Congress turns against Pakistan

[toxic_pus]

No, it was WoT that has brought the region where it is. Not what your delusional fantasies say.

Nobody said it better than Sir Walter Scott:

Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When we practice to deceive.

*sight*

 

[SMC]

Can you provide something factual that counters what I said rather than rhetoric?

 

[gubbi]

The denial and ignorance is coming from you.

Pakistan didn't create or support Al Qaeda. In fact US did. And where the region finds it self in is due to that and WoT. A senseless war for which Pakistan was hardly a reason for.

Is that selective amnesia? Dude, I am not the one who is in denial. Read and understand facts. You really need a lesson about Pakistan's role in creating, harboring and nourishing Afghan mujaheedin who subsequently became today's Taliban. AQ was not a creation of Pakistan. No one ever credits AQ to Pakistan - be thankful for THAT! But then again, Taliban offered AQ sanctuary in Afghanistan, under the very watch of ISI.

WoT is NOT the root cause for Pakistan's mess. It goes far beyond that, back to the days when Durrand line was hotly contested by Afghanistan and Pakistan. Your leaders have always lack vision and integrity. You are paying the price for their short sighted decisions decades ago. As for the repercussions of some decisions make in recent times, only time will tell.

FYI, I believe that Mush throwing his lot with US will pay handsomely, hopefully, in the future for Pakistan.

And stop calling Indians as deluded and what not. Given the events unfolding on a daily basis and the reaction of many Pakistanis, we can easily use more colorful and choicy words to describe your state. Be grateful that we use only "willful denial" to describe your attitude.

 

[SMC]

Is that selective amnesia? Dude, I am not the one who is in denial. Read and understand facts. You really need a lesson about Pakistan's role in creating, harboring and nourishing Afghan mujaheedin who subsequently became today's Taliban. AQ was not a creation of Pakistan. No one ever credits AQ to Pakistan - be thankful for THAT! But then again, Taliban offered AQ sanctuary in Afghanistan, under the very watch of ISI.

WoT is NOT the root cause for Pakistan's mess. It goes far beyond that, back to the days when Durrand line was hotly contested by Afghanistan and Pakistan. Your leaders have always lack vision and integrity. You are paying the price for their short sighted decisions decades ago. As for the repercussions of some decisions make in recent times, only time will tell.

FYI, I believe that Mush throwing his lot with US will pay handsomely, hopefully, in the future for Pakistan.

And stop calling Indians as deluded and what not. Given the events unfolding on a daily basis and the reaction of many Pakistanis, we can easily use more colorful and choicy words to describe your state. Be grateful that we use only "willful denial" to describe your attitude.

I added something to my preivous post which was important.

Let me cut it out for you. Taliban was ready to hand over OBL, provided that US gives them evidence that OBL was behind the 9/11 attacks. Bush acting arrogant, saying something like "We know he was involved, we don't need to prove that" and started a senseless war. Taliban didn't like OBL very much anyway, so they would've handed him over had the US provided the proof. That senseless decision by the US is what has led to where the region is today, not what you deluded bharatis want to delude yourself into believing.

The very fact that Al Qaeda carried out the attacks, and it had little to do with Pakistan, flies in the face of the BS the bharatis vomit every now and then.

Now you talk about Pakistan's role in creating Afghan Mujhaideen? Guess who was their chief financier? Guess who funded vast amounts of weapons into the region? And you say that I have selective amnesia. But nevertheless, even if we supported Afghan Mujhaideen, the fact that the Taliban was willing to hand over OBL negates that.

That's the best link you can find for Pakistan's role in 9/11, and even that you have modified that to make yourself believe the nonsense that comes out.

I realize that this flies in the face of 10 years of propaganda, nonsense spewed, facts twisted, parallel universes created etc, by bharatis, but this is how it is.

As for calling Indians deluded, I am gonna say it how it is. It's a delusion, end of the story. Bharatis oversimplify the facts to suit their worldview, and then construct their own narrative which is far off from the reality. You call us names when you say we do the same, I am gonna do the same to you.

 

[gubbi]

Let me cut it out for you. Taliban was ready to hand over OBL, provided that US gives them evidence that OBL was behind the 9/11 attacks. Bush acting arrogant, saying something like "We know he was involved, we don't need to prove that" and started a senseless war. Taliban didn't like OBL very much anyway, so they would've handed him over had the US provided the proof. That senseless decision by the US is what has led to where the region is today, not what you deluded bharatis want to delude yourself into believing.

You've got to be fracking kidding me!! If the Taliban hated OBL, why or what were they doing giving hi shelter in the first place? If they didnt like him then why did they deny US access to OBL? You think Taliban was right in interfering between US and OBL's AQ? You think US started this war before even providing proof?

You seem to have forgotten that US had evidence of OBL's involvement in multiple embassy bombings in Africa, the USS Cole bombing in Yemen and they had pieced together links between those hijackers and OBL. US was asking for OBL even before 9/11 happened. In 1998, OBL was in Afghanistan under the protection of Taliban. Taliban didnt ask for proof. They simply rejected US requests.

You think that people who run the world's most powerful country are idiots? You thin that those who run things here are stupid to go after Taliban without any proof? Those very people who had invited Taliban before for talks but the taliban representative ended up berating his hosts? Who is being delusional here?

You, Mr., clearly have no idea of what is real and what is not. You just want to believe what you want. It was the decision of Pakistan to indulge in a promiscuous unholy matrimony (pun intended) with Mujaheedin and later Taliban that created this black hole for Pakistan. Like they say, Karma is a beach!

 

[SMC]

So let's see what's real and what's not real. You'll soon find out that you're the one that has made yourself believe what you want and have no idea of what's real and not.

You say that If Taliban hated OBL why were they sheltering them in the first place? Well multiple documentries in US, including CNN, have already stated that Taliban didn't like OBL. Just because they don't like him doesn't mean they will ncessarily remove him from Afghanistan. FACT: They were ready to hand him over. That's what's real, not what you 'think' is real based on circumstantial arguments.

Second, you say why Taliban denied access to OBL? Because US didn't provide them evidence that OBL was behind 9/11. Simple as that. I already quoted Bush's words.

Third, you talk about US having evidence of OBL's involvement in Africa, etc. That doesn't prove OBL was involvement in 9/11. Again, have a look at what's real and what's not.

Now you say that why would ask Taliban for OBL without evidence? Well they did. Believe it or not, look at Bush's own words. Why they would do that? I don't know, but the fact is that they did. Once it is clear that they did, the why question is something that comes second. Circumstantial arguments you're coming up isn't what's real, the facts are.

And as I said, I realize that this flies in the face of 10 years of propaganda, nonsense spewed, facts twisted, parallel universes created etc, by bharatis, but this is how it is.

The facts remain that Taliban was ready to hand over OBL if US gave them evidence. But they didn't. And that's what has lead the region to where it is.

 

[gubbi]

S
The facts remain that Taliban was ready to hand over OBL if US gave them evidence. But they didn't. And that's what has lead the region to where it is.

Bull Shyte! You sir, have no idea what you are talking about. You are saying what you want to believe in, and not the facts. So be it. Lol at Taliban was ready to hand over OBL. Delusions!

We Bharatis have nothing to loose, its your country which is paying a price for its foolies committed decades ago. Its your country which is at the receiving end and will remain so for a long time to come to pay for foolies committed by your present leadership. Paytime. Thanks to 'wilfull denial' by Pakistanis like you.

 

[somebozo]

Pakistan suspected of retaliating after US raid

By SEBASTIAN ABBOT | AP
Published: May 10, 2011 11:39 Updated: May 10, 2011 11:39

ISLAMABAD: Suspicion has been rising that Pakistan’s intelligence service leaked the name of the CIA chief in Islamabad to local media in anger over the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden — the second outing of an American covert operative here in six months.

The US said Monday it has no plans to pull the spy chief, but the incident is likely to exacerbate an already troubled relationship between the two countries a week after Navy SEALs in helicopters swooped down on Bin Laden’s compound without first telling the Pakistanis. The CIA and Pakistan’s spy agency have long viewed each other with suspicion, which the death of the terror leader has laid bare.

The Pakistani military and intelligence services have suffered withering criticism at home for failing to stop the US operation. Many Pakistanis view the raid as a violation of their sovereignty — even if they were pleased that Bin Laden was killed.

US officials have said they didn’t tell Pakistanis in advance because they were worried someone might tip off Bin Laden. American forces also used helicopters with radar-evading technology so the Pakistanis couldn’t track them.

Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani defended the military and intelligence services Monday, telling parliament it was “disingenuous for anyone to blame Pakistan ... for being in cahoots with Al-Qaeda.” He acknowledged his nation’s failure to track Bin Laden but said the failure wasn’t Pakistan’s alone.

“Yes, there has been an intelligence failure,” Gilani said. “It is not only ours but of all the intelligence agencies of the world.” US officials have said they see no evidence that anyone in the upper echelons of Pakistan’s military and intelligence establishment was complicit in hiding Bin Laden in Abbottabad, an army town only 35 miles from the capital. But suspicions remain, and members of Congress have threatened to cut off US aid if evidence is found.

President Barack Obama said the US believes Bin Laden must have had a support network inside Pakistan.

“But we don’t know who or what that support network was,” Obama said in an interview broadcast Sunday on CBS’ “60 Minutes.” “We don’t know whether there might have been some people inside of government, people outside of government, and that’s something that we have to investigate, and more importantly, the Pakistani government has to investigate.” Gilani proclaimed the death of Bin Laden as “indeed justice done” since Al-Qaeda has launched many attacks inside Pakistan. But he warned the US not to try a similar covert raid in the future.

“Unilateralism runs the inherent risk of serious consequences,” Gilani said. “Pakistan reserves the right to retaliate with full force. ... No one should underestimate the resolve and capability of our nation and armed forces to defend our sacred homeland.” At the same time, however, he stressed the importance of Pakistan-US ties and insisted the relationship was still strong.

“Our communications at the official and diplomatic levels with the US, during this phase, have been good, productive and straightforward,” said Gilani.

Gilani’s speech and the suspected leak of the CIA station chief’s name illustrate the balancing act that Pakistani officials seem to be trying to achieve in responding to the Bin Laden raid.

Civilian and military leaders must placate a domestic population that is upset at the US for violating the country’s sovereignty and outraged at the country’s army and intelligence agency for allowing it to happen. But they must also worry about preserving their relationship with the US, which provides billions of dollars in military and civilian aid for cooperation on the war in Afghanistan.

“Gilani’s statement and the leak of the name of the supposed CIA station chief appear to be in keeping with Islamabad’s need to maintain relations with the United States and at the same time try and counter growing US

pressure in the wake of the Osama Bin Laden killing,” said Kamran Bokhari, an analyst with STRATFOR, a private security think tank in Austin, Texas.

Even before the discovery of Bin Laden, many US

officials accused Pakistan of playing a double game by taking American aid, promising its support and then failing to target key Islamist militants wanted by the US, including Taleban chief Mullah Mohammed Omar.

But the US is in a difficult position because it is reliant on Pakistan’s help to go after Taleban militants on its territory and ships a large percentage of its non-lethal goods to its forces in Afghanistan through the country. Pakistan also allows the CIA drones to carry out missile strikes on militant targets in the border regions.

Pushing Pakistan too hard could jeopardize the relationship with the critical, if fickle, ally.

On Friday, the private TV channel ARY broadcast what it said was the current CIA station chief’s name. The Nation, a right-wing newspaper, picked up the story Saturday.

Although the name was misspelled, the publication of any alleged identity of the US spy agency’s top official in this country could be push-back from Pakistan’s powerful military and spy agency in retaliation for the American raid.

The Associated Press is not publishing the station chief’s name because he is undercover and his identity is classified. A spokesman for Pakistani intelligence declined to comment.

ARY’s news director, Mazhar Abbas, said the television station’s reporter gleaned the name from a source. He defended the broadcast, saying it was “based on fact” and rejected suggestions the name was leaked to the television channel by an official with a motive.

A US official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of discussing CIA personnel issues, told the AP that there are no plans to remove the station chief from Pakistan.

Asad Munir, a former intelligence chief with responsibility for Pakistan’s militant-populated tribal areas, said very few people know the name of the CIA station chief in Islamabad. But he said that releasing it would not necessarily jeopardize the American’s safety.

“Normally people in intelligence have cover names,” Munir said. “Only if there is a photograph to identify him could it put his life in danger.” In December, the CIA pulled its then-station chief out of Pakistan after a name alleged to be his surfaced in public and his safety was deemed at risk. That name hit the local presses after it was mentioned by a lawyer who planned a lawsuit on behalf of victims of US drone strikes in Pakistan’s tribal belt.

Suspicions have lingered that that outing was orchestrated by Pakistan’s spy agency to avenge an American lawsuit that named its chief over the 2008 terror attacks on the Indian city of Mumbai. The Pakistani agency denied leaking the CIA operative’s name.

© 2010 Arab News

 

[SMC]

Bull Shyte! You sir, have no idea what you are talking about. You are saying what you want to believe in, and not the facts. So be it. Lol at Taliban was ready to hand over OBL. Delusions!

We Bharatis have nothing to loose, its your country which is paying a price for its foolies committed decades ago. Its your country which is at the receiving end and will remain so for a long time to come to pay for foolies committed by your present leadership. Paytime. Thanks to 'wilfull denial' by Pakistanis like you.

*facepalm*

I take that as an admittance of defeat. Even the much-hyped western media (i.e. hyped by bharatis) admitted that Taliban was ready hand over OBL. This is well documented. Go do some google search and you'll be surprised. I am telling you, you're embarrasing yourself.

It's funny you're calling me deluded, because that's exactly what you are and have no idea what you're saying.

You may have nothing to lose, but your claim about this being due to Pakistan's own policy is an oversimplifcation and ultimately a delusion that you want yourself to believe, and as a result you're believing that. Because it suits your world view. But facts differ.

 

[SMC]

In fact I will make this easy for you.

Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over | World news | guardian.co.uk

They were ready to hand him over if they provided evidence.

The Taliban would be ready to discuss handing over Osama bin Laden to a neutral country if the US halted the bombing of Afghanistan, a senior Taliban official said today.

Afghanistan's deputy prime minister, Haji Abdul Kabir, told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US.

"If the Taliban is given evidence that Osama bin Laden is involved" and the bombing campaign stopped, "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country", Mr Kabir added.

And Bush's answer:

He added, "There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty".

So guess who was deluded for the past 10 years and probably will be for the rest of his life -- and didn't know what he was talking about?

This senseless decision has what lead the region to where it is, not the deluded crap that is vomitted by some bharatis every now and then.

This whole WoT could have been averted if US had some sense. Well bharatis would've probably wanted it to not be averted since it would be in their interests to do so, along with them deluding themselves into believing many things such as those stated by some bharatis in this thread, but that's how it is.

The funny thing is bharatis still have audacity to call Pakistanis deluded and conspiracy theorists despite doing the same.

There you go. This is as 'burned' as it gets. Calling others deluded but in fact being deluded yourself (that too for 10 years).

You tell Pakistanis that they need to reflect and introspect and what not. I hope you do the same. These utterly misleaded opinions are passed around and delusions become the norm.

 

[53fd]

Unfortunately, it matters very little what the Congress thinks.

 

[Jango]

proof ?? WTF

Do you even think that they hand over OBL or any one else ???

India provide all evidence against Hafiz Said to Pakistan even voice sample but he is still roaming freely

man....taliban were totally ready to hand over OBL...but said that he is a guest...and te pashtun tradition is that they dont hand over or betray someone unless he is tried bu court....and at that moment he was not convicted in court of anything...so taliban said....first give proof and trial ...then we will hand him over to you....YOU INDIANS REALLY SHOULD COME TO PAKISTAN FOR A FEW MONTHS AND LEARN THE WHOLE TALIBAN THING FROM THE REAL PERSPECTIVE....not the BBC or CNN perspective.

 

[Jango]

Bull Shyte! You sir, have no idea what you are talking about. You are saying what you want to believe in, and not the facts. So be it. Lol at Taliban was ready to hand over OBL. Delusions!

We Bharatis have nothing to loose, its your country which is paying a price for its foolies committed decades ago. Its your country which is at the receiving end and will remain so for a long time to come to pay for foolies committed by your present leadership. Paytime. Thanks to 'wilfull denial' by Pakistanis like you.

then get your sorry butt out of a pakistani forum and let us handle our country!!!

 

[Jango]

do you bhartis even know the difference between al qaeda and taliban???...and dont google it first!

 

[toxic_pus]

Can you provide something factual that counters what I said rather than rhetoric?

In a nutshell: The WoT wouldn't have happened had there been no Taliban in Afghanistan. There wouldn't have been any Taliban in Afghanistan, if Pakistan hadn't installed them in pursuit of a bizarre policy of 'strategic depth'. There wouldn't have been any Taliban itself, if Pakistan hadn't willingly fought an Amrican war in Afghanistan, all in the name of Kashmir.

WoT is just the manifestation of the flawed policy of using terrorism as tool of foreign policy. That cross is for you to bear and thats exactly what you are doing. The blowback was inevitable. 9/11 just expidited it.