CSmonitor: China-Japan "Rivalry" Who will be Asia's master builder?

[Sipahi]

productive rivalry

 

[j20blackdragon]

China vs Japan in construction? There is no comparison.

The top three tallest skyscrapers in East Asia are in China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Tower
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ping_An_Finance_Centre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldin_Finance_117

Skyscraper Completions 2014

Skyscraper Completions 2015

China generates more electricity than US and Japan combined.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2232rank.html

For years, the US bragged about the Interstate System as the "largest public works program since the Pyramids." China has completely leapfrogged it.
http://freegeo.org/2015/05/02/it-to...completely-leapfrog-the-us-interstate-system/

The longest bridges in the world are all in China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_bridges_in_the_world

The highest bridge in the world is in China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidu_River_Bridge

The world's longest cross-sea bridges are in China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donghai_Bridge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangzhou_Bay_Bridge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiaozhou_Bay_Bridge

I think it is very obvious which country is Asia's master builder.

 

[waz]

Impressive to see how Japan and China, together, are helping to build and develop Southeast Asia. This is what we can call -- Healthy Competition that produces Healthy Results!

It is impressive. Your side of Asia is quite lucky to have both you giants around. Our side we have erm, not much.
Please visit us soon.

 

[Aepsilons]

It is impressive. Your side of Asia is quite lucky to have both you giants around. Our side we have erm, not much.
Please visit us soon.

Fear not and fret not my Pakistani brother, The time is nigh...

It is impressive. Your side of Asia is quite lucky to have both you giants around. Our side we have erm, not much.
Please visit us soon.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-ja...o-fund-asia-infrastructure-eye-on-aiib-2015-5

 

[Daniel808]

Ms. Suwandi admits she got lucky on this rainy afternoon in early December. The drive from her house in the neighboring city of South Tangerang took an hour and a half. “It wasn’t bad,” she says. “Sometimes it can take three.”

About 30 million people live in Greater Jakarta, making it one of the most densely populated places in the world. The megacity’s notorious “macet” – Indonesian for traffic jam – can turn a normally short jaunt into an hours-long journey. Traffic barely crawls during a rush hour that can last far longer than 60 minutes. Flooded lanes and accidents bring it to a standstill.

Yes, same to me here. @Shotgunner51
I need at least 2 Hours to go to Office every morning, and 2 Hours again to go Home every day.
That's mean 20 hours in a week, I spend on the road. Just for work

But, with our President Mr.Joko Widodo and our Governor Mr.Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, I see many hope that Jakarta will have lot Proggress in the Future, especially from Infrastructure Project Investment by China and Japan.

Thanks for your Expressway Picture, that's really Informative @j20blackdragon
I don't know, Expressway Network in China is so Developed today. Great job !

 

[waz]

Fear not and fret not my Pakistani brother, The time is nigh... http://www.businessinsider.com/r-ja...o-fund-asia-infrastructure-eye-on-aiib-2015-5

Good news! I'm sure many Asian states will benefit from this.

 

[Aepsilons]

Thanks for your Expressway Picture, that's really Informative @j20blackdragon
I don't know, Expressway Network in China is so Developed today. Great job !

China's private developmental institutions such as CNOOC, GD POWER DC, Sinohydro, Sinopec, Sinosteel, Sinotrans et al are , indeed, innovative and transformative shoulders that help lift the people of China as well as other developing nation states and their peoples. I see the role of these Chinese state owned enterprises as being developmentalist and positive for the entire region, of which Indonesia is a vital member of. China's clout and economic potential will see its growth being realized, but also with that growth, a trickle-down effect to its great and many neighbors in her immediate proximity and beyond.

An excellent job , truly. Japan and Japanese patriots see China's role as being totally invaluable and imperative for the region , and the world.

良いたびを!!

Good news! I'm sure many Asian states will benefit from this.

With the full weight of Japan-led ADB (Asian Development Bank), which has over $250 Billion pocket, and then with Japan's Private Investiture through Japanese Private Enterprises (JPE) of over $110 Billion, we are looking at a net total of $360 Billion in regional and global developmental schema through Japan-led processes.

As you can see, my friend, Japan is truly vested in GLOBAL development. And She has been for the past 70 some years.

Japan, with Chinese led AIIB, is for regional development.

 

[waz]

With the full weight of Japan-led ADB (Asian Development Bank), which has over $250 Billion pocket, and then with Japan's Private Investiture through Japanese Private Enterprises (JPE) of over $110 Billion, we are looking at a net total of $360 Billion in regional and global developmental schema through Japan-led processes.

As you can see, my friend, Japan is truly vested in GLOBAL development. And She has been for the past 70 some years.

Japan, with Chinese led AIIB, is for regional development.

I'm hoping to see projects mushroom all over Asia with the help of the ADB.

 

[Aepsilons]

I'm hoping to see projects mushroom all over Asia with the help of the ADB.

Yes, bro! Hopefully , soon, Japan can directly be part of the AIIB. I see this as an inevitability. ADB and AIIB are transformational institutions that means the entire region benefits !

 

[Spectre]

Both Japan and China are competitors and why should Japan help China undercut it's own institution when all the strategic gains accrued from AIIB would be capitalized by China and from ADB by Japan.

@Nihonjin1051 hope you under-stand this is just business and Japan joining AIIB is chopping it's own foot. The countries are in it for the strategic gains and profit making.

 

[Aepsilons]

@Nihonjin1051 hope you under-stand this is just business and Japan joining AIIB is chopping it's own foot. The countries are in it for the strategic gains in and profit making.

Of course there is that business aspect, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt of Japan can give a token $2-5 Billion in the AIIB. The ADB , which has a total working capital of $250 Billion (and i think has increased , but need to get source for that ), is working full time to offer developmental loans around the world. So the ADB is not in any way affected by AIIB, since there are thousands of applications for loans around the world. Having a competitor organization like the IMF , WB, and now the AIIB will help qualitative improvement, i suppose. Plus, am sure the ADB will be used as a qualitative goal for the infant AIIB.

Japan's membership in the AIIB is just a token aspect. The symbolic gesture would reverberate throughout the region as our cooperative spirit.

 

[Spectre]

Of course there is that business aspect, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt of Japan can give a token $2-5 Billion in the AIIB. The ADB , which has a total working capital of $250 Billion (and i think has increased , but need to get source for that ), is working full time to offer developmental loans around the world. So the ADB is not in any way affected by AIIB, since there are thousands of applications for loans around the world. Having a competitor organization like the IMF , WB, and now the AIIB will help qualitative improvement, i suppose. Plus, am sure the ADB will be used as a qualitative goal for the infant AIIB.

Japan's membership in the AIIB is just a token aspect. The symbolic gesture would reverberate throughout the region as our cooperative spirit.

That is devious. I am sure China would love the symbolism as it would mean a major point scoring over US.

This would come with a heavy cost though - Displeasure of US and I don't see any tangible benefits for Japan unless Abe is re-thinking his broader China policy. Sorry but I don't see any benefits from AIIB - US and Japan in IMF and ADB have the least incentive - as for others it is all the same because they are minions either way.

 

[Aepsilons]

That is devious. I am sure China would love the symbolism as it would mean a major point scoring over US.

This would come with a cost though - Displeasure of US and I don't see any tangible benefits for Japan unless Abe is re-thinking his China policy.

Well there is that geopolitical tactical issue, my friend. But even in the American legation, there are lobbyist groups in Washington that is pressuring for America's membership. My point is that Japan should not be totally reliant on Washington's 'approval', despite the deep integration of the US-Japan economies. I think we should keep this issue purely economic and developmental discourse oriented, rather than letting political statecraft assumptions cloud our minds, my friend.

For me, I am even impressed to see that even India, which is a strategic competitor of China, being a member of both ADB and AIIB. This duality aspect of India as well as Indonesia (and other like-minded powers) is reverberating and inspiring.

 

[Spectre]

Well there is that geopolitical tactical issue, my friend. But even in the American legation, there are lobbyist groups in Washington that is pressuring for America's membership. My point is that Japan should not be totally reliant on Washington's 'approval', despite the deep integration of the US-Japan economies. I think we should keep this issue purely economic and developmental discourse oriented, rather than letting political statecraft assumptions cloud our minds, my friend.

For me, I am even impressed to see that even India, which is a strategic competitor of China, being a member of both ADB and AIIB. This duality aspect of India as well as Indonesia (and other like-minded powers) is reverberating and inspiring.

Mate, India lacks funds to starts it's own development bank - it is a net recipient hence India as a member of AIIB would be net recipient of funds - infact the first loan of AIIB would be to India.

There are only two countries currently - Japan and US which hold the reigns over Huge development agencies. China is starting it's own because it carries lot of geo-political benefits.

So - Japan and US would never join AIIB unless they get Veto Power - symbolism is not only useless but actually harmful for their interest as AIIB would be competing and under-cutting ADB and Japan joining AIIB would only grant it greater legitimacy and financial heft.

I appreciate brotherhood, symbolism, friendship, development economics etc and know only too well they come after nation's interest is safeguarded and in this case what I am trying to say is that joining AIIB is harmful to Japanese interest.

@Nihonjin1051 as an example of how AIIB would under-cut ADB consider the following scenario -

Let's say Sri-Lank goes for HSR tomorrow. AIIB agrees to finance it but it is communicated that Chinese HSR is the necessary vendor for their approval. China holds the Veto Power in AIIB hence it can impose such conditions. In such a case what will Japan do - undercut it's own HSR? It has to offer a better proposal through ADB or it's own bank and at the same time contribute to AIIB. This is non-sensical

 

[Aepsilons]

@Nihonjin1051 as an example of how AIIB would under-cut ADB consider the following scenario -

Let's say Sri-Lank goes for HSR tomorrow. AIIB agrees to finance it but it is communicated that Chinese HSR is the necessary vendor for their approval. China holds the Veto Power in AIIB hence it can impose such conditions. In such a case what will Japan do - undercut it's own HSR? It has to offer a better proposal through ADB or it's own back and at the same time contribute to AIIB. This is non-sensical

Let's say there is a proposal for highway construction in Arunachal Pradesh in India with high returns. China will refuse it because it contests the area is under dispute.

Great explanation, my friend!