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Coronavirus can be treated by cow urine, dung: Hindu Mahasabha president

Only HIV-1 is the one that comes up in all the four inserts.
I am not a virologist but I am a molecular biologist and have experience with genetics and biotechnology- Basically a biologist! So, if this was breakthrough or even remotely as interesting of a discovery as indians want to have others believe, it would have been on nature or science...

Pray tell me, will you discredit some work just because it uses a technique known since antiquity?
No, but I will discredit it for making more noise than it is worth!

My country has no junk. @jaibi You wanted to see an ad-hominum, here is your chance.
I just repeated what you did in context of present day scenario:

This work is a trillon times better than what OP has posted. Just some junk he found.
I referred to that JUNK
 
I am not a virologist but I am a molecular biologist and have experience with genetics and biotechnology- Basically a biologist! So, if this was breakthrough or even remotely as interesting of a discovery as indians want to have others believe, it would have been on nature or science...
Good to know!

Then comment on the actual work shown in the paper properly and not handwave it. Thanks!

I just repeated what you did in context of present day scenario:
"your country". I quote you. Thanks.
 
My country has no junk. @jaibi You wanted to see an ad-hominum, here is your chance. Apparently, now mods have the same issue as well.

Comprehension issues or trying to be the victim here?

ad-hominum
Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, typically refers to a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

So, basically you were ACTUALLY by its definition ...you were character assassinating OP...perfect example of ad hominem!

Then comment on the actual work shown in the paper properly and not handwave it. Thanks!
I did comment....It is basic alignment tool which every scientist worth their bread does as a 1st step! Meaning ANYONE studying that virus would have done it...and until and unless it is peer reviewed, I as a non virologist will not comment on what is claimed!
 
Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, typically refers to a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

So, basically you were ACTUALLY by its definition ...you were character assassinating OP...perfect example of ad hominem!
You were implying that I belong to a country that has junk (in what ever form). That comment is very much ad-hominem.

Lets (hypothetically speaking) consider, I say that you belong to a particular community which has any particular negative attribute in a discussion which has nothing to do with your community, what will you call it? I will call it ad-hominem.
 
"your country". I quote you. Thanks.
Do you deny that indians are not propagating about cures dating to verdic times?
Do you deny that some president has not claimed the treatment of this virus?
Do you deny this news has not spread in india?
Do you deny that such news articles are not common?
 
Do you deny that indians are not propagating about cures dating to verdic times?
Do you deny that some president has not claimed the treatment of this virus?
Do you deny this news has not spread in india?
Do you deny that such news articles are not common?
What does India have to do with me?

Another Ad-hominem ?
 
You were implying that I belong to a country that has junk (in what ever form). That comment is very much ad-hominem.
Did I imply that?

I said
Unfortunately that junk is flooding your country at an indescribable pace!
Kindly stop playing the victim card! You did insult the OP by saying he found junk... (ad hominem) instead of talking about the topic then came and tried to divert the topic by airing an non peer reviewed article and mind you that is VERY unscientific to actually sit and argue about it!
 
I agree with antigenic shift can occur through genetic recombination. Infact that is why Pigs are called the melting pots of flu. They are ideal hosts for recombination. And infact thats how swine flu got its name. It first appeared inside pigs and jumped into humans. All known and all understandable.

What happened here is rather interesting. Though I am also trying to reproduce their results (well using bio-informatics tools like BLAST). They found new amino acid sequences which got inserted into a specific place (receptor) and those sequence were conservered, ie, they appears everywhere in the aminoacids sequences taken from different variants or samples of this new 2019 coronavirus, except when it occurs in bats. So the authors searched for the same sequences and aligned them with other viruses while looking for those viruses in which entire, 100% of the sequence occurs. ALL of them were found in the receptor regions of HIV virus.

This is why they are calling it uncanny and unlikely to happen by accident. This is not antigenic shift through genetic recombination, IMHO. Though I am not as knowledgeable in this subject.
Still not convinced. Viruses are simple organisms that mutate often and often share sequences of rna or DNA even across species, let alone subtypes.

https://blogs.plos.org/dnascience/2...ires-a-look-back-at-the-discovery-of-viruses/

"The new virus is about 88% similar in its genome sequence to those that cause SARS and MERS. That sounds like a lot, considering how similar our genomes are to those of chimps, but the effect may be amplified by the tiny size of viral genomes – 30,000 or so RNA bases compared to our 3 billion or so DNA bases."

"The ability of viruses to reproduce rapidly and their inability to repair RNA or DNA replication errors make them highly changeable and therefore adaptable. They can stay ahead of host defenses in an evolutionary arms race of sorts."

ALL of them were found in the receptor regions of HIV virus.

You also said: "Only HIV-1 is the one that comes up in all the four inserts."

Recombination can readily explain this. Confection with both viruses followed by recombination leading to a novel infectious strain that selects itself for survival because of its unique combination of characteristics. In fact, HIV1 and HIV2 are well known to splice with each other to form new recombinant forms. I'm also not a virologist but I believe the recombination of HIV1 with HIV2 has been studied and was known to result in new infective variants.

I see no reason why HIV1 and corona virus couldn't undergo some novel completely natural recombination that is preserved as the infection spreads, in a scenario where all these different viruses from different animals actually interact across species barriers.

ANY "evidence" of artificial engineering is circumstantial and there is just as much justification to declare the novel recombinant virus to be a natural occurring evolution.
 
What does India have to do with me?
You tell me, you were making it sound indian discovery was big! Overplaying it! When it isnt even big
This is what you wrote:
Indian scientists have found something else as well about this virus.... And it should bother you.

https://biorxiv-cache.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/2020.01.30.927871.full.pdf



To put it in plain language, the new Coronavirus produces proteins around itself that are not seen in ANY know Coronavirus, when checked else where they are found ONLY in HIV virus. Such kind of presence cannot happen by just luck or randomly or accident. How did this virus came into being is rather unusual and requires investigation.
Why would any random Canadian do that?
 
I see no reason why HIV1 and corona virus couldn't undergo some novel completely natural recombination that is preserved as the infection spreads, in a scenario where all these different viruses from different animals actually interact across species barriers.
That can indeed explain, if it has been documented and understood before. Splicing of different viruses. Are there know material on this? Like has HIV virus known to show such phenomenon with some totally different virus?

I ask because authors claim it as "unlikely".

Why would any random Canadian do that?
Go to reddit, this particular study is being discussed quite a bit.

If I quote a German study in a thread which makes fun of Germans in an underhanded manner, then will I be German as well?
 
Well it is 2020 and Indians said they will be a superpower by now. This must be their new superpower medical cure from their superpower labs.


Jai Hind !!!!!
Jai Shri Ram ram.!!!!!!!
 
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No, but I will discredit it for making more noise than it is worth!
Well, given that you are a molecular biologist, I am sure that you will be able to explain us how the observations the author mentioned are incorrect or misrepresentation.

Kindly stop playing the victim card! You did insult the OP by saying he found junk... (ad hominem) instead of talking about the topic then came and tried to divert the topic by airing an non peer reviewed article and mind you that is VERY unscientific to actually sit and argue about it!
I did say that compare to junk news that OP has posted this discussion on a scientific work is way better. Junk was for news and it is indeed junk. Someone mentioned that the article I posted was clickbait, though the very title of this thread is a click (dare I say flame) bait in itself.

And, no, I refuse to stop highlighting the fact that you dear are indeed stereotyping and indulging in discussing and attacking the person more than what is being discussed. @jaibi I rest my case and won't answer to the posts discussing "me" rather than topic.
 
swami-chakrapani-1580477836.jpg


As the coronavirus scare runs across the world with one confirmed case in India, Hindu Mahasabha has proposed bizarre treatment for the dreaded virus infection. Swami Chakrapani Maharaj, president of Hindu Mahasabha, on Friday said cow urine and cow dung can be used for treating novel coronavirus disease. He also said that a special yagna will be performed to "kill the novel coronavirus and end its effects on the world".

"Consuming cow urine and cow dung will stop the effect of infectious coronavirus. A person who chants Om Namah Shivay and applies cow dung on body, will be saved. A special yagna ritual will soon be performed to kill coronavirus," said Chakrapani.

The World Health Organization (WHO) has declared the new coronavirus outbreak a global health emergency after the death toll in China rose to 213 on Friday, with 9,692 confirmed cases in the country's 31 provincial-level regions.

An Air India flight service will evacuate Indians stuck in the city Wuhan due to the outbreak of the virus.

The new virus, which is of the same genre as SARS which broke out in 2003, was first reported in the WHO Disease Outbreak News on January 5, 2020.

https://www.indiatvnews.com/amp/new...pani-maharaj-584736?__twitter_impression=true

Swami Chakrapani Maharaj should go to Wuhan to fight the crisis. China can surely use a helping hand.
 
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"Like has HIV virus known to show such phenomenon with some totally different virus?"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3324781/

"The process of recombination that takes place in RNA viruses corresponds to the formation of chimeric molecules from parental genomes of mixed origin. This process can occur either within a single genomic segment (in which case, it is often referred to as RNA recombination) or, for those viruses that possess segmented genomes, as exchange of entire genomic segments between viruses (FIG. 1). This exchange is usually termed reassortment. Although RNA recombination and reassortment are mechanistically very different, both require that two or more viruses infect the same host cell. "

You're right that it seems very rare but it does occur naturally (non-homologous recombination):

"findings suggest that the gene was most probably obtained fortuitously by coronavirus and was not an original part ofthe viral genome. The most likely
explanation is that this gene resulted from recombination between coronavirus and influenza C virus (67). Since there is no apparent sequence homology, aside from the HE sequence, between coronavirus and influenza C virus, the acquisition of this gene by coronavirus from influenza C virus, or vice versa, could represent nonhomologous recom- bination. The homology of the HE gene between coronavi- rus and influenza C virus was obvious only at the amino acid level, but not at the nucleotide level (67); therefore, recom- bination probably occurred between their ancestral viruses. So why do some coronaviruses lack this gene? Deletion by virtue of intramolecular recombination is a plausible expla- nation, since coronavirus genes are flanked by homologous intergenic sequences (58). An alternative possibility is that the putative recombination between coronaviruses and in- fluenza C virus occurred after speciation of coronaviruses; the divergence of the HE gene then may have occurred rapidly since this is a nonessential gene. "

Also, in theory at least, the HIV or coronavirus don't necessarily need to splice directly into each other.

One of them may have infected a host animal cell and then inserted its genome, and that infected cell itself could have been exposed to the other virus, integrating parts of its genome at that exact point in disease evolution, causing the hybrid form to be replicated. This is just my speculation though.

Overall, it's unusual but seems more plausible as a natural evolutionary event than artificial.
 
"Like has HIV virus known to show such phenomenon with some totally different virus?"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3324781/

"The process of recombination that takes place in RNA viruses corresponds to the formation of chimeric molecules from parental genomes of mixed origin. This process can occur either within a single genomic segment (in which case, it is often referred to as RNA recombination) or, for those viruses that possess segmented genomes, as exchange of entire genomic segments between viruses (FIG. 1). This exchange is usually termed reassortment. Although RNA recombination and reassortment are mechanistically very different, both require that two or more viruses infect the same host cell. "

You're right that it seems very rare but it does occur naturally (non-homologous recombination):

"findings suggest that the gene was most probably obtained fortuitously by coronavirus and was not an original part ofthe viral genome. The most likely
explanation is that this gene resulted from recombination between coronavirus and influenza C virus (67). Since there is no apparent sequence homology, aside from the HE sequence, between coronavirus and influenza C virus, the acquisition of this gene by coronavirus from influenza C virus, or vice versa, could represent nonhomologous recom- bination. The homology of the HE gene between coronavi- rus and influenza C virus was obvious only at the amino acid level, but not at the nucleotide level (67); therefore, recom- bination probably occurred between their ancestral viruses. So why do some coronaviruses lack this gene? Deletion by virtue of intramolecular recombination is a plausible expla- nation, since coronavirus genes are flanked by homologous intergenic sequences (58). An alternative possibility is that the putative recombination between coronaviruses and in- fluenza C virus occurred after speciation of coronaviruses; the divergence of the HE gene then may have occurred rapidly since this is a nonessential gene. "

Also, in theory at least, the HIV or coronavirus don't necessarily need to splice directly into each other.

One of them may have infected a host animal cell and then inserted its genome, and that infected cell itself could have been exposed to the other virus, integrating parts of its genome at that exact point in disease evolution, causing the hybrid form to be replicated. This is just my speculation though.

Overall, it's unusual but seems more plausible as a natural evolutionary event than artificial.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK8439/

Viral recombination occurs when viruses of two different parent strains coinfect the same host cell and interact during replication to generate virus progeny that have some genes from both parents. Recombination generally occurs between members of the same virus type (e.g., between two influenza viruses or between two herpes simplex viruses). Two mechanisms of recombination have been observed for viruses: independent assortment and incomplete linkage. Either mechanism can produce new viral serotypes or viruses with altered virulence.

If this is indeed a recombination between different virus types, then it will be unusual to say the least.
 

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