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Cousin marriages (we need to talk about this)

What do you think?

  • Don't do it full stop

  • It's fine so long as it doesn't become a generational habit


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the closer you are genetically to the partner, the higher is the chance of carrying same recessive gene(in one of the 22 pairs of chromosomes) that causes rare genetic diseases... its possible that you dont get the same recessive gene and your child just remain carrier instead of getting the disease(as he/she got only 1).
Some countries do pre-marriage genetic counseling(like ksa, tunisia or iran)...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3419292/
 
Cousin is as good as real sister. Ban this sort of marriges. It will result in Genetic garbage only an ill generation.

Different cultures have different views. I doth consider cousins as good as real sisters, but I consider them close enough to it for me to not want to f*ck em.

Anyway, as I have said before numbers times, it's a FACT that it's safe so long as it's only done ONCE. Problems only arise when it happens over generations. If it happened from just one, over half of Pakistan should have a disability.
 
Look buddy dsr478 you have a religion\view you follow and I have mine lets keep it like that

I personally did a investigation of inner family cousin marrige and found no evidence to think it is anything improper , checked my own faith's guidelines and am fully 100% satisfied

I am quite open to both outer circle marrieg / inner circle marrige

Becasue I found no substantial evidence that suggest marrying in outer circle would result in superior race
the statistical data you can gather is really small, compared to what national govts can do.
 
Look buddy dsr478 you have a religion\view you follow and I have mine lets keep it like that

I personally did a investigation of inner family cousin marrige and found no evidence to think it is anything improper , checked my own faith's guidelines and am fully 100% satisfied

I am quite open to both outer circle marrieg / inner circle marrige

Becasue I found no substantial evidence that suggest marrying in outer circle would result in superior race

Islam encourages you to marry those outside of your inner circle to spread Islam and unify Muslims.

In Islam it tells parents to look after their kids, how can you be looking after your kids if you intentionally get them disabled because of your selfish whims and desires? Doing it once is fine, but don't repeat it constantly over generations.

My conclusion isn't opinion, it's FACT. If you continue this practice over generations despite knowing this, you will create cases like @Peaceful Civilian and his family had to endure.
 
Hi guys.

So yeah. I know. That topic. A lot of people are very sensitive about it, and do not appreciate the terms associated with it, but we need to have this conversation. It concerns not just Pakistan, but many other countries within the region too such as Iran, India, Afghanistan and Bangladesh (it also concerns the Arabs too). Here's a map showing it's prevalence throughout the region:

I5dEUIn.png


Many of you out there such as @Horus believe that there is nothing wrong with marrying your cousin, others such as @abcxyz0000 vehemently condemn the practice (or at least that's what previous threads on the topic give the impression of). Gentlemen, we are here to reach a conclusion based on the facts we have readily available. I will present my case, and I encourage others to do the same within this thread. Now, onto the discussion.

I'm going to structure this by busting some common myths in depth, and then reaching my own conclusion to share with you, here I go:

1. Marrying your cousin is incest

Wrong, whilst different cultures might treat it as incest it is not actually incest. The definition if incest is "having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild". Having a relationship with your cousin does not fall into this category and genetically speaking they are nowhere near as genetically similar to you as other family members are as these statistics clearly demonstrate:

550px-Cousin_tree_(with_genetic_kinship).png


Heck, even these statistics are the median/upper boundaries. First cousins can often share only 7% of their genetic make up with you. So it's far from incest.

The line only gets blurred when you talk about inbreeding, as the definition for that is to "breed from closely related people or animals, especially over many generations". Some might consider cousins to be closely related, others not so much. Compared to marrying your other relatives, marrying your cousin is nowhere near as bad (especially when you get into third cousin territory). Also, the definition applies specific emphasis on the "over many generations" bit (more on that later). So even if you consider cousins as closely related, it's not really inbreeding unless done over many generations.

Also, please keep in mind that terms such as inbreeding and incest are often used as derogatory terms so even if you mean no offence, it will still make people upset or angry so please refrain from such language. That goes for all types of derogatory slurs in general.

2. Having children with your cousin produces horribly mutated beings

No. No it does not. The percentage risk of the child having any defect of any sort (including mild ones such as poor hearing) is roughly the same as that of a child produced by a 40 year old women. Are you going to tell me 40 year old women usually produce horribly mutated babies? No, because that's not the case. Don't believe me? Take a look at what the statistics say:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...s-getting-married-scientists-say-1210072.html

https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=facts

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/02/people-stop-thinking-appropriate-cousins-marry/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Genetics

Even if you go by the argument of "an increase in risk is still an increase in risk", by that logic you should only marry people of completely different race for the most genetic diversity.

These sources do also bring up that infamous Pakistani Briton statistic, and explains it. In those cases, the cousins were mostly double cousins or cross/parallel cousins. In other words, these people had this practice going on for generations. So the risk for these guys would obviously be much higher, which is why they yielded many more disabilities. It's also important to take note that over 50% of Pakistani Britons are married to their cousins. The vast majority of them obviously do not produce children which are horribly disabled, as the British birth defect rate is at 2%:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...in-50-babies-has-a-birth-defect-research.html

So it's clear that even the ones who continue the practice over generations, they do not always produce horribly disabled children (but the risk is significantly higher).

However, there's one topic that's a bit more controversial. IQ. There are many statistics showing children whose parents are cousins have low IQ's, such as this one:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/07/cousin-marriage-can-reduce-i-q-a-lot/#.WIuUvFN97IU

But fear not, because most of these tests have yielded contradictory results and the conditions for the tests have not exactly been fair. For example, it's unknown as to whether or not the students are the product of many generations of cousin marriage, or it's just their parents who chose to do so. Given that cousin marriage is legal throughout most of the world (including Western countries such as the UK), I highly doubt it would honestly affect IQ's. The students who score lower also tend to come from less economically stable backgrounds, which can affect IQ:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Genetics_and_environment

Not to mention IQ's do not predict how successful you will become in life. You can have a high IQ and still fail school, it's your effort which really matters. I think it's also fair to mention that I have known many people whose parents are cousins and have perfectly fine (some even superior) IQ's. If IQ's were really affected by cousin marriage, then Pakistan should have the lowest IQ worldwide due to it having the highest rate of cousin marriage worldwide, but it doesn't even come close.

iq_by_country.png


Now, what about this statistic?

http://www.nairaland.com/1448664/muslim-countries-found-highest-rates

The above source clearly shows the countries with high rates of cousin marriage have high rates of birth defects. In fact, all these countries (with the exception of Benin) have high rates of cousin marriages. First of all, whilst high, Sudan (which tops the list) still has about 8% of it's population with birth defects. That's pretty high, but as with all the other negative statistics on cousin marriages, this one is because of people engaging in the activity for numerous generations. This is clearly evident because if it was purely based in every type of cousin marriage, Pakistan should come out on top for birth defects, but that's not the case (we aren't even in the top 10). Secondly, 8% is far from majority.

Conclusion:

Cousin marriage is fine so long as it is not done over numerous generations. What should be regarded as numerous is up for debate, not enough research has been done to conclude at which point the line should be drawn, but you should steer away from the practice if anyone in your recent family history has engaged in the act, and when I say recent I mean if anyone later than your great great great grandfather married their cousin, it's a no-no for you unless some compatibility tests prove otherwise (and they have to be from a reliable hospital). This has to be followed so we can ensure people are born healthy and without problems, whilst still being fair to cultural norms among certain people.

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i think they shouldnt happen
 
It's fine once, but repeating the act over generations makes it become an issue. So the fact is it's a grey area.
in ME and south asia, it happens because of tradition, not because of random occurrence of attraction between relatives.. which makes one off thing difficult...
The reason people give usually is(in India), you trust people who you already know... in arranged marriage where girl is fearful of what will happen to her in the new family, trust is important... the other reason given is 'money stays within extended family when dowry is practiced'...
All these makes it generational thing... btw hindus in some parts(in south india) also do it... so its not muslim only thing.
 
There is no problem in our society nor our religion nor our culture all you folks who love the other side should

Apply for immigration to Trump's Trump Tower

Lets see how baby #33 will approve your immigration to his country

We can marry both with in our family circle / outer circle there is openness in our faith

This argument that somoenehow , we must only marry outer circle marriges is absurd

Rule is simple : You see somoene you are attracted to , you communicate and propose (both in inner circle or outer circle)

Your baby will still be quite normal

Uness of course you smoke or someone does drugs or someone has horrible diet or tremandous amount of other stuff


Birth Defects are "part of life"
Happens in inner circle marriges and outer cricle
eb3a0ec95ab0f5f5a167871fa6387abc.jpg


The bottom line in end is always what the man / women feel "attraction" and as long as it is not a direct blood relation
 
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in ME and south asia, it happens because of tradition, not because of random occurrence of attraction between relatives.. which makes one off thing difficult...
The reason people give usually is(in India), you trust people who you already know... in arranged marriage where girl is fearful of what will happen to her in the new family, trust is important... the other reason given is 'money stays within extended family when dowry is practiced'...
All these makes it generational thing... btw hindus in some parts(in south india) also do it... so its not muslim only thing.

But thankfully it's decreasing in our part of the world, and by our I mean South Asia. God help those Arabs though, I hear it's going up for them!

There is no problem in our society nor our religion nor our culture all you folks who love the other side should

Apply for immigration to Trump's Trump Tower

Lets see how baby #33 will approve your immigration to his country

Don't start being stupid. I have provided the facts and if you ignore them you will suffer from it, and so will your family.
 
Hypocritical much?



If anyone up his recent family tree were cousins, then yeah it might have to do with cousin marriage.

Sorry I Was not sure .
Asked my mother now , they weren't cousins .
 
But thankfully it's decreasing in our part of the world, and by our I mean South Asia. God help those Arabs though, I hear it's going up for them!
arabs are at least doing the screening... I have not heard about any genetic screening in India(or pakistan)... so arabs have the information of risk beforehand... what they do with it is another matter(apparently 90% of cases in KSA when screening shows higher risk, people go ahead and marry anyway).
 
arabs are at least doing the screening... I have not heard about any genetic screening in India(or pakistan)... so arabs have the information of risk beforehand... what they do with it is another matter(apparently 90% of cases in KSA when screening shows higher risk, people go ahead anyway).

Yeah those screenings mean jack sh!t since people ignore them and a lot of the time even if there are risks they are swept under the rug by the doctors.

I married to my cousin and result is this

View attachment 372618

Hence why I said don't do it over generations, but once off is fine.
 
We always marry our cousins since generations not a single birth defect Alhamdolillah.

Well then you have been very lucky, since many others such as @Peaceful Civilian and his family have not been. We need to stop this practice from occurring frequently over generations.
 
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