CPEC: Asking the Wrong Question

[Genesis]

There's a lot of discussion on whether CPEC will be successful or not. That is the wrong question. CPEC at its core is just a collection of projects that some have finished and while others are still on going. Just because someone groups them together doesn't make it logical. Think BRICS.

The fact of the matter is, some projects will succeed, some will fail. China will have one motive, Pakistan another. If you choose to focus on the negative, than it would look to failed. If you focus on the positive than it looks to be successful.

That really doesn't matter, because these projects are really being built. As someone who has seen China go from being pushed onto a train as a 5 year old and now being able to go directly from Beijing to my hometown via HSR or air, depending on mood, I can honestly say, none of those things discussed in the media matters all that much to the common man.

More importantly, excuse me for being blunt, no one else is really jumping up and down for the opportunity to invest. So the reality of CPEC is existence of said infrastructure or on paper. Rather than the details that surrounds it.

Once Pakistan have these infrastructure, it can still go one of two ways. Straight to the top or not much at all. That is not something CPEC is built to decide, it's like a fancy suit. Dress for the job you want, you still need to be able to do the job.

 

[Clutch]

There's a lot of discussion on whether CPEC will be successful or not. That is the wrong question. CPEC at its core is just a collection of projects that some have finished and while others are still on going. Just because someone groups them together doesn't make it logical. Think BRICS.

The fact of the matter is, some projects will succeed, some will fail. China will have one motive, Pakistan another. If you choose to focus on the negative, than it would look to failed. If you focus on the positive than it looks to be successful.

That really doesn't matter, because these projects are really being built. As someone who has seen China go from being pushed onto a train as a 5 year old and now being able to go directly from Beijing to my hometown via HSR or air, depending on mood, I can honestly say, none of those things discussed in the media matters all that much to the common man.

More importantly, excuse me for being blunt, no one else is really jumping up and down for the opportunity to invest. So the reality of CPEC is existence of said infrastructure or on paper. Rather than the details that surrounds it.

Once Pakistan have these infrastructure, it can still go one of two ways. Straight to the top or not much at all. That is not something CPEC is built to decide, it's like a fancy suit. Dress for the job you want, you still need to be able to do the job.

Well written with some great points... CPEC is the journey and not the destination... where pakistan ends up at the end is pretty much Pakistan's own responsibility because we are the ones holding the steering wheel.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

There's a lot of discussion on whether CPEC will be successful or not. That is the wrong question. CPEC at its core is just a collection of projects that some have finished and while others are still on going. Just because someone groups them together doesn't make it logical. Think BRICS.

The fact of the matter is, some projects will succeed, some will fail. China will have one motive, Pakistan another. If you choose to focus on the negative, than it would look to failed. If you focus on the positive than it looks to be successful.

That really doesn't matter, because these projects are really being built. As someone who has seen China go from being pushed onto a train as a 5 year old and now being able to go directly from Beijing to my hometown via HSR or air, depending on mood, I can honestly say, none of those things discussed in the media matters all that much to the common man.

More importantly, excuse me for being blunt, no one else is really jumping up and down for the opportunity to invest. So the reality of CPEC is existence of said infrastructure or on paper. Rather than the details that surrounds it.

Once Pakistan have these infrastructure, it can still go one of two ways. Straight to the top or not much at all. That is not something CPEC is built to decide, it's like a fancy suit. Dress for the job you want, you still need to be able to do the job.

To be honest the biggest dividend of CPEC that Pakistan could harvest is "culture". China was a desperately poor country but then as a nation it united, nurtured and cultivated a culture that articulated it straight to where it is today. It was the way of thinking, way of doing, way of ethics and mindset that lifted China and will take it all the way to being a hyperpower.

Therefore the biggest benefit Pakistan could get out of CPEC is not the physical projects for they will wear out one day but the culture Chinese bring to Pakistan. If the younger generation of Pakistani's think and act like even half the way Chinese do instead of acting and thinking like Arabs success is guaranteed. Pakistan also will take off like China did.

Poverty and under-development is above all a state of mind.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Atta boy! From 'unmitigated success', 'game changer' to 'some will succeed, some will fail' . @Genesis to ensure CPEC success I think think of a few prudent measures that every single country uses:

- Employ local Pak labor to reduce costs instead of bringing in Chinese labor and paying them heavy, taking care of their expensive living in Pak etc.
-Use more pak companies to sub contract
- Transparently set what margins the chinese companies are making- are they charging 15% or 20% - no one in Pak knows - see at 40 Billion, that's a good 6 to 8 Billion in margins

(the same as above is also true for OBOR)

FOr 'unmitigated success of CPEC' will you be ready to make compromises in any of the above?

To be honest the biggest dividend of CPEC that Pakistan could harvest is "culture". China was a desperately poor country but then as a nation it united, nurtured and cultivated a culture that articulated it straight to where it is today. It was the way of thinking, way of doing, way of ethics and mindset that lifted China and will take it all the way to being a hyperpower.

Therefore the biggest benefit Pakistan could get out of CPEC is not the physical projects for they will wear out one day but the culture Chinese bring to Pakistan. If the younger generation of Pakistani's think and act like even half the way Chinese do instead of acting and thinking like Arabs success is guaranteed. Pakistan also will take off like China did.

Poverty and under-development is above all a state of mind.

woye @ranjeet ab bata. You were calling RG pappu when he said this. Turns out this is a universal feeling and these guys are ready to pay 50 billion for the right state of mind.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

50 billion

You bloody idiot stop infecting this thread with the Aboriginal shudra thinking. The $50 billion is for over 2,000 miles of motorway, power plants and other infrastructure the country needs. In the district I hail from there are at least two projects unfolding which are amazing and will elevate the regions connectivity to 1st world levels. That is when the "thinking or culture" comes in. If we can use that infra then Pak will take off. Using it to the max will be a function of "culture". If Pakistanis can emulate and learn from Chinese the mindset of hard work and progressive thinking instead of being trapped in feudal/religious vortex then success is guranteed. If not then it will be Paks failing. Not the Chinese.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

You bloody idiot stop infecting this thread with the Aboriginal shudra thinking. The $50 billion is for over 2,000 miles of motorway, power plants and other infrastructure the country needs. In the district I hail from there are at least two projects unfolding which are amazing and will elevate the regions connectivity to 1st world levels. That is when the "thinking or culture" comes in. If we can use that infra then Pak will take off. Using it to the max will be afunction of "culture". If Pakistanis can emulate and learn from Chinese the mindset of hard work and progressive thinking instead of being trapped in feudal/religious vortex then success is guranteed. If not then it will be Paks failing. Not the Chinese.

Oh I fully support you. You should definitely spend 50 Billion for the right state of mind. @ranjeet see.

 

[Shane]

Oh I fully support you. You should definitely spend 50 Billion for the right state of mind. @ranjeet see.

Correction! The right state of mind is to suck on Trump's big toe and hope he throws some thing at our certain animals urine loving neighbours to assemble under make in India. We fully support you too. @Kaptaan see.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Correction! The right state of mind is to suck on Trump's big toe and hope he throws some thing at our certain animals urine loving neighbours to assemble under make in India. We fully support you too. @Kaptaan see.

True Bro. Though maybe we may not need Trump largesse just yet. Our budget for building...eh...10,000 KM of new highway and up gradation of another 50,000 KM is somehow only 28 Billion. Our power plants probably come at about, say, 1 billion. Now if it was 50 billion for 2000 KM motorway, maybe we'd have to beg trump. But since it hasn't yet reached that amount, we'll keep begging for later and depend on urine exports for now.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Oh I fully support you

Thanks. It's nice to get validation from the Shudras.

For me the Hazara Motorway (Blue 2) is fascinating. Slicing through the hills that at every corner read from pages of history - some of South Asia's most history dense region [site of Gandhara/Taxila/SirkapGreeks etc] and going north to connecting with China in a modern iteration of the Silk Road. It offers a repeat of Ancient Pakistan and Chinese civilizational contact. In the past we gave Chinese Buddhism from Taxila which is at the start point of Hazara Motorway. Today we hope Pakistan can learn from China in a role reversal from history.

Then there is equally interesting Hakla-Yarik motorway being built ( Red 1) going south west to cross over Indus toward Balochistan. That also offers great potential. It is for the coming generation of Pakistanis to take this forward and change the trajectory of this country.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Thanks. It's nice to get validation from the Shudras.

For me the Hazara Motorway (Blue 2) is fascinating. Slicing through the hills that at every corner read from pages of history - some of South Asia's most history dense region [site of Gandhara/Taxila/SirkapGreeks etc] and going north to connecting with China in a modern iteration of the Silk Road. It offers a repeat of Ancient Pakistan and Chinese civilizational contact. In the past we gave Chinese Buddhism from Taxila which is at the start point of Hazara Motorway. Today we hope Pakistan can learn from China in a role reversal from history.

Then there is equally interesting Hakla-Yarik motorway being built ( Red 1) going south west to cross over Indus toward Balochistan. That also offers great potential. It is for the coming generation of Pakistanis to take this forward and change the trajectory of this country.

Yes...I see the magnificent highway in my minds eye. What great vision, how did I miss this before.

Well written with some great points... CPEC is the journey and not the destination... where pakistan ends up at the end is pretty much Pakistan's own responsibility because we are the ones holding the steering wheel.

CPEC is the journey and not the destination...

to be fair, I never thought of it that way till now.

 

[Genesis]

To be honest the biggest dividend of CPEC that Pakistan could harvest is "culture". China was a desperately poor country but then as a nation it united, nurtured and cultivated a culture that articulated it straight to where it is today. It was the way of thinking, way of doing, way of ethics and mindset that lifted China and will take it all the way to being a hyperpower.

Therefore the biggest benefit Pakistan could get out of CPEC is not the physical projects for they will wear out one day but the culture Chinese bring to Pakistan. If the younger generation of Pakistani's think and act like even half the way Chinese do instead of acting and thinking like Arabs success is guaranteed. Pakistan also will take off like China did.

Poverty and under-development is above all a state of mind.

It is true, I think Pakistan needs to have a culture of progress. By that i mean no longer accepting something to be only on paper, but to actually build. CPEC can show the people of Pakistan what good and on time infrastructure can do to your daily life.

Pakistan had a lot of vision, CPEC is as much a Chinese project as it is Pakistani. Pakistan knew what it wanted and needed, but just didn't make it. Now i believe with time, the People of Pakistan will no longer accept delayed and non paper projects. With that it will drive the nation forward.

Atta boy! From 'unmitigated success', 'game changer' to 'some will succeed, some will fail' . @Genesis to ensure CPEC success I think think of a few prudent measures that every single country uses:

- Employ local Pak labor to reduce costs instead of bringing in Chinese labor and paying them heavy, taking care of their expensive living in Pak etc.
-Use more pak companies to sub contract
- Transparently set what margins the chinese companies are making- are they charging 15% or 20% - no one in Pak knows - see at 40 Billion, that's a good 6 to 8 Billion in margins

(the same as above is also true for OBOR)

FOr 'unmitigated success of CPEC' will you be ready to make compromises in any of the above?



woye @ranjeet ab bata. You were calling RG pappu when he said this. Turns out this is a universal feeling and these guys are ready to pay 50 billion for the right state of mind.

China spends hundreds of billions each year on infrastructure upgrades in China alone. You think this is the end for Pakistan's infrastructure development? Hell no. If you don't know what good is you will forever be mediocre.

Why do you think Indian members can say this and that about China. You never been to China, to see the progress that's been made, if you guys had, you would feel foolish for saying these things.

If you had, you guys would never accept the state your infrastructure is in and demand faster progress.

This is just the beginning, as soon as Pakistani get a taste of this, no other government would dare to repeat the slow development of the past 50 years.

 

[Daniel808]

Thanks to @Kaptaan @Genesis @Clutch for posts.
Give us insight, about what is the Real meaning of CPEC to Pakistani people and China

Wish all the best for our Pakistani brothers and CPEC

 

[CriticalThought]

You bloody idiot stop infecting this thread with the Aboriginal shudra thinking. The $50 billion is for over 2,000 miles of motorway, power plants and other infrastructure the country needs. In the district I hail from there are at least two projects unfolding which are amazing and will elevate the regions connectivity to 1st world levels. That is when the "thinking or culture" comes in. If we can use that infra then Pak will take off. Using it to the max will be a function of "culture". If Pakistanis can emulate and learn from Chinese the mindset of hard work and progressive thinking instead of being trapped in feudal/religious vortex then success is guranteed. If not then it will be Paks failing. Not the Chinese.

Please don't abuse Aboriginals by associating them with Shudras. I am literally writing this while travelling on traditional Aboriginal land, so I have a right to be offended.

 

[Shane]

True Bro. Though maybe we may not need Trump largesse just yet. Our budget for building...eh...10,000 KM of new highway and up gradation of another 50,000 KM is somehow only 28 Billion. Our power plants probably come at about, say, 1 billion. Now if it was 50 billion for 2000 KM motorway, maybe we'd have to beg trump. But since it hasn't yet reached that amount, we'll keep begging for later and depend on urine exports for now.

LAME!

 

[Guynextdoor2]

@Kaptaan

It is true, I think Pakistan needs to have a culture of progress. By that i mean no longer accepting something to be only on paper, but to actually build. CPEC can show the people of Pakistan what good and on time infrastructure can do to your daily life.

Pakistan had a lot of vision, CPEC is as much a Chinese project as it is Pakistani. Pakistan knew what it wanted and needed, but just didn't make it. Now i believe with time, the People of Pakistan will no longer accept delayed and non paper projects. With that it will drive the nation forward.



China spends hundreds of billions each year on infrastructure upgrades in China alone. You think this is the end for Pakistan's infrastructure development? Hell no. If you don't know what good is you will forever be mediocre.

Why do you think Indian members can say this and that about China. You never been to China, to see the progress that's been made, if you guys had, you would feel foolish for saying these things.

If you had, you guys would never accept the state your infrastructure is in and demand faster progress.

This is just the beginning, as soon as Pakistani get a taste of this, no other government would dare to repeat the slow development of the past 50 years.

Don;t give me this BULLSHIT. We are spending hundreds of billions on infrastructure too. The question is not whether a country needs infra it is about at what cost it comes. You're offering a 50 billion project for barely 2000 miles of highway, a few power plants and some additional infra like airport? How much money do you spend for this? what is your benchmark for this? Less than half, I can assure you. This is a grand scheme to keep chinese construction workers and companies employed because Chine's infra projects are at a saturation point and you just cannot continue building at the same pace within the mainland anymore.

Fact- having a large number of debt ridden countries around India is just not going to be of any help to us. If they become unstable it will be a problem for us, though not for china. You'll close borders and beat them up, but we can't do that- our borders are long and porous.