Creating Turkmen entity in Mesopotamia?

[atatwolf]

Turkmen is third largest minority in Iraq. Would it be possible to create independent Turkmen state there? I think something similar must happen in Iraq what happened in Cyprus. All Greeks went to south and all Turks went to North in Cyprus. I think Turkey should concentrate all Turkmen around Mosul/Kirkuk and create Turkmen buffer-state.

I think if talks fail with PKK, which it eventually will if you listen to the threats, violence will start again. In the future Turkey will have to invade Iraq to clean out the PKK base around Erbil. This is how PKK was defeated in the past. This is how they will be defeated in the future. Pamukoglu says this is possible with 50 000 men.

When we invade Iraq, we shouldn't return with empty hands, we should create Turkmen state, create their own army and give them financial and military support. While back I read something about Turkmen wanting to create their own army to protect themselves against attacks. This can only be done with Turkey's help. Don't forget that Kirkuk is within Misaki milli borders!

 

[TheThreePashas]

Turkmen is third largest minority in Iraq. Would it be possible to create independent Turkmen state there? I think something similar must happen in Iraq what happened in Cyprus. All Greeks went to south and all Turks went to North in Cyprus. I think Turkey should concentrate all Turkmen around Mosul/Kirkuk and create Turkmen buffer-state.

I think if talks fail with PKK, which it eventually will if you listen to the threats, violence will start again. In the future Turkey will have to invade Iraq to clean out the PKK base around Erbil. This is how PKK was defeated in the past. This is how they will be defeated in the future. Pamukoglu says this is possible with 50 000 men.

When we invade Iraq, we shouldn't return with empty hands, we should create Turkmen state, create their own army and give them financial and military support. While back I read something about Turkmen wanting to create their own army to protect themselves against attacks. This can only be done with Turkey's help. Don't forget that Kirkuk is within Misaki milli borders!

Hmm. Hmm. I wish.


1) We'd have to compete with KRG (not a big problem military but politically) to open up land for the Turks
2) No one ever recognizes our states (KKTC)

I think, it's very distant and I don't know of any plans to do it but if it did happen, what could happen is a South Ossetia/Abkhazia type dual state formation in the North of Iraq much like what happened in Georgia. Two conditions would have to happen
-KRG/Kurdistan and Turkmen state would need to be allied.
-The resulting Turkmen state would inevitably be a micro-state. Much of the Turkmen population has been integrated/spread out.

 

[atatwolf]

-The resulting Turkmen state would inevitably be a micro-state. Much of the Turkmen population has been integrated/spread out.

That is why I said we need to relocate all Turkmen to Kirkuk/Mosul. It is their historical land. I mean when Cyprus war broke out, Greeks were killing Turkish Cypriots because they were mixed geographically. When we relocated Turks in the north and Greeks in the south this stopped. We need to do something similar in Iraq because Turkmen are getting killed almost daily.

 

[gr8vision]

1) What's the remaining Turcoman population in Iraq, and how many are in Turkey?

2) What is the current size and equipment of their self-defense forces in Kirkuk and around?

3) Why isn't Turkey educating their officers in its military colleges?

 

[atatwolf]

1) What's the remaining Turcoman population in Iraq, and how many are in Turkey?

There is still a big population in Mosul, Kirkuk. But some Turkmen left because they get attacked. When Turkmen entity is created they should move back to their ancestral land.

2) What is the current size and equipment of their self-defense forces in Kirkuk and around?

3) Why isn't Turkey educating their officers in its military colleges?

Turkmen in Iraq requested training and equipment to set their own army up in Iraq but there is no response from Turkey yet. As I said earlier Turkmen can't establish this by themselves. Turkish army needs to go in Iraq to clean PKK camps first. At the moment there are "peace" talks which will eventually fail. PKK want all of their conditions met which is a lot and won't be accepted by Turkish public. I predict soon PKK will start their operations again.

 

[Armstrong]

@atatwolf - Bro, Pan-Turkism would be the death of you !

If you don't like other countries talking about carving a Kurdistan out of Turkey than don't talk about creating a Turkish State in their countries !

People generally don't like that !

 

[atatwolf]

@atatwolf - Bro, Pan-Turkism would be the death of you !

If you don't like other countries talking about carving a Kurdistan out of Turkey than don't talk about creating a Turkish State in their countries !

People generally don't like that !

so you are also against north Cyprus? Turkish Cypriots should have been massacred and Turkey should have looked the other way? What is wrong with you? Mind your own business. Turkmen are getting killed almost weekly. You shouldn't talk about things you dont know anything.

 

[gr8vision]

so you are also against north Cyprus? Turkish Cypriots should have been massacred and Turkey should have looked the other way? What is wrong with you? Mind your own business. Turkmen are getting killed almost weekly. You shouldn't talk about things you dont know anything.

You guys are speaking about different things. Armstrong makes a very important point and should not be disparaged for it. At the same time, Atatwolf is making another point, which is more nuanced than one might think.

For starters, Turkey had full legal right to intervene in Cyprus under the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee - I wrote about it in this forum a month or so ago in a discussion with an Armenian user who mistakenly thought Turkey was condemned by the UN Security Council for it.

At the same time, Turkistan in Iraq (if there is a Kurdistan, then there is also a Turkistan - it's only fair) doesn't have the same status in international law as does Cyprus (or even Kashmir, which is a UN-recognized disputed area). Since Kurds already have an autonomy in Iraq, and that autonomy does not include Kirkuk, they should not aim to get more lands - but instead should try to develop the lands they got thanks to the pity of the world community over their treatment by Saddam.

 

[flamer84]

That's exactly what the Middle East needs right now with all the sectarian infighting,the creation of another "identity" within the borders of other states.Come on people....

 

[Armstrong]

so you are also against north Cyprus? Turkish Cypriots should have been massacred and Turkey should have looked the other way? What is wrong with you? Mind your own business. Turkmen are getting killed almost weekly. You shouldn't talk about things you dont know anything.

Fair Enough !

 

[tesla]

Fair Enough !

to ignore bro that atatwolf moron is living a fantasy world

 

[atatwolf]

Iraq is not like other countries. It is a made up country and if it is fragmenting between Kurds and Arabs .. Why shouldn't Turkmen get piece of the pie? Maybe you should answer that before insulting? Turken are getting killed and driven out of Turkmen lands. They need protection.

 

[mahatir]

Turkmen is third largest minority in Iraq. Would it be possible to create independent Turkmen state there? I think something similar must happen in Iraq what happened in Cyprus. All Greeks went to south and all Turks went to North in Cyprus. I think Turkey should concentrate all Turkmen around Mosul/Kirkuk and create Turkmen buffer-state.

I think if talks fail with PKK, which it eventually will if you listen to the threats, violence will start again. In the future Turkey will have to invade Iraq to clean out the PKK base around Erbil. This is how PKK was defeated in the past. This is how they will be defeated in the future. Pamukoglu says this is possible with 50 000 men.

When we invade Iraq, we shouldn't return with empty hands, we should create Turkmen state, create their own army and give them financial and military support. While back I read something about Turkmen wanting to create their own army to protect themselves against attacks. This can only be done with Turkey's help. Don't forget that Kirkuk is within Misaki milli borders!

this is not possible , Turkmen numbers is not that large , what is more feasible is creating a mutli-ethnic sunni confederation consisting of Arabs , kurds and Turkmen in Syria that will be under the protection of Turkey , in such a confederation Turkmen will have autonomous Rule and Turkish language will be official along with kurdish and arabic .

Syrian Sunni Arabs mostly are descendants of Arabized seljuk turks living in the north , with close relations and sharing borders with turkey by time the sunni arabs will learn turkish and dissolve within turkish society.

Rebels and kurds already control around 90% of the region you showed in the map on the syrian side . Americans and Russians are pushing for the partition of syria where rebels will end up with the northern syrian provinces with no sea access , thus they will have to rely on turkey to access the world .

I think the partition of syria is the best solution , a northern zone bound with turkey and bachar with his alawi clan have their on state in homs and syria coastal regions.

 

[gr8vision]

Fair Enough !

I am sure Atatwolf simply misread your post and didn't mean it like that. Emotions get in the way, especially on the internet. Let's all just share knowledge and facts, and reduce emotions.

 

[mahatir]

Iraq is not like other countries. It is a made up country and if it is fragmenting between Kurds and Arabs .. Why shouldn't Turkmen get piece of the pie? Maybe you should answer that before insulting? Turken are getting killed and driven out of Turkmen lands. They need protection.

Turkey itself is made up of various ethnic groups that were turkified over time , you need to think in terms of a bigger picture, neither kurds or arabs in iraq and syria have a strong cultural background to match turkey or its economic strength . The creation of a multi-ethnic confederation in Syria will certainly benefit turkey much more where through education , movie , music and culture it could turkify people living there by time .

I think Turks , Kurds and Sunni Arabs living in Northern Syria and Iraqi Anbar , should form some form of a confederation .

After partition of Syria , Iraq will be next .