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Cost of Australian combat soldier's kit soars to $27,700

Don't talk like an a$$hole when you know squat! Your problem probably lies in the fact that you don't know me. I ain't any old layman you're trying to bullsh!t. So keep those yarns to yourself and argue with someone your age.

Some clowns like you think they can bulldoze their way through just because they have served or a serving in the Army, little realizing that there may be others here who have vastly more experience than them!

Jeeez! The self styled Rommels and Guderians we have to put up with here! :pop:

Lots of vitriol, not much content.

Not a single yarn was spun.

Mate look- how much of the torso and abdomen is exposed? These are vital areas and one stray bullet/shrapnel and you can bleed out in minuets.

Yeah you can bleed out from the abdomen, but I would rather be shot there than in the chest where the lungs, heart etc are.

I think this lad just picked up the wrong sized BPJ.
 
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Dude,RR has controlled an insurgency that started off with terrorists camps inside the Indian LOC.During those days MMGs and RPGs were very common with the terrorists.In the early 90s when the RR was formed the situation was not that good.

If you compare it to now the RR has the complete thing in control.Obviously the western armies will have a better ratio because of better budget and technology in use.Many of our soldiers die just because proper first aid is not given to them.

But if you talk about comparing RR to ISAF then i would without a doubt say that RR has full area control with the least number of incidents.We dont have terrorists bombing the **** out of government offices here.

Last months incident is a one off case which might be making you think that the RR is not good but you only need to read last 6 months news to find out how many Area Commanders has the RR killed.

I'm not doubting the capabilities of the RR, they've undertaken and successfully completed a daunting task.

I'm noting the fact that there could have been far less RR casualties IF they had better equipment provided to them. Would you really not want RR infantrymen to be decked out like the diggers here?
 
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Lots of vitriol, not much content.

Not a single yarn was spun.



Yeah you can bleed out from the abdomen, but I would rather be shot there than in the chest where the lungs, heart etc are.

I think this lad just picked up the wrong sized BPJ.

Indeed it is a vital area and you will often see BPJs/plate-carriers protecting these areas more carefully these days:


File:Polizei.jpg


full_protection_bulletproof_jacket.jpg


Bullet-Proof-Vest-B9612.jpg


Bullet-Proof-Vest.jpg



Full-Protection-Molle-Bullet-Proof-Vest-Jacket-RYY97-212-.jpg



B9610-Bullet-Proof-Jacket.jpg



All_protection_Bullet_proof_vest_634569474901425576_3.JPG



B9618-Bullet-Proof-Jacket.jpg


Maybe this guy wrong, maybe not- I don't know. I just think for general infantry deployed in such environments the trend has been more protection and was very alarmed when I saw this guy where most of his torso is compeltly unprotected. Forget bullets- shrapnel will rip him apart.

I'm noting the fact that there could have been far less RR casualties IF they had better equipment provided to them. Would you really not want RR infantrymen to be decked out like the diggers here?
No arguments there- no doubt if India had this kind of mullah (per capita) casualties rates would plummet as the grunts got better kit.
 
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remember when I first got to Iraq, where each squad have to make do with the stuff the Army gave us.

Some people have underslung M203, some have ACOG and some have RIS attachment. WE either trade or use our own money to get what we wanted. 2 NVG per squad of 5.

We got on the field, with a bog standard M4, K-Pot, IBA and should/knee pad, then there we go.

Now you got plate carrier, MASSIF this, GPS this and you have multiple level of armour and clothing. Man, how time had changed.

If you were to ask a soldier to wear 27 grand worth of kit to battle, why don't you just gave them basic RBH303 Helmet, Body armor and a proper combat uniform and gave what left from that 27 grand to the soldier? Today soldier is CRIMINALLY underpaid.

How else can you have somebody to keep the torch and braving bullet when they are pay less than a cable layer working for Telstra?? (They got paid 60-70 k a years vs 40-50k for a soldier.)

Mate from this pay chart:

http://content.defencejobs.gov.au/pdf/triservice/DFT_Document_PayRates.pdf

A private in the ADF will be paid 54k whilst not in combat.

There are combat conditions allowances as well IIRC, plus the income becomes taxfree.

On the whole ADF men get paid better than their US counterparts.
 
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Indeed it is a vital area and you will often see BPJs/plate-carriers protecting these areas more carefully these days:


File:Polizei.jpg


full_protection_bulletproof_jacket.jpg


Bullet-Proof-Vest-B9612.jpg


Bullet-Proof-Vest.jpg



Full-Protection-Molle-Bullet-Proof-Vest-Jacket-RYY97-212-.jpg



B9610-Bullet-Proof-Jacket.jpg



All_protection_Bullet_proof_vest_634569474901425576_3.JPG



B9618-Bullet-Proof-Jacket.jpg


Maybe this guy wrong, maybe not- I don't know. I just think for general infantry deployed in such environments the trend has been more protection and was very alarmed when I saw this guy where most of his torso is compeltly unprotected. Forget bullets- shrapnel will rip him apart.


No arguments there- no doubt if India had this kind of mullah (per capita) casualties rates would plummet as the grunts got better kit.

Yeah, I was confused earlier.

I'm not actually sure if plate carriers come in different sizes. In any case this lad looks upwards of 6'4'' the Austeyr looks like a toy in his hands whereas when laid across my chest the end of the barrel will be at/below my waist, chances are there isn't a system in service that'll cover him fully.
 
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I'm not doubting the capabilities of the RR, they've undertaken and successfully completed a daunting task.

I'm noting the fact that there could have been far less RR casualties IF they had better equipment provided to them. Would you really not want RR infantrymen to be decked out like the diggers here?

Mate,I started of with the post that "i wish my country had something like this".Obviously i would want them to have better gear.RR personnel have a ratio in between of 4-6:1 which means for every 4-6 terrorists killed we loose 1 RR jawan.If we can give them a better gear the ratio can be bettered and we will loose far less troops.
 
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Yeah, I was confused earlier.

I'm not actually sure if plate carriers come in different sizes. In any case this lad looks upwards of 6'4'' the Austeyr looks like a toy in his hands whereas when laid across my chest the end of the barrel will be at/below my waist, chances are there isn't a system in existence that'll cover him fully.
Yeah I'm sure his (enormous) size has something to do with it. However I do know that you can get different size plate carriers and if you're paying $27,000+ per soldier I'm sure you can get this guy proper fitting protection.


+ that's a F88, no @kbd-raaf bro?

Mate,I started of with the post that "i wish my country had something like this".Obviously i would want them to have better gear.RR personnel have a ratio in between of 4-6:1 which means for every 4-6 terrorists killed we loose 1 RR jawan.If we can give them a better gear the ratio can be bettered and we will loose far less troops.
You're 100% right bro! the fatalities are down to inferior equipment (wrt Western nations) which is a damn, tragic shame-but it is what it is.
 
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Yeah I'm sure his (enormous) size has something to do with it. However I do know that you can get different size plate carriers and if you're paying $27,000+ per soldier I'm sure you can get this guy proper fitting protection.


+ that's a F88, no @kbd-raaf bro?


You're 100% right bro! the fatalities are down to inferior equipment (wrt Western nations) which is a damn, tragic shame-but it is what it is.

I personally feel if we give our troops the same gear and also if they have air ambulances then we can easily make it 10:1 too.
 
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Yeah I'm sure his (enormous) size has something to do with it. However I do know that you can get different size plate carriers and if you're paying $27,000+ per soldier I'm sure you can get this guy proper fitting protection.


+ that's a F88, no @kbd-raaf bro?


You're 100% right bro! the fatalities are down to inferior equipment (wrt Western nations) which is a damn, tragic shame-but it is what it is.


Referring to the bolded part, yeah I amended what I wrote to "in service".

Yup but not the base model F-88, might be the F-88SA2.
 
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I personally feel if we give our troops the same gear and also if they have air ambulances then we can easily make it 10:1 too.

Air ambulance/MEDIVAC is already there- 1-2 ALHs are on station at anyone time for this specific role. IA now sticks to the "golden hour" practice so that's not really an issue. And all the military hospitals in the Valley (and mainland) are top-notch, if the soldier isn't dead after the initial firefight then they have a very good chance of survival.

It is this initial firefight casualty/fatality rate that needs to be addressed as such it comes down to the protection the soldiers are wearing (BPJ/HELMET) and this is where the IA is lacking-right now.
 
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Air ambulance/MEDIVAC is already there- 1-2 ALHs are on station at anyone time for this specific role. IA now sticks to the "golden hour" practice so that's not really an issue. And all the military hospitals in the Valley (and mainland) are top-notch, if the soldier isn't dead after the initial firefight then they have a very good chance of survival.

It is this initial firefight casualty/fatality rate that needs to be addressed as such it comes down to the protection the soldiers are wearing (BPJ/HELMET) and this is where the IA is lacking-right now.

I didnt know we had a air ambulance with doctors ready to operate anyone who has been shot in the battlefield...can you provide any link?

Secondly the medical kit is not up to the mark.A few years ago only we didnt have blood clot bandages.Military Hospitals are of good quality i agree.
 
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I didnt know we had a air ambulance with doctors ready to operate anyone who has been shot in the battlefield...can you provide any link?
It's all true! I've heard it first hand but for more proof (if you don't believe me bro :cry:)


Helicopters save lives

The Dhruv ALH, in air ambulance configuration.
The air ambulance configuration of the Dhruv ALH provides a unique CASEVAC capability from inhospitable environments. The 202 Squadron’s unit doctor, says the idea is to pick up a casualty from a forward location, stabilize him in the air and either improve or maintain his current condition till the time he reaches a high medical center.
Evacuating by air has its own, different challenges in comparison to evacuation on ground, involving flights at different speed, temperatures and pressures. There are a lot of aero-medical issues that are involved in stabilizing the casualty,” says the doctor, adding, “There are certain casualties which require a certain amount of restrictions in terms of the altitude, in terms of the rate of ascent and descent.”

The air ambulance can carry four stretchers cases and two sitting casualties, attended by a medical attendant and a dispatcher, or simply eight sitting casualties at a time. Casualties are slid in an out of the aircraft through the clamshell doors in the back with the average time being 30 seconds each.

The doctor says the most crucial thing for a patient in the air is oxygen management. “When we’re carrying him in the air he should not be deprived – he should not deteriorate – especially since he’s coming from high altitudes. So we have the Independent Patient Oxygen System, which consists of two cylinders and four masks. So one cylinder takes care of two lying patients for a minimum of two to two and a half hours – continuous hundred percent oxygen.”



The air ambulance also carries a Multi System Monitor equipment for constant monitoring the four basis important parameters of casualties, pulse, blood pressure, body temperature and ECG. “We can shift up the monitoring system from one patient to another, as and when required,” says the doctor. The system can monitor the parameters of multiple patients simultaneously. “I can monitor the blood pressure of one patient the oxygen for the other the ECG for the third – so I can monitor multiple patients at a time, depending on the requirement,” he says.


Also onboard is a defibrillator for providing an electric shock in the event of a cardiac arrest. The system analyzes the status of the heart and also indicates if the electrodes are not properly connected. “The moment it says that shock has to be given I press the red button. Otherwise it will tell me ‘Please remove the leads shock not required’,” says the specialist in aviation medicine.
Both of these devices have independent batteries which have an endurance of around two and a half hours and do not require an external power supply, catering for long distance CASEVAC, as well.

They also carry special stretchers. The ‘Scoop’ stretcher can be disassembled, placed on the sides below a casualty with spinal injury and reassembled allowing the casualty to be picked up and moved. They also have a stretcher that can allow a casualty to be winched up, but this is still at a trial stage and would come into play only when there is absolutely no place for the aircraft to land.

And of course, the aircraft carries the ‘doctor’s bag’, which includes a standby oxygen system, ventilator system, suctions apparatus and essential drugs.

“Yesterday we had a gunshot wound at a forward area. It was stabilized initially by the personnel there. We took off the aircraft in the air ambulance role, reached that place, picked up the casualty,” he says. The casualty’s blood pressure dropped and he required a large vessel repair. The air ambulance stabilized the patient and brought him to the referral hospital in Srinagar where he is now stable.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...viation-special-operations.html#ixzz2YBNuCokx

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...-indian-army-aviation-special-operations.html

Air Ambo configuration:

ALH-9.jpg


ALH-6.jpg


ALH-7.jpg
 
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I dont think the indian army can be equipped like that as it has a very large army and it will cost way too much likewise many other armed forces. Currently many armies are reducing their armed forces size while making it more modern equipped such as the Turkish Armed forces which dropped from around 700,000 to 500,000 and will drop further , UK to 82,000 from 100,000.
 
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Indeed it is a vital area and you will often see BPJs/plate-carriers protecting these areas more carefully these days:


File:Polizei.jpg


full_protection_bulletproof_jacket.jpg


Bullet-Proof-Vest-B9612.jpg


Bullet-Proof-Vest.jpg



Full-Protection-Molle-Bullet-Proof-Vest-Jacket-RYY97-212-.jpg



B9610-Bullet-Proof-Jacket.jpg



All_protection_Bullet_proof_vest_634569474901425576_3.JPG



B9618-Bullet-Proof-Jacket.jpg


Maybe this guy wrong, maybe not- I don't know. I just think for general infantry deployed in such environments the trend has been more protection and was very alarmed when I saw this guy where most of his torso is compeltly unprotected. Forget bullets- shrapnel will rip him apart.


No arguments there- no doubt if India had this kind of mullah (per capita) casualties rates would plummet as the grunts got better kit.


What you don't realize is that they have body armour under their uniform you cant see that protects their groin area and lower body etc. Go back to the first post and look at the picture and the descriptions of each part. The reason they don't have the area covered with 1 piece of armour is for better move-ability.
 
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What you don't realize is that they have body armour under their uniform you cant see that protects their groin area and lower body etc. Go back to the first post and look at the picture and the descriptions of each part. The reason they don't have the area covered with 1 piece of armour is for better move-ability.

I'm talking about specifically the torso and as far as I'm concerned wrt this particular soldier- much of his upper body is left very vulnerable and I don't see any under armour covering these areas.n

I dont think the indian army can be equipped like that as it has a very large army and it will cost way too much likewise many other armed forces. Currently many armies are reducing their armed forces size while making it more modern equipped such as the Turkish Armed forces which dropped from around 700,000 to 500,000 and will drop further , UK to 82,000 from 100,000.

Apples and oranges. Firstly the UK army is being cut due to crippling defence budget CUTS and not out of choice. Secondly the IA has their own modernsation scheme that will make use of many Indian products which means the costs will be considerably less when compared to the Western equipment but it should be just as capable. Look out for the F-INSAS, we'lln have to see how this matures before making such sweeping comments.
 
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