Converting Old warplanes into armed or reconnaissance drones

[Tair-Lahoti]

There were rumors that Azerbaijan used its world war era planes to collect data across the border including finding defence systems, radars and Armoured movement.
Is it possible to convert old planes into drones and pilotless jets?
Can Pakistan convert its F7s and F7PGs into drones with Turkish or Chinese help?
Will it will be fruitfull to do that or it will just be waste of resources?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1322037789798539264

 

[CrazyZ]

I have advocated for this for some time, using the Mirage 3/5. I read some report that Vietnam may do this with old mig-21's. All depends on the condition of the air frames and engines. Conversion costs vs buying a larger number of smaller stealthier UAV's (like TB2 or Wing Loong) may not be worth it. I have not crunched the numbers. AN2 is very cheap.. made mostly of cloth, probably worth it for that.

 

[Tair-Lahoti]

I have advocated for this for some time, using the Mirage 3/5. I read some report that Vietnam may do this with old mig-21's. All depends on the condition of the air frames and engines. Conversion costs vs buying a larger number of smaller stealthier UAV's (like TB2 or Wing Loong) may not be worth it. I have not crunched the numbers. AN2 is very cheap.. made mostly of cloth, probably worth it for that.

AN2?

 

[CrazyZ]

AN2?

Old soviet utility plane. Azeri's are using it like a UAV/decoy.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Just imagine some one here was advocating that PAF should buy them for its transport fleet

 

[zectech]

Iranian Air Defense Systems

Anti Aire Defense System are proven to be weak and useless against modern threats such as : Stealth Cruise Missiles UCAV Drone Long Rang Guided Bomb and Missiles Fast Projectile ( such as Super fast Cruise missiles , Hypersonic missiles ) Modern Ballistics Missiles ... We shouldn't spend our...

defence.pk

Inexpensive planes can be used against 5th gen fighters. Either in swarms or making them 6th gen fighters in commanding near supersonic drones.

Back years ago on PDF, somebody said China needs to retire those J-7, they are useless. I knew they are far from useless. You want to have more fighters than the enemy has missiles in a combat situation. 5th gen fighters in full stealth have limited missiles until the advent of stealth missiles. Have your attacker use up those and have your light old faster jets engage in dogfights with F-35s. If you have hundreds of targets in old planes, you can swarm the attackers. Within the attack, you have your newer SU-30s and other aircraft like Mig-35s to aid in any BVR assistance.

Anything that can match your enemy's speed and engage in close range combat is useful.

You need a mixture of old and new, so your enemy has difficulty wargaming with too many possibilities.

Many WWII era fighters can be used in CAS.

20 F-35s aren't designed to fight faster 200-500 Mig 21s. Unless you have 6th generation fighter commanding drones at the BVR combat, your 200 Mig 21s are going to be depleted. They are useful, however you have to develop a strategy to keep them in tact. Simply having older planes is not going to cut it, you have to incorporate them in an overall strategy.

You main enemy in any warfare is EW. Getting close enough for dogfights is a way to mitigate EW.

 

[That Guy]

This isn't new, a lot of air forces do that.

The US converts old f-16s to become target drones, called QF-16s.

First Boeing QF-16 Aerial Target Arrives at Tyndall Air Force Base | UST

The first Boeing QF-16 aerial target training system has arrived at Florida’s Tyndall Air Force Base in preparation for U.S....

www.unmannedsystemstechnology.com

Such converted drones aren't really meant for combat, or even surveillance, but rather fodder for either training and testing, or use against enemy air defenses. They have limited use, as they were never originally designed to be used as unmanned aircraft.

 

[Marker]

An interesting topic.

To convert a manned jet aircraft into an UAV for surveillance and EW/ECM or armed drone, following major areas will need modifications:

1. Aircraft flight controls
2. Aircraft engine controls
3. Aircraft surveillance and EW/ECM
4. Aircraft weapon delivery system and computers.
5. Aircraft landing gear operations

Ignoring the cost of research and development for this upgradation/modification on any particular aircraft, we can proceed to discuss the type and extent of modification on such aircraft to convert it into armed/surveillance drone.

 

[Tair-Lahoti]

To get these jets into flying, and dying, shape, Air Force engineers resurrect old F-16s from a 2,600-acre boneyard in Arizona. Then Boeing rigs them with $1.9 million in Drone Peculiar Equipment, including an automatic flight system that triggers takeoffs and landings at the press of a button. Soon they're condemned to Tyndall's “death row” runway. They perform elaborate maneuvers (barrel rolls, S turns), mimicking what enemies might do in battle, until they're shot down and sink to the bottom of the ocean, the wreckage reincarnated as a reeflike hangout for sharks and barracudas. (Ground control can also blow up any erratic drone by remotely detonating the plane's AIM-9 warhead.) The boneyard has enough F-16s to keep Boatright busy for the next decade, and maybe even fuel a robot war. In March, Air Force assistant secretary Will Roper cited QF-16s as a potential host for a machine learning program called Skyborg. That AI aims to turn drones into wingmen capable of fighting and hurling bombs alongside humans piloting the most advanced stealth aircraft by 2023.

What It Takes to Turn a Vintage F-16 Into a Drone

The US Air Force is resurrecting old fighter jets from a boneyard in Arizona as moving targets for live-fire exercises in the Gulf of Mexico.

www.wired.com

https://subscribe.wired.com/subscribe/splits/wired/WIR_FAILSAFE?source=HCL_WIR_MPU_FAILSAFE_0

This isn't new, a lot of air forces do that.

The US converts old f-16s to become target drones, called QF-16s.

First Boeing QF-16 Aerial Target Arrives at Tyndall Air Force Base | UST

The first Boeing QF-16 aerial target training system has arrived at Florida’s Tyndall Air Force Base in preparation for U.S....

www.unmannedsystemstechnology.com

Such converted drones aren't really meant for combat, or even surveillance, but rather fodder for either training and testing, or use against enemy air defenses. They have limited use, as they were never originally designed to be used as unmanned aircraft.

When you think of drones that will likely be used in a conflict between two advanced militaries, you usually imagine brand new, unmanned stealth jets. But China appears to be taking a different approach. It’s converting its ancient Shenyang J-6 fighters — copies of the Soviet Union’s 1950s-vintage MiG-19, the world’s first operational supersonic fighter — into unmanned jets. (Yes, China is also developing brand new drones.)

The U.S. has used retired fighters as unmanned target practice drones for decades. However, China plans to use the old fighters as ground attack jets. We’ve been hearing about the unmanned J-6 project for a long time now. What’s caught people’s attention is that China has apparently massed dozens of the jets at airbases in Fujilan province, close to, you guessed it, Taiwan.

further opined:

Converting manned fighters into drones isn’t hard. The U.S. even converted B-17s Flying Fortress into unmanned plane to collected radiation samples from the air over the nuclear blasts during the Operations Crossroads nuclear bomb tests in 1946. In the case of the Air Force’s QF-4 Phantom drones, the jets’ guns are removed and black boxes connected to the flight control systems are installed in the vacant gun compartments — allowing ground operators to control the planes.

Meet China's new-old killer drones

When you think of drones that will likely be used in a conflict between two advanced militaries, you usually imagine brand new, unmanned stealth jets.…

foreignpolicy.com

 

[volatile]

My guts tells me some A5 are loaded with Nuclear Missile Just in case

 

[Mav3rick]

Perhaps it is the cost to covert and maintain these old retired machines that is prohibitive rather then the will or way. Imagine how many drones China can produce in the cost it takes to convert a single F-6 into a remote flying machine/drone and then imagine the hours that the new drones can put in service against the hours that the retired F-6 can.

 

[Tair-Lahoti]

Perhaps it is the cost to covert and maintain these old retired machines that is prohibitive rather then the will or way. Imagine how many drones China can produce in the cost it takes to convert a single F-6 into a remote flying machine/drone and then imagine the hours that the new drones can put in service against the hours that the retired F-6 can.

cost to performance ratio does matter, How many drones can fly super sonic, Engage air defenses etc.

 

[Mav3rick]

cost to performance ratio does matter, How many drones can fly super sonic, Engage air defenses etc.

Please look it up, there is no shortage of what drones can do, drones are being manufactured to outperform manned Jets in all aspects and will be outperforming manned Jets in the very near future, if not already.

 

[The Accountant]

There were rumors that Azerbaijan used its world war era planes to collect data across the border including finding defence systems, radars and Armoured movement.
Is it possible to convert old planes into drones and pilotless jets?
Can Pakistan convert its F7s and F7PGs into drones with Turkish or Chinese help?
Will it will be fruitfull to do that or it will just be waste of resources?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1322037789798539264

Its not just capability but cost of capability. The money and efforts required to convert f7pgs or mirrages into a drone and then per hour operational cost is much higher than the benefits they offer.

What are the objectives of drone? To provide a low cost long duration machine that can provide intel or having low observability can go close to enemy positions.

Converting a fighter jet offer nothing of those unless u r talking about 6th generation aircraft concepts.

Manufacturing and operating a new drone will be muchh more cheaper then converting outdated aircrafts into drones

 

[khansaheeb]

There were rumors that Azerbaijan used its world war era planes to collect data across the border including finding defence systems, radars and Armoured movement.
Is it possible to convert old planes into drones and pilotless jets?
Can Pakistan convert its F7s and F7PGs into drones with Turkish or Chinese help?
Will it will be fruitfull to do that or it will just be waste of resources?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1322037789798539264

Nah, we need to look at what any potential adversary has and build/buy to counter that threat. Nobbling old planes is not a good idea no matter how cheap and tempting it is. We need to send the old planes to the aircraft museum and build to our own requirements the most advance drones possible. Hyper speed ,hyper height and outer space. When the mind has a focus anything is possible.