curfew in gurdaspur, Punjab

[Bhairava]

There is a difference between religion and culture mate. You can't ban religion, and I won't support it either.

What I don't support is when a minority becomes a majority and starts to threaten the minority and replace their culture with theirs.

Let me give you an example. Do you know that Punjab was free from any pan masala till the people from UP and Bihar migrated?

Now these people would chew this masala, and keep spitting on public property. Do you not think we should BAN the pan masala in Punjab???

It has nothing good in it, and it is destroying the clean cities that we had. How do you think we should deal with this? Or should we allow it cause India's constitution allows movement of people???

Now you see the difference between religion and culture and bad habits???

These are the same excuses MNS and SS (ironcally) give when they thrash the migrants in Mumbai...so would agree with them ?

Mind you. I'm not from either of these states...I'm from south and my state has also seen the north indian population grow exponentially over the years and our culture is even more different from theirs compared to the difference between you two.

But nothing can be done about it...this is India and constitution reserves them the right to settle and work from any place they wish. If their civic manner are not good, and it IS not good, then the solution is in better policing..not in banning them from etering our states outright.

Fair enough. I was just confused, cause I know all these Hindu Punjabis here who eat, sing, dance like Punjabis and claim they are Punjabis. So is there a native Hindu Punjabi population or not?

It is there and they constitute about 40% of the Punjab population.

 

[Nalwa]

Fair enough. I was just confused, cause I know all these Hindu Punjabis here who eat, sing, dance like Punjabis and claim they are Punjabis. So is there a native Hindu Punjabi population or not?

Of course there is. They have as much a right to call themselves Punjabis as the Sikhs. Balwant Gargi, Shiv Kumar Batalvi, Vinod Khanna, Balraj Sahni, Om Puri..many examples.

 

[jagjitnatt]

These are the same excuses MNS and SS (ironcally) give when they thrash the migrants in Mumbai...so would agree with them ?

Mind you. I'm not from either of these states...I'm from south and my state has also seen the north indian population grow exponentially over the years and our culture is even more different from theirs compared to the difference between you two.

But nothing can be done about it...this is India and constitution reserves them the right to settle and work from any place they wish. If their civic manner are not good, and it IS not good, then the solution is in better policing..not in banning them from etering our states outright.
.

LOL.

What northern population you see is the literate people who come to South to work in industries cause these high tech industries are not present in North.

What population comes to Punjab is the illiterate people who want to work as labor, cause they can not work in ANY high tech industry in the South.

 

[Roybot]

But doesn't Punjab need migrant workers though?

In my village in UP we don't get any labourers during harvest season cause they all migrate(temporarily) to Punjab(Higher wages apparently). Now UP farmers have started "importing" Harvesters and other heavy farm equipment from Punjab cause we can't find any laborers.

 

[janon]

1) You just won't get it cause you haven't faced it.[/B] When you do, you'll realize how bad this can get. Punjab has been violent in the past decade just because of these reasons.

2)I've seen these mobs burning cars, and even trains, and police not being able to do anything. The trains that were bought from our tax money, and not to mention these buggers have never ever paid tax. They are not a civilization, they are barbarians, whom we are trying to civilize.

3) I am not talking about regular Hindus, mind you. I am talking about goons hired by BSP, Shiv Sena, and RSS, who are trying to gain a hold in Punjab now, and convert it into something like UP and Bihar.

1) I haven't faced it because it doesn't exist. India does have a free media, and if punjab is in such a condition as you say, I am pretty sure I would have heard of it by now. PDF wouldn't be the first place I would be reading it about.

2) At this point I'm not sure who you mean by "these mobs". Who are the barbarians you are trying to civilise, which parts of India do these uncivilised savages come from? Trains are not paid for by YOUR tax money alone (if you mean punjabis), but the whole country's. And nobody has a right to burn trains, but that is not an argument against willing migration of people. Just like people burning trains in their native state (which happens far more frequently) is not an argument for forcibly shuttling all people around the country periodically. Same goes for non payment of taxes. If anyone doesn't pay taxes, arrest him or her. I know that tax evation is a huge problem in India, but to date I have not heard that migrant workers are the main culprits in that charge.

3) Well, so goons have to be punished. But that is true of all goons, whether they do that in their native place (again, far more commonplace, than migrant people engaging in such practices) or elsewhere. But that is also not an excuse to split india into several states, each issuing work visas etc. As long as they don't interfere with your rights, they have a right to be there, just as you.

 

[jayron]

Why do people belonging to Jatt caste alone take so much pride in their caste and flaunt it? When others are trying to come out of the caste system, why to still hold on to caste ? They seem to be Jatt first, Sikh or Punjabi later. How many castes have graphics like this?

 

[jagjitnatt]

Please....not everything is green on the other side. You have Sikh rightwing groups also doing the same thing as Shiv Sena..The rogue elements are there on both side. Let's not magnify one side and brush the other under the carpet.

Also another reason why RSS and SS are gaining hold is because of the Punjabi hindus feeling alienated and threatened by groups like Dal Khalsa. So if you people dont want these elements to gain any hold then deny them the oxygen they thrive upon. If there is no extreme sikh right win organizations, then no Punjabi Hindu will go towards SS et al.

You have no idea what you are speaking about.

Do read up something on Dal Khalsa. It has no influence, all it does is request Indian govt, nothing else. Nobody in India knows what Dal Khalsa is, that speaks volume of their support.

And about RSS, Shiv Sena, BSP, they are known all over the world for their dumb founded nature. They are influential, have millions of followers, and are taking matters into their own hands, instead of going to legal route.

And which state is Dal Khalsa active in btw?? Maharastra? Bihar? Kerela??

If DK isn't meddling with your state affairs, why the hell is RSS, SS meddling with Punjab??

 

[Bhairava]

LOL.

What northern population you see is the literate people who come to South to work in industries cause these high tech industries are not present in North.

What population comes to Punjab is the illiterate people who want to work as labor, cause they can not work in ANY high tech industry in the South.

NO those people who come to defence industries and IT are only a very small portion...But the bulk of them are from Odisha,UP,Bihar, Jharkhand. They are illiterate or unskilled and form the bulk of the construction labor, garment industry as cutting masters, petrol pump operators and even in hotels as cleaners. Some are even working in farms.

 

[cloud_9]

Please....not everything is green on the other side. You have Sikh rightwing groups also doing the same thing as Shiv Sena..The rogue elements are there on both side. Let's not magnify one side and brush the other under the carpet.

Well before the like of RSS and Shiv these Sikh hardliners were jobless the most they did were few rallies for some gurudwara's or other religious stuff against the Punjab government.But after a huge migrant wave ended here from Bihar and UP groups like Shiv Sena started to get a foot.Most of these guys are not even resident of Punjab they stir up some shi* and then run back to their villages.Well you can't demand certain things in Punjab when you are living in Bihar.

 

[janon]

LOL.

What northern population you see is the literate people who come to South to work in industries cause these high tech industries are not present in North.

What population comes to Punjab is the illiterate people who want to work as labor, cause they can not work in ANY high tech industry in the South.

Even if that is true, what is wrong with that? Is there anything criminal or disrespectable about wanting to work as labour? If that is how an illiterate person wants to do to feed his or her family, that is what he or she will do. It is not jsut IT professionals who have a right to seek work, illiterate and poor people have that right too. As long as they are EARNING their money, it enriches both parties, and nobody has a right to prevent them from doing that.

 

[Prometheus]

People are asking how can Shiv Sena could be so bold to do something like this!!!
Well in gurdaspur, shiv sena and other right wing groups are making problems from many years now.

In 2010, right wings burned down a chruch in gurdaspur ........curfew was imposed.

In 2011, they tried to break boundary wall of a gurudawara to extend a Temple..............curfew imposed again.........

Now in 2012, they challange the bandh called by "Akal thakt".........lol at them.

The kid that was killed was a engg student.
My cousin just told that her college ( the same engg clg) is in total lock down.........no one gets in or goes out.

 

[jagjitnatt]

Why do people belonging to Jatt caste alone take so much pride in their caste and flaunt it? When others are trying to come out of the caste system, why to still hold on to caste ? They seem to be Jatt first, Sikh or Punjabi later.

The caste system in Punjab is different from other parts in India, we don't have dalits and untouchables.

In Punjab, there is a zamindar(Jatt), different classes of warriors(Ramgharia etc), business man(Kapoor, Sondh) etc etc.

All of the castes are good at their job and no one is believed to be superior or inferior. Even the Chamaars(people who work in leather industry) are proud of them selves and have songs about themselves.


Only people not proud are migrants, who have an inferiority complex.

 

[Bhairava]

You have no idea what you are speaking about.

Do read up something on Dal Khalsa. It has no influence, all it does is request Indian govt, nothing else. Nobody in India knows what Dal Khalsa is, that speaks volume of their support.

SS and RSS are gaining ground because the Punjabi Hindus are feeling alienated in their own state. That is the unfortunate truth.This is from a Punjabi Hindu friend in another fora ;

I am not trying to make it one sided. I was trying giving an account of recent clashes. Sikh right wingers were out in markets and calling out (lalkarey) Hindu groups in Ludhiana, Phagwara and Amritsar, Patiala. They were in large numbers shouting slogans of khalistan. Only in Patiala Shiv sena goons came out in very small numbers, In Gurdaspur they had clash with Sikh groups and one person was shot dead by police. In Ludhiana no Hindu group has come out even in Hindu majority areas, irrespective of 3-4 hours of bad mouthing by large groups of Sikhs in four separate areas. The Sikh call for Band was comprehensive in Ludhiana and supported by Hindu traders though.

Shiv sena is asking to hang that man who is a convict, is a terrorist. Any Indian would like to see him dead.

Hindus see him as a pro Khalistani, people like him who were in large numbers were responsible for persecutions of Hindus during militancy. I haven't seen any Skih group even one in power ever condemning and saying sorry to Hindu killed during militancy. Being a Child I my self has heard/saw my area Sikhs reading Newspaper asking each other how many scores boys have made today (i.e) how many Hindus are dead when there was no cricket match to my surprise that day.

There is no justice given to any Hindu who was being killed, abducted, pulled out of buses and trains and butchered.

If DK isn't meddling with your state affairs, why the hell is RSS, SS meddling with Punjab??

Because again as I said Punjab is not exclusively Sikh in nature..there are nearly 40% Hindus, Punjabi Hindus, and thse groups are just filling in as the counterparts of the SIkh right wing groups.

Now either both of them are wrong, I personally feel so, or neither of them are wrong. There cannot be anything like only one side is wrong an others are correct.

 

[Roybot]

The caste system in Punjab is different from other parts in India, we don't have dalits and untouchables.

Wiki says Punjab has the highest percentage of dalits?

Apparently 30% of Punjab is Dalit?

 

[jagjitnatt]

People are asking how can Shiv Sena could be so bold to do something like this!!!
Well in gurdaspur, shiv sena and other right wing groups are making problems from many years now.

In 2010, right wings burned down a chruch in gurdaspur ........curfew was imposed.

In 2011, they tried to break boundary wall of a gurudawara to extend a Temple..............curfew imposed again.........

Now in 2012, they challange the bandh called by "Akal thakt".........lol at them.

The kid that was killed was a engg student.
My cousin just told that her college ( the same engg clg) is in total lock down.........no one gets in or goes out.

Exactly, but people here won't understand that. They are too naive, most being kids here, I expect that.

What is happening in Punjab is similar to Kashmir, only that in Punjab it is in its infancy. If SS, BSP and RSS isn't stopped, another riot is coming, and it will be bloodier, nastier, and I fear, Punjab might vanish from India's map by 2040.

Its still in its infancy, all of it can be stopped. We just need to enforce the laws without fear and politics.