right or I'm right. It's just opinions and we may have different ones at that.

As far as I go, Nehru was a man of eloquent words but of no action (or all the wrong actions). If you call it a true statemanship, then may be you are right.

Tell me how would our history had shaped up, if Nehru did the followings:

1. Refused DL to form a govt in exile while inside India.

2. Rather then running to UN to hold on to LOC and agreeing to plebicide, pushed to gain control of full J&K.

Think real hard...



Well... Was he successful in any of the above objectives by hosting the Tibetan govt in exile. Could he avoided confrontation? He did managed to get China blink first, and how they blinked!!! You are saying his planning was pretty ok, are you really serious?? Did he at all have any planning? Do you know what happened during the attack? Do you know that more soldiers died of hunger and cold then from chinese agression? Do you know that Chinese soldiers reached upto Tezpur in Assam without any challenge whatsoever. Planning my foot. One cannot have agressive stance with zero planning. It's pretty lame. Any Tom, Dick n Harry can have such planning, you don't have to be a world class leader to have such crappy planning. Do you know what Nehru did after the attack. He shed tears in front of the world media saying that he was sorry for Assamese people as Assam is bound to go under Chinese control. Did the Chinese do any atrocities in their captured areas? None, zero, zlitch, nada!!!! What does it tell you?



What did china gain? You ask youself what did Pakistan gain from the two most stupidest action of Nehru's. An all weather friend. And the irony was that one was based on religion while the other required it's political leader to denounce religion. we still managed to make them all weather friend. Not to mention the uni-directional transfer of nuclear technology, enriched nuclear fuel etc.

You're still talking about rivalry? In todays scenario, you honestly believe this kind rivalry is good for either India or China? Competition- Good!! Rivalry- BAD!!!

Thank god that people who matters have put this so called rivalry behind and stretched on economic cooperation between the two giants. If it was still Nehru-ish doctrine prevailing we would still be running in circles. Do we want to run in circles like we are doing in case of Kashmir issue?

Well said. I've added my own hightlights.

Nehru's dealings with China fell down on the old proverb

Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find an equal of loss and victory. Know thy enemy but not yourself, wallow in defeat every time

As far as DL is considered, now its a catch 22 situation. We can only wait till he goes his natural way and then dismantle the Tibbetan govt in exile. It would be a tremendous CBM from us towards China. We all know, neither India nor China can afford even a big scale skirmish now if with want to continue towards the Asian Era. So trump card or not, DL (and for that matter Aksai Sin) are completely useless in the present scenario.

Such a gesture would go a long ways to improving the outlook between China and India, it wouldn't be overlooked, given how important territorial sovereignty is to China right now. For assurances of this, look to how China's relations with the Russians improved overnight when Gorbachev settled the Damansky Island territorial dispute amicably. Russia has also fought bloody border clashes with the PLA, but now things are forgiven and all is well on bothsides.

This continued playing up of the China threats in India plays right into Pakistan's hands. The more belligerent India is, the more staunch China's support Pakistan.

Do you know what Nehru did after the attack. He shed tears in front of the world media saying that he was sorry for Assamese people as Assam is bound to go under Chinese control. Did the Chinese do any atrocities in their captured areas? None, zero, zlitch, nada!!!! What does it tell you?

This is the first I've heard of this but it kind of sickens me. Here we have the man who is responsible for the unnecessary war, shedding crocodile tears for those whose lives he's thrown away through reckless gambling, and ill preparation. One can almost be forgiven for admiring the politics of Genghis Khan and other such marauders if this is the result of territorial ambitions without the military competence that should lie behind it.

 

[hembo]

Well said. I've added my own hightlights.

Nehru's dealings with China fell down on the old proverb

Problem is people, even today, do not understand that being agressive does not necessarily involve shouting and the usual huffs and puffs. Being agressive is all about strengthening oneself, with knowledge, capabilities, good moral and good relationship. Giving respect to others is not necessarily one's weakness, but one's greatness.

Such a gesture would go a long ways to improving the outlook between China and India, it wouldn't be overlooked, given how important territorial sovereignty is to China right now. For assurances of this, look to how China's relations with the Russians improved overnight when Gorbachev settled the Damansky Island territorial dispute amicably. Russia has also fought bloody border clashes with the PLA, but now things are forgiven and all is well on bothsides.

This continued playing up of the China threats in India plays right into Pakistan's hands. The more belligerent India is, the more staunch China's support Pakistan.

We can take a leaf from relationship between England and France. They were a lot bloodier past to them but look how they have managed to form a very successful alliance. I am a firm believer that if India and China manages to attain even a half of that kind of alliance, learning from each other's knowledge and expertise, our growth will be even more speedier and homogenous. We have everything to gain from each other in the future. Both have their positives and negatives at the moment, but sharing views and knowledge will definitely help in shrinking the negatives and enhancing the positives.

This is the first I've heard of this but it kind of sickens me. Here we have the man who is responsible for the unnecessary war, shedding crocodile tears for those whose lives he's thrown away through reckless gambling, and ill preparation. One can almost be forgiven for admiring the politics of Genghis Khan and other such marauders if this is the result of territorial ambitions without the military competence that should lie behind it.

Me too. This is the kind of hypocracy that rules our points of powers even today. Most of them are dishonest, corrupted, lacks vision and most importantly, immoral. Thank god for the few of our leaders who are actually making the difference.

You do realize why I mentioned the absence of any attrocities from Chinese soldiers in their captured areas during the war. This is the kind of preparedness I was talking about. They were crystal clear in their objectives and had not deviated even an inch from it. It talks volumes about the kind of discipline and morality taught to those soldiers. People may cry fouls on Chinese communism and what not, but one have to give respect and credits where it is due.

Even though I am an patriotic Indian, I would not hesitate to say this: If the situation was reversed and Indian soldiers had captured chinese territorries, the things would have been completely oposite. Forget about the past, even in present times, our soldiers do not spare our own people, given a chance. I am a eye witness to this. Harsh, but true!

 

[barcelona]

I will not say you're right or I'm right. It's just opinions and we may have different ones at that.

As far as I go, Nehru was a man of eloquent words but of no action (or all the wrong actions). If you call it a true statemanship, then may be you are right.

Tell me how would our history had shaped up, if Nehru did the followings:

1. Refused DL to form a govt in exile while inside India.

2. Rather then running to UN to hold on to LOC and agreeing to plebicide, pushed to gain control of full J&K.

Think real hard...



Well... Was he successful in any of the above objectives by hosting the Tibetan govt in exile. Could he avoided confrontation? He did managed to get China blink first, and how they blinked!!! You are saying his planning was pretty ok, are you really serious?? Did he at all have any planning? Do you know what happened during the attack? Do you know that more soldiers died of hunger and cold then from chinese agression? Do you know that Chinese soldiers reached upto Tezpur in Assam without any challenge whatsoever. Planning my foot. One cannot have agressive stance with zero planning. It's pretty lame. Any Tom, Dick n Harry can have such planning, you don't have to be a world class leader to have such crappy planning. Do you know what Nehru did after the attack. He shed tears in front of the world media saying that he was sorry for Assamese people as Assam is bound to go under Chinese control. Did the Chinese do any atrocities in their captured areas? None, zero, zlitch, nada!!!! What does it tell you?



What did china gain? You ask youself what did Pakistan gain from the two most stupidest action of Nehru's. A all weather friend. And the irony was that one was based on religion while the other required it's political leader to denounce religion. we still managed to make them all weather friend. Not to mention the uni-directional transfer of nuclear technology, enriched nuclear fuel etc.

You're still talking about rivalry? In todays scenario, you honestly believe this kind rivalry is good for either India or China? Competition- Good!! Rivalry- BAD!!!

Thank god that people who matters have put this so called rivalry behind and stretched on economic cooperation between the two giants. If it was still Nehru-ish doctrine prevailing we would still be running in circles. Do we want to run in circles like we are doing in case of Kashmir issue?

Don't dissect Nehru's policy after lookin at the result of the war wat wud any leader have done probably his best n in my opinion before critisiing Nehru watever he did was best in his eyes its other thing that his stronger adversary also did best so Nehru looked so Stupid

Man wat ur advocating is super catiouse approach that too after knowin the result

Now if u wud be in Nehru's shoe wat wud u have done n u don't know the result of 62 war n both USSR n USA r ur buddies ur Leader of third world countries NAM. Then wat acc. to u was best national Interest for ur country n also remeber UN didn't recognise PRC back then in 62


Now don't compare present scenario with 62 in bet. there were 70,80 in those decades India had a free run in Sub continent bcoz of its frendship with Russia partly based on mutual suspicion of China
So in that way China had rival in India on the west n Russia on the North

Its just becoz China has risen rapidly that u think Pakistan China friendship is hurting us very badly but u convinently forget the interlude when China was not wat China is today Then the reverse i.e. Indo-rus friendship was hurting China

If CIA can't predict demise of USSR i don't think anybody could. Policy wise Indian billigerence was justified thou i don't support this behaviour


Nehru is critisised today by many but in his times he tried his best thou if he wud have been successful we wud have lauded him

I am in no way advocating a biligerent atitude towards China but was tryin to defend Nehru

PS: Its better n logical for developing countries like India n China to cooprate on world stage wrt the developed world. These issue of border are very petty bet. mature countries like India n China