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[CONGRATS] Pakistan (PakRail) Signed Huge Contract with China's CRRC Tangshan Co,. Ltd. for High Speed Passenger Trains

Probably $45-50 billion spended on CPEC as yet. ML-1 the rail line, control network, plus related bridges, underpasses should have been built under CPEC competed projects.
Brand new Train cars and engine procurement is not absolute for railways to function. Carriage factory can be upgraded to make better coaches and locomotives can be bought to be assembled locally even 2nd hand locomotives could be bought.

9 billion$ is a massive undertaking even for chinese. It will be done but will take time. Lets see what happens.
More then tracks, signals need to be modernized to avoid collisions and the train lead car; the engine should be build the same way American train engines are build; to absorb a crash with massive shock absorber in the nose.

These modified engines approx. cost double ($7 million versus $4 million) what comparable European engines cost, but the safety factor on tracks shared with freight trains minimize fatalities.

Pakistan dis buy new Engines from GE US for freight trains. They are performing really well but cost is a factor. Pakistan had a really bad experience with chinese made engines in the past. Chinese Company was even black listed.
 
9 billion$ is a massive undertaking even for chinese. It will be done but will take time. Lets see what happens.

Pakistan dis buy new Engines from GE US for freight trains. They are performing really well but cost is a factor. Pakistan had a really bad experience with chinese made engines in the past. Chinese Company was even black listed.
That’s why the engines and carriages should be inspected and tested before they are accept, no matter who the supplier is. If we have a requirement fir crash resistant engines, the Chinese could probably accommodate us. If we want to procure engines, we should be looking at the new Siemens ALC-42 being made in America, and will form the backbone of the Amtrak engine fleet for decades to come.


A lot of the problems of Pakistan railways could be solved with a signals upgrade and deficient bridges replaced in the first phase. Once freight traffic is up, and stations are upgraded and leased out to mall operators, revenue can be generated to pay for the most profitable sections of track being rebuild first and foremost, similar to how the motorways have been built.
 
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But are there TRACKS READY FOR THIS??

Broad Gauge tracks in Pakistan are naturally suited for these high speed trains, as those tracks are built on solid dry ground AFAIK. I don't know if Chinese high speed trains (not Bullet trains) use broad gauge track (probably standard gauge), but when CRRC builds these trains they can be built to Broad gauge for Pakistan. Sometimes trains can be re-gauged too. Bangladesh received meter gauge freight locomotives which they plan to re-gauge to broad gauge at some point.

One crucial point in relation to your query is that high speed trains make frequent track maintenance a must, unlike slow freight trains which can run on wavy poorly maintained track.

High speed trains typically need heavy duty track (100 Ibs. per yard or 176 net tons per mile rail - AREMA specs) installed on solid cement substrate, no ties or ballast are used.

Track geometry is also important i.e. super elevated track around wider bends.

I am seeing a lot of comments that refer to freight trains, which is a completely different animal.

This is a high speed Passenger train. The US does not have high speed trains. They have some medium speed trains (maybe 120~150 MPH around the East Coast) but most US passenger trains are slow and do not exceed 100 MPH.
 
Broad Gauge tracks in Pakistan are naturally suited for these high speed trains, as those tracks are built on solid dry ground AFAIK. I don't know if Chinese high speed trains (not Bullet trains) use broad gauge track (probably standard gauge), but when CRRC builds these trains they can be built to Broad gauge for Pakistan. Sometimes trains can be re-gauged too. Bangladesh received meter gauge freight locomotives which they plan to re-gauge to broad gauge at some point.

One crucial point in relation to your query is that high speed trains make frequent track maintenance a must, unlike slow freight trains which can run on wavy poorly maintained track.

High speed trains typically need heavy duty track (100 Ibs. per yard or 176 net tons per mile rail - AREMA specs) installed on solid cement substrate, no ties or ballast are used.

Track geometry is also important i.e. super elevated track around wider bends.

I am seeing a lot of comments that refer to freight trains, which is a completely different animal.

This is a high speed Passenger train. The US does not have high speed trains. They have some medium speed trains (maybe 120~150 MPH around the East Coast) but most US passenger trains are slow and do not exceed 100 MPH.

Thanks mate - very well explained. :tup:
 
The Contract for 230 High-Speed Passenger Trains, including 80 Economic Trains, 80 Air-Conditioned Standard Trains & 30 Lounge-Type Trains. Will run at 160km/h & uses 1,676mm wide-gauge bogie



I don't know about the types, will be updated soon after I found information about the types.
Probably CR-200J Fuxing Hao High Speed Train Series, like Laos Series (Kunming-Vientiane High Speed Train Network)
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/drea...first-bullet-train-in-south-east-asia.727187/





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This is big news! I remember about 10 yrs back at my uni, a guest lecturer who happened to be an Ex-railways minister informed us that in Pakistan we are operating the most expensive and inefficient trains! They are ancient and are much more expensive to operate and maintain then newer ones which are faster, take less fuel and need less maintenance! Our trains were so old that we had to get parts made from international market on special order that would cost us 10 times more than a modern train! So were paying premium prices to operate jack shit British era trains!

Only if our governments had made timely investments into the railway it had not become this white elephant! Hopefully the financing of this project is on easy terms and Pakistan railways becomes lean, mean and green organisation! Great news indeed that we are replacing them all!
 
FYI It's not freight train just passenger

I am not too sure if it's a good investment...
Not worth it imo
 
FYI It's not freight train just passenger

I am not too sure if it's a good investment...
Not worth it imo

Well how else are you going to move people around safely? Not everyone can afford air travel...

Bangladesh air travel legs are very short, half hour flight to Chittagong and Sylhet mostly served by jets, yet these destinations have several trains leaving everyday, some of them are faster express trains too. Those options for middle class people need to be there.

Indians are already planning a bullet train from Mumbai to Ahmedabad, and given everything goes right, it may replace air travel in less than two years. Eventually bullet train will go past Ahmedabad to Delhi. They still might eff it up, but at least they're trying.

And in the "Bhoot ka muh pey ram naam" category - I quite admire how cheap and efficient Indian rail travel is, despite the filthy tracks. You can travel in India very cheaply by rail at all different price levels (they have special trains for poor people called Gareeb Rath). That is something to emulate in Pakistan and Bangladesh (minus the filthy tracks and stations).
 
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Well how else are you going to move people around safely? Not everyone can afford air travel...
What 9 billion $ for mere passenger travel?
That's not a very bright investment

Considering we have world class highway system, very competitive bus companies

If you started from nothing I got it but no we have decent alternatives

So a 9B$ for just passenger train line is Ott, it'll connect the country as ML-1 is main line but
It's already decently connected for passengers

Do a freight train, what's the point for passengers?
 
Mark it down people
This ML-1 project is Lahore Metro line 2.0

Bad mistake, financially irresponsible behavior
 
9 billion$ is a massive undertaking even for chinese. It will be done but will take time. Lets see what happens.

Pakistan dis buy new Engines from GE US for freight trains. They are performing really well but cost is a factor. Pakistan had a really bad experience with chinese made engines in the past. Chinese Company was even black listed.
You are not getting it bro. I am talking about priorities.
About $45-50 billion already spent on CPEC. ML-1 should have done as early harvest projects of the past 15 years.
Cement and roads were Sharifs obsession which was carried over.
 
What the need is for PR to really become efficient and a huge profit making entity for the government
1-The contract should have included to make these trains locally at carage rebuild factory islamabad. Including track laying machines.
2- The ML-1 track from karachi to islamabad is 1500km. Upgradation would be done in 3 phases as of last report to standard guage. The tracks should be built locally aswell.
3- Speed of 160km/h is reasonable for us considering the old track and time it will take upgrading it. Trains that go 300km/h and above consume double the power to run then those that run 200km. The tracks for it are also very expensive.
4- The japanese financial model should be adopted to keep these trains operating without going into loss. Japanese train companies JR west and JR east earn a big chunk of their income from not the train fares but by renting out plazas, office buildings, shops and residential buildings built near the stations owened by them. PR has huge swaths of premium land in the big cities and this brings me to my fourth point
4- station upgradation of karachi lahore Faisalabad multan rwp and islamabad, including building office tower's and shopping centers near the station on railway land. Earn huge amounts from rents to keep liss a relic of the past
5- many japanese lines(except the main tohoju shinkansen line) run at loss but JR manages to keep running them with minmum fare because they can cover the amount from rents and sales of property.
6- Upgradation of train dry ports, havalian, islamabad, lahore faisalabad multan and karachi. Literally none have gantry crane for unloading cargo containers. They dont have enough capacity to hold containers aswell. Isb railway dry port is literally half full all the time because they have defaulted or siezed containers piled up and no where else to place them.
7-Along with electrification which was included in ML-1 and doubling of track the signal and control upgrades was also mentioned in the fesibility report. Our British era signaling and track switching system will insure trains collision else
7- The ML-1 upgradation also included overhead and underpass construction of all level crossing. We all know very well how pakistan level crossings are. Hundreds die every year and also thousands of farm animals.
8- The feasibility report also included fencing entire line so wander animals and PEoPLE dont come on the electrified tracks!

If these basic things aren’t done which were mentioned in last feasibility report then sorry to say PR will still have a turbulent future ahead.
Some pictures from JR tokyo station. JR owns some of the high rise buildings you see near the station. The kyoto station is literraly like a huge shopping mall building from the outside but includes vast shops , offices and reside
266F0F1D-FA68-49F2-8424-9CFA0AEDD4D4.jpeg

6D6B9659-FA8F-4E0E-A765-C01A68FF0C64.jpeg
06EF3FF9-9E44-40BC-A94E-F8EA232E419D.jpeg
 
Well how else are you going to move people around safely? Not everyone can afford air travel...

Bangladesh air travel legs are very short, half hour flight to Chittagong and Sylhet mostly served by jets, yet these destinations have several trains leaving everyday, some of them are faster express trains too. Those options for middle class people need to be there.

Indians are already planning a bullet train from Mumbai to Ahmedabad, and given everything goes right, it may replace air travel in less than two years. Eventually bullet train will go past Ahmedabad to Delhi. They still might eff it up, but at least they're trying.

And in the "Bhoot ka muh pey ram naam" category - I quite admire how cheap and efficient Indian rail travel is, despite the filthy tracks. You can travel in India very cheaply by rail at all different price levels (they have special trains for poor people called Gareeb Rath). That is something to emulate in Pakistan and Bangladesh (minus the filthy tracks and stations).
Population density of SC
main-qimg-57abb9f3704fad417eefc61a3adcd7ff.jpeg

ML-1 route
IGs-18-1024x640.jpg

Realities of Pak are not that of other South Asian countries because of population density

That's why we already have highways and busses for passengers while we should build freights trains for economy

Other South Asian and even east Asian countries absolutely needed a great passenger train system- y'all in India, Bangladesh should absolutely have a great passenger train system as in your case- that's fiscally responsible

But for us, it shouldn't be the top most priority- making it is fiscally irresponsible behavior - maybe if we had 7-15k per Capita income

We can have that luxury but not now, passenger trains should be decent not relics

But more importance was needed on freight trains- passengers can be handled by highways, buses, cars etc
 
This is big news! I remember about 10 yrs back at my uni, a guest lecturer who happened to be an Ex-railways minister informed us that in Pakistan we are operating the most expensive and inefficient trains! They are ancient and are much more expensive to operate and maintain then newer ones which are faster, take less fuel and need less maintenance! Our trains were so old that we had to get parts made from international market on special order that would cost us 10 times more than a modern train! So were paying premium prices to operate jack shit British era trains!

Only if our governments had made timely investments into the railway it had not become this white elephant! Hopefully the financing of this project is on easy terms and Pakistan railways becomes lean, mean and green organisation! Great news indeed that we are replacing them all!

At least Pakistan is building all its rail coaches itself. In Bangladesh we used to import everything from India, including Rail coaches. I think our rail minister was permanently stationed in India, getting graft daily.

Nowadays we pretty much stopped importing rolling stock and locos from India as they are much more antiquated than say, Indonesian ones. Rail coaches and Public buses are all imported from Indonesia and local Rail coach manufacturing will start again in Saidpur (close to Bihar border and most workers are in fact transplanted Biharis).

PT Inka can build whatever specs you put in, but Bangladesh Railway uneducated gadhas are yet incapable of modernizing rail coach specs which dates from British empire. The world has moved way beyond this in the last seventy years, even for low speed rail coaches.

PT Inka coach in KishoreGanj Express (MG)
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