Conversations With A Muslim Lady from Delhi

[aryan2007]

RR, you are right. If an employer was handed an job application from a Muslim and a upper caste Hindu, with no other data available other than his name, he would choose the upper caste Hindu.

Why?

Its called hedging your bets.

This is an unfortunate consequence of the fact that the employer
wants to choose the best man for the job. In the absence of sufficient data, he makes assumptions based on his past experiences. The reservation system doesn't help either, where a muslim applicant might have got his degree as a reserved candidate, thus reducing the value of his degree (there is no way of knowing whether a graduate has availed of reservation or not)

It is a sad outcome of the present conditions in society. Such things are common in most countries with different social groups that occupy different strata.

Do you think HR managers are clued into castes??
It all boils down to abilities..
As I said the Muslims generally don't study.. the few who do make it...
this year only IT co,s hired what almost 300,000+ student or something...
every graduate who passed got a job..

If you actually look at the Sikh community, girls are generally more educated than guys.. guys drop out to join their family business... etc..

1 These scholars draw upon economic theories that argue that discriminatory
hiring may be economically rational in situations where employers have few ways for evaluating the quality of job applicants. Employers therefore undertake statistical discrimination, using past experiences with employees from certain groups as a basis for selecting individuals [cf Arrow 1972, 1998]. This approach differs from sociological theories, reviewed below, that emphasise discrimination as an outcome of competition
for jobs among status groups.


The only practical solution is for the muslim applicants to send a nicely written cover letter and resume. I don't think the employer will hesitate to employ the muslim if he is favourably impressed with him.

Also, such things will disappear with time, as the status of muslims rises in society.

What? Nah mate.. look at Azim Premji's company he is a Muslim with a compan y in a Muslim dominated area in south India..
Most of his employees are graduates from top institutes, and he has a fewer number of Muslims because... they are not graduate from top institutes.. simple.. reserved or not...

How many Muslims are there in IIT and IIM and AIIMS??? I'd say not more than a couple of dozen.. (they are transparent)
does this mean Muslims are unintelligent nope they just don't want to study..

 

[aryan2007]

Go learn some Human Resource Management (HMR), and you will see that a social cast rise in society doesn't further ones application to get an approval, I don't have time to teach kids, but personal favors, Sex, Race, Relgion, etc, all plays a role in deciding an applicant. Till, this day in the US alone there are racial discrimination when hiring, and I have seen it with my own eyes, with well educated and poorly educated people, including the so called Buddy-Buddy system.

On a resume the average time is 1-20 secs an employer will look at, and pick up facts, and its no guarantee it will be a racial-free choice.

Buddy-buddy system, sifarish etc. are allright.. but when you are hiring in droves you don't have time to look at ...
India is still falling short on quality labour.. Most call centres resort to having American staff during hours of crisis...


Lemme give you a fact
at the time of paritition in Delhi.. an avg Muslim was much richer than an avg Sikh who had just come from W. Punjab with nothing in his hand.. today you see Sikhs are the richest community of Delhi and Muslims the poorest..
this inspite of riots, discrimination against teh sikhs by Nehru and Indira Gandhi...
what do you call it? I call it the desire to succeed..
Look at UK an avg Indian is richer than an avg Pakistani.. and Indians are an example of model minority.. what do you say to all this???

 

[aryan2007]

Way to go ....

This guy will go to any lenghts to prove that there is no descrimination in India related to Minorities.

Pops up a new thread to prove me Wrong...

You feel green for me ...

I feel nothing for you.. off you go..

 

[aryan2007]

It's not called hedging your bets. It's called religious discrimination.

Kinda sorta agree with you

Two candidates. Exactly the same origin, exactly the same application.. the Hindu one is 3 times as likely to get it as the Muslim..that's not racial discrimination..it's religious discrimination.

On same abilities it all boils down to the HR manager.. if he she is a muslim the job in all probs will go to a Muslim... so it works both ways...

Now why should religion matter? It's part of a wider discrimination and anti Muslim mentality that's become embedded in Bharati society.

I think it is their in **** society also.. you guys have percentage wise an equal number of Muslims.. Indian Muslims richest are way way richer than Pakistani Muslism..
and the status of Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan is a no-brainer... in Lahore they didn't even have a crematorium till recently..


Anti-Muslim mentality is not something which you are born with nor is taught to you but it is a question of your experiences..

there is an anti-Punjabi Bias in Mumbai but Punjabis have succeeded, anti-Sindhi bias all over India Sindhis are prospering., anti-Gujarati bias in Mumbai again they are the most powerful community their
Native Mumbaikars are the poorest..
Muslims are the biggest gangsters..

Why should religion be important in selecting the right man for the job?

It should not be.. but often it depends on person to person etc.. I have a strict bias in employong/hiring Biharis.. irresp of their religion...

Much the same way an Ahmaddiya is discriminated by a mainstream Muslims, a Sunni in Iran, a Shia in Saudi Arabia, a Sikh in south INdina, a SOuth INdian Brahmin in Punjab... etc

there is a bias and the only way of overcoming it is by preservance and extra qualifications and by working hard to set an example...

The reservation system is necessary because of this discrimination.

What is the point of a reservation system ? since 60 years.. Muslims have not been educated.. Incompetent Dalits irresp of religion are chosen.. it has failed..
there should only be meritocracy and let those who are unable to make it.. miss out sorry...

Yes, it does occur elsewhere. But we're talking of India.

so in that context India is not too bad..
not like Arab discrimination or White discrimination..\

Well, yes. A higher standard is needed to overcome the discriminatory hurdles.

Well I think if the Muslim community sets to task it will not be impossible..
For eg even in Punjab..(the state with a miniscule Muslim Population) a Muslim is an MP.. where the person deserves it he will achieve it simple..
Look at the Indian team.. there are so many muslim players. Munaf, Irfan, zaheer, wasim... are they chosen because of their religion or because of their abilities??/

I don't believe it will disappear. It might be reduced. But the BJP government introduced lots of anti Muslim psychology into Bharati society. I think it's got worse. The outlook isn't good.

I think BJP is a wonderful party for India. it is the Sangh and VHP that act spoilsport..
Bias in India will always remain.. "a North Indian Brahmin will be discriminated against in South by a South Indian..etc.. " the problem with Muslims is they have no regional affliation hence they are a bit worse off.. but if they set to task they can achieve.. Today in cricket, movies, Pharma.. Muslims are ruling the roost.. and Azim Premji should be a role model not OBL etc..

 

[roadrunner]

As I said the Muslims generally don't study..

This is an extremely fascist remark made out of denial of a problem. I've quoted the studies that show a statistically PROVEN discrimination exists in Bharat.. You're saying they don't study....I quoted from a study where both candidates were EQUALLY qualified, and Muslims were the least likely to get a job, solely based on their name. It's pure, proven religious discrimination, you're trying to justify.

 

[aryan2007]

You can't really point towards the Shahrukh Khans and the Presidents and the Landlords and say look they are so happy.

"She didn't require any recommendation from any influential person".

From her description she herself is quite influential.

The issue here is .. these guys worked hard and made it.. the one's who go around having Madrasa education with wife/wives in Burkhas and a dozen kids.. are not qualified to get a job... but if they are competent in business they will but looking at their lifestyle I can assume they wont...

With that said, try to even get a conversation out of a Gujarati wealthy Muslim. I did it once. Not very many nice words were used in India's description.

try doing that with a Sikh family who lost a loved one in 1984..

 

[roadrunner]

I think BJP is a wonderful party for India. it is the Sangh and VHP that act spoilsport..

Today in cricket, movies, Pharma.. Muslims are ruling the roost.. and Azim Premji should be a role model not OBL etc..

pharma? any proof of this..again, the public roles, such as cricket, and movies, you do get Muslim figureheads in India. It's the common Muslim Indian that is discriminated against.

 

[aryan2007]

pharma? any proof of this..

Himalaya Healthcare
Wockhardt
Cipla

the 3 top companies are owned by Muslims

again, the public roles, such as cricket, and movies, you do get Muslim figureheads in India. It's the common Muslim Indian that is discriminated against.

a common Indian is no better than a common Muslim Indian...
a Dalit Hindu goes through Hell in a rural area/cow belt.. a dalit Muslim is no better off..

 

[roadrunner]

Himalaya Healthcare
Wockhardt
Cipla

the 3 top companies are owned by Muslims

So what if they're owned by Muslims? This just goes to show, that these Muslims have good business sense and have managed to create bigger and better companies than any other competitors.

It's the jobs within those companies that's important. I bet that the workforce in those Muslim companies based more on merit, rather than on just picking out all the Hindus, and that's one reason that they're doing better. Better bisiness philosophy.

Again, this does not show Muslims are being helped by the education/job system in India. It just shows, they have better business brains than the Hindus in India.

You'll have to look at the allocation of jobs. Discrimination can be rife against Muslims, but some Muslims might be able to do better due to better business orientation. It does not prove that they are not discriminated against hugely in India. A lot of their clients might even be outside of India (and probably are).

a common Indian is no better than a common Muslim Indian...
a Dalit Hindu goes through Hell in a rural area/cow belt.. a dalit Muslim is no better off..

Common Indian Muslims are treated worse than common Hindu Dalits. Twice as worse in fact.

 

[Awesome]

The issue here is .. these guys worked hard and made it.. the one's who go around having Madrasa education with wife/wives in Burkhas and a dozen kids.. are not qualified to get a job... but if they are competent in business they will but looking at their lifestyle I can assume they wont...

Yaar, it says there her father was an affluent landlord. They were probably this rich hundreds of years ago.

You can't break your problem down with these petty things. It seems like you are not even ready to admit the fundamental things that are bothering the Indian Muslims.

 

[aryan2007]

So what if they're owned by Muslims? This just goes to show, that these Muslims have good business sense and have managed to create bigger and better companies than any other competitors.

exactly.. if Muslims are better and smarter in business and education then they will get jobs and own businesses...

BTW most Sikhs, Parsis have their own businesses...

It's the jobs within those companies that's important. I bet that the workforce in those Muslim companies based more on merit, rather than on just picking out all the Hindus, and that's one reason that they're doing better. Better bisiness philosophy.

that is why all the companies are doing better they are capitalist they don't care whether you are a muslim or not.. honestly if a Muslim is my biggest buyer then I will do everything to please him... or if a Muslim is selling me cheaper I will buy from him..
CAPITALISM

whereas the govt sucks they discriminate against all non-Hindus..
IAS is the forte of Biharis... there are no sikhs, muslims or Punjabis in the IAS..
Govt is the stronghold of all cow belt politicians by virtue of their numbers..

Again, this does not show Muslims are being helped by the education/job system in India. It just shows, they have better business brains than the Hindus in India.

Man u r full of hate..
it just shows Muslims who are smart, have business acumen and are willing to work towards their goals make it..

You'll have to look at the allocation of jobs. Discrimination can be rife against Muslims, but some Muslims might be able to do better due to better business orientation. It does not prove that they are not discriminated against hugely in India. A lot of their clients might even be outside of India (and probably are).

No they are not.. In a pvt company looking to make profit they will go with anyone who helps em make money..

Common Indian Muslims are treated worse than common Hindu Dalits. Twice as worse in fact.

sitting in Pakistan with an anti-Hindu, Indian bias.. I can expect you to say something else.. but I am saying they are both going through hell..
Dalit Muslims are discriminated by Ashraful etc. besides others
Dalit Hindus by Brahmins and Kshatriyas etc.besides others

~Dalit HIndus are 25% of the population of Hindus
~Dalit MUslims are 75% of the populaion of Muslims..

Look at the state of Choora, CHamar Muslims in Pakistan..and how Jatt Muslims discriminate against them.. something similiar happens in India.. now instead of Jatt Muslims add jatt sikhs and Hindus in the situation.. and this pisses you off..

 

[aryan2007]

Yaar, it says there her father was an affluent landlord. They were probably this rich hundreds of years ago.

My family were landlords.. we lost our lands..acc.to most Pakistanis sikhs want Khalistan.. how the hell are we progressing???

You can't break your problem down with these petty things. It seems like you are not even ready to admit the fundamental things that are bothering the Indian Muslims.

Yaar.. see I am not blaming Muslims totally for their issues but it is not something they can't overcome..
Not like Arabs who openly discriminate or the Malay who do it against Tamils..

Most Brahmins get along fabulously well with Pathans as they both oppress their dalit counterparts..

the issue is imagine that Muslims are mostly from low castes and they have a huge wall to sormount.. how many Dalit Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus are there in the top 10000 list of India ... I bet none.. they have reservations etc. but the society is like that... Look at Mayawati is a Mochi Dalit.. what is she doing for the dalit cause nothing... she is just making more money by appealing to the passions of the dalits...

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

I feel nothing for you.. off you go..

How much time you spent to dig such a story out, a stupid propaganda approach my you Indians to prove that there is no discrimination in India but dude the fact is fact, all the Muslims, Sikhs and Christians have faced discrimination and they know the true face of your so called secularism and equal rights BS.

 

[aryan2007]

How much time you spent to dig such a story out, a stupid propaganda approach my you Indians to prove that there is no discrimination in India but dude the fact is fact, all the Muslims, Sikhs and Christians have faced discrimination and they know the true face of your so called secularism and equal rights BS.

I'm a sikh nuf said
I discriminate against certain people.. like the Biharis, rickshaw walla, prostitutes etc..

 

[UnitedPak]

I'm a sikh nuf said
I discriminate against certain people.. like the Biharis, rickshaw walla, prostitutes etc..

Well, now I know where I know you from. You were a member of Iranian defence forum who was banned for being anti muslim and anti Pakistan, right?

Do you wish me to quote the disgusting comments you made against Jinnah and Muhammed bin Qasim?

I dont know what you are trying to achieve on these forums, but Pakistan was not created for religious reasons only. The provinces of Pakistan have almost always been separate from India, and the British India you are longing for could never have existed. Please try to face that.

I know you have strong feelings on the partition of Punjab, but thats an issue between Punjabis, Indians as a whole dont come into this, neither does Islam.
Indians love to rant about how Muslims are happy in India, and Pakistan should be destroyed. Flawed reasoning, but for Indians who barely know anything about Pakistan I dont blame them.