Confessions of a non-hijabi

[Pride]

Hi,

Both---. Arabs are a good example----they have converted to islam but kept their traditional bedouin lifestyle and laws. What people call the shariah laws are basically arab / tribal / bedouin laws, traditions and customs---most of them.

You avoid what puts you in straight conflict with your religion---from your basic fundamental belief---. That is how the world has lived in peace for most of the time----.

Sir, You raised a very valid point which people tend to forget. A Religion is mostly cultural dependent and it should be treated as per the culture available. Many times religious saints and scholars made as a rule for some geographical aspect.

I remember 1 or 2 years ago people were fighting in PDF over that what is correct "Allah Hafiz" or "Khuda Hafiz". Now the proximity of Pakistan is Afghanistan/Iran which makes to ten them more of Persian effect rather than Arabian and hence it is always possible to use Khuda Hafiz but then "So Called" Clerics want to change it.

Regarding Hijaab/Niqaab/Burqa, It is very good in Arabian countries where there is so much sand and hence it save ladies from it. Not to forget even guys have such dress to avoid and sands and hence they cover body and cover their face with the cloth to avoid but then same can't be logical in Non-Arab countries. How about guys wearing long white dress like Shaikhs?

 

[CZAR]

What the hell is all this?! Some here have argued that the hijab provides security to a woman. How does that even begin to make any sense?

Why is the onus of a woman's security placed on her choice of attire? Shouldn't she feel secure, irrespective of what she's wearing? Instead of her clothes, shouldn't the focus be on perpetrators of the heinous acts and consequently, the law enforcement agencies?

Strict and brutal, legal action against perpetrators of sex-related crimes should be employed to act as a deterrent, NOT overarching "cultural" sentiments dictating what the wardrobe should look like.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

I think people are confusing many things here. Hijab is not arab culture but hijab is being practice in each culture according to interpretation of modesty based on teaching of Islam. Not all Arab culture was/is Islamic and not all non Arabic cultures are non Islamic. We know culture of Arab before Islam was different than after Islam as they used to worship different deities , women and men used to have tawaaaf of kabba with full naked and wine was in abundance, evil treatment with girls etc. After Islam many practices in Arabic culture were rejected by Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) as immoral and inhuman and even later on abdul wahab started a movement to purify Islam as many practices in Arabic cultures were considered as part of Islam but had nothing to do with islam. In the early days of Islam arab culture had dominance in islam but when Islam spread in different part of asia, africa, europe then we have seen that Islam had its influence on different cultures and vice versa. Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) was arab and we have been told to follow his sunnah and Arabic language is also part of arab culture which we should learn for better understanding of our deen islam.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

The Best Hijab/Nikab is men's eyes. If men are pure there is no need for these dress. A Sick person can aroused by voice of women and try to seduce/rape her (even if she is wearing gunny bag). A gentelman will not affected by bikani women.

Well i agree with you that one should protect his eyes and should purify his mind and heart before anything else but you are neglecting the fact that its natural for men to get aroused when they see a beautiful half or full naked lady. If you don't feel anything even if a topless or nude girl stand in front of you then you could be probably gay but again if some girls are turn on for you because of displaying their assets then its not excuse to act on horny thought and jump on them.

Btw how many non muslim women in india wear bikini in public places ?

 

[Desert Fox]

It seem most Muslim women got trapped between two extremist groups..one group who want them to wear it and the others want them to remove it...

Not many Muslim girls wear Hijab by choice, rather because of culture or tradition.

Here in the US i have seen a lot of girls wearing hijab on the head but along with it skin tight jeans and tight T-shirts, and this is the result of forcing your daughter to wear something against her will, and that too without at least first educating her of why she should wear it. Hijab has been neglected. If a girl wears Hijab and dresses modestly in accordance to Islamic principles then let her do so by her own choice, at least she'd wear it knowing its true meaning rather than "father expects me to, or family honor, societal pressure". Its a matter between her and Allah, and only Allah can decide how he judges her.

Two very important Hadiths in regard to this topic:



The Prophet salla Allahu alayhi wasallam stated:

“There will be in the last of my Ummah, scantily dressed women, the hair on the top of their heads like a camel’s hump. Curse them, for verily they are cursed.” [At-Tabarani and Sahih Muslim]

Also:

It was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There are two types of the people of Hell that I have not seen yet: men with whips like the tails of cattle, with which they strike the people, and women who are clothed yet naked, walking with an enticing gait, with something on their heads that looks like the humps of camels, leaning to one side. They will never enter Paradise or even smell its fragrance, although its fragrance can be detected from such and such a distance.” (Narrated by Ahmad and by Muslim in al-Saheeh).

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

^Bro thats what i said in my previous reply that hijab is not just covering head and it dont serve any purpose if you wear it by force and if your heart is not accepting it and you dont understand the logic behind it. All adults should be free to make free choices. All parent can do is guide them and teach them about their religion but for that they also need to learn about Islam first

 

[Redbull]

the hair on the top of their heads like a camel’s hump

What does this mean?

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

What does this mean?

Commentary on the hadeeth; “two types of the people of Hell whom I have not seen…”

With regard to the phrase Ru’oosahunna ka asnimat il-bukht (translated here as “with something on their heads that looks like the humps of camels”), this may mean that they make their heads look bigger with veils and turbans, which are wrapped around the head, so that they look like the humps of camels. This is the well-known interpretation. Al-Maaziri said: it may be that what is meant is that they will not lower their gaze in the presence of men, rather they will look directly at them.

The complete explanation of the hadith is available on the link provided above, & I advise people to read the entire explanation instead of the paragraph I quoted.

 

[Pride]

One quick qn to advocates of Hijaab. If Islam says that every women has to wear that then why Prophet Adam & Eve were naked. In that case they should not be considered as Prophet as they dont believe in this and what about those humans who wear nothing in pre-historic age.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

One quick qn to advocates of Hijaab. If Islam says that every women has to wear that then why Prophet Adam & Eve were naked. In that case they should not be considered as Prophet as they dont believe in this and what about those humans who wear nothing in pre-historic age.

According to you when did Islam began?

You are applying concept of hijab to people of stone age and cave man. did we had any clothe at that time? or just banana leaf to cover your private parts Its like asking why we use pc when man in past never used it. I mean in stone age people have not got ay clothe, any proper shelter, no proper food and also no concept of cleaning and hygiene, lack of morality , laws of jungle etc so i did not actual get your question . so if in stone age peoples used to live like animals then we should do the same in modern day?

Secondly there are not much details about lives of hazrat adam and eve and we have no clue how they led their life because it is very very ancient and we did not had any writing materials or history record that can tell us their ways of life.

 

[zynga]

I read the Blog post on Tribune...
Its same old story....People in our country trying to find a reason for not following age old traditons which are both from Culture and Religion...as our culture to most part is effected by Islam...
In Islam ,men and women are asked to dress differently and avoid resamblance with each other..It cant be blue jeans for all...
I dont understand why women in the west are so obsessed with men that they have lost their gender's identity..On a bust weekday in the city centre,many times i cannot tell if the person walking in front of me is a man or a woman,and it not a man in high heels,its always a woman in "manly dress"...Why get so obsessed with men that you apart from having out "Appendages@ pretty much copy us to the last details...
Islam wants to give genders seperate identities ..
Hijab does give women a sense of security.....

1500 years ago, some people threw away their own age old traditions, and destroyed other peoples age old tradition. no reaon this cant change now.

 

[Luffy 500]

Verse 30 is for men, which no one seems to want to discuss...

well let me correct you here hijab is also for believing men which molvi dont stress much because they are men

I hope my brother Luffy lower his gaze before worrying about others

Yup. 100% agree. And this is compulsory for both muslim men and women, not some sort of free will thing that some slave mentality suckulars tries to point out to be. Allah(swt) first tells the men to lower his gaze and then the women is asked to wear proper hijab. Both are compulsory.

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And we we have islamic nations full of fools who cannot give the basic and fundamental rights to human being----but want to squeeze every bit of dignity in the name of religion from them.

We don't have any islamic nations now , period. Only nation that is somewhat close to implementing sharia is KSA but then too they have some unislamic practices like monarchy and a racist view about non-arab and arab marriages.

As for the bolded part your claim is unfounded just like the claims such as force conversion, force indoctrination for waering hijab etc etc.

The first promise to the muslim converts was equality for all men women and children---civil liberties were foremost as well---FARZ came later on---and FARZ as such is again a personal issue---no one can force it and none can be the enforcer.

Farz is not a personal thing. Its the foremost aspect of our faith and its very clear in the Quran. As for equality for both men and women - equality doesn't mean identicality i,e men and women are different both physiologically and psychologically and based on this criteria Allah(swt) made rules and regulation for both men and women as he knows what is best for us. Something women are given superiority to men in some aspects while men are also given superiority over women in some aspects but overall men and women are equal.
As for civil liberties , it depends what you mean by civil liberties. For muslims they should be with the fold of islam. There are clear guidelines about how far a muslim can go. There are guidelines about what you can and can not do. A muslim is a person who submits his/her will to Allah(swt) ad that being so even though Allah(swt) gave us free will, a muslim (believer) must go by the will of Allah(swt). He/she must follow the commandmants of Allah(swt).

Hazrat Umar stated---when I see someone not praying I feel like burning his house---but I cannot do it----muslims have taken a convulated translation of it---the truth to the translation is the the Caliph of islam---Hazrat Umar---did not have any authority over anyone to enforce prayer on that person and punish him or her----that is why he made that statement----that I may feel anger at those not praying---but it is not for me to say anything to them.

What kind mullah (as suckulars like to belittle and make fun of the term) even did what you mentioned in the bolded part. What kind of absurdity is that? Maybe not prayer as Allah(swt) is the one to judge. But when it come to hijab, it is there to uphold a strong social and moral fabric. It can be enforced by a Islamic state in public places.

Just like the muslims are beating those who are eating during the month of fasting in the day time---who has given them the right to be an enforcer---Allah has not and neither has his prophet---.

DO they really do that in PAK? In KSA things like these don't happen. Fasting also can not be enforced as it depends on one's iman but Hijab is again something different. You are comparing apples with oranges.

When the muslim becomes the enforcer---then in turn HE is stating that HE has become THE GOD----in a similiar manner---when muslims kill and burn humans for desecration of Qura'an or prophet Mohammad's name---it is the same thing---even though the Almighty has stated that the good name of the prophet and the protection of the Holy book and the protection of the holy place ( mosque ) is his domain---when the muslims take charge of seeking revenge----they are inadvertantly stating that God's promise is worthless---that the God does not have the power to provide justice---and the mere mortals are superior in strength to the almighty and his Propeht.

A muslim can not be the enforcer, but the islamic state can be the enforcer by sharia law. Now what can a muslim do when he is not living in an islamic state? In such a scenerio it is his/her duty to spread the message of islam and struggle for implememtation of islam in the political sphere in a manner that Allah(swt) told us to do.Violence is definitely not the way. That's what JI or muslim brotherhood tries to do. And they do that in a peaceful manner always. Its the duty of every muslim to abstain from what is wrong and also preach that to others. Allah(swt) will protect Quran till the end of time but he also gave a window of opportunity to muslims as mentioned in Surat Al-`Aşr to gain some points for his/her hereafter. A muslim can advice others about what to do and not do in light of the Quran and Sunnah. This life is a test after all. If Arabs would have enclosed Islam just to one's personal life, we in the subcontinent would have still been pagans.

Luffy 500----young man---you suffer from a sickness that majority of the muslims of this world suffer from---your condition won't change untill and unless you change---.

Yeah whatever. Being a muslim its my duty to tell the truth. If that is eqivalent to backwardness and sickness then so be it.

 

[angeldust]

Luffy 500, Mastankhan makes a lot of sense to me. You should stop your tirade and listen to what he says.

 

[Awesome]

There are many women

My fiancée tells me to.

1. Who weren't forced by the significant other. Many men even encourage their wives to take it easy with it.

Mum won’t let me go out till I wear one.

2. Who weren't forced by either parent. In fact parents who don't wear hijab also have a high probability to end up with Hijabi kids.

Pehenna chahiye (one should wear it).

3. Totally someone's opinion, just like nahi pehnna chahiye (One shouldn't wear it).

It gives me a sense of security when I go to the university. Plus, it saves me from all the trouble of doing my hair everyday.

Two totally different things

1. People in safe countries wear it too
2. Lazy people have other problems to deal with

I’m covering my satar, behen. (Satar: Prescribed Islamic method of covering one’s body)

Actually this one was important but she dismissed it since she had a bad example in front of her.

Just like in the west there are women who think the exposed butt is not nudity, others who think it is. Some think topless is okay, but full frontal is not. So why can't the Muslim woman who chooses to do this - think exposed hair is sorta adding to her nakedness?

Its not just about modesty when it comes to "being naked", I think most people in the world are uncomfortable with varying degrees of exposed bodies. There are many men too shy to take off their shirts, there are some who would roam around in locker rooms butt naked, others who at least have something on.

In some South Asian cultures, even non-Islamic ones women don't expose their tummies but women wearing Sarees do.

Among Muslims, men don't wear shorts, but in many places they do.

So everywhere else we allow for every human individual's right to be as naked as they want to be. Why does the buck stop at Hijab?

 

[Dubious]

I am a little shocked at ALL those people saying that Hijab is cultural!

Pakistan ka culture is more related to India and Persia than to Arabs! So, why would they adapt their culture and not religion? Apparently someone is confused as to where the line between the culture and religion starts and ends!

Anyhow, those who seek the truth can go search it....those who want to behave say rubbish can go ahead. I presented my points, I am not going to force it down your throats, BUT for GOD sakes do not preach what YOU THINK as Islam....Post some "cultural related" literature that states Hijab is some culture!

Secondly, Islam just means to submit to the will of ALLAH...Whoever did that was/ is and will be a Muslim.

Adam, Idris, Hud, Nuh, Ibrahim, Lut, Ismael, Ishaq, Yaukub, Yusuf, Ayub, Shoaib, Musa, Zulkifli, Dawud, Zakraiya, Illyas, Illyasa, Isa and whomever I missed all said they submit their will to ALLAH and hence, according to ARABIC they were Muslims.

Now, about Adam and Hawa being naked...EVEN THE BIBLE says they started covering themselves when they came to earth so I am not sure WHOSE book you were quoting proudly!

As for all of you attacking each other for no reason, go home truth stands out from falsehood, you are just making a fool of yourselves - This is for both who want to make women covered till they look like Mummies as well as the friend of the impotent guy who doesn't feel anything seeing a naked woman! - Even Biology says YOU SHOULD FEEL SOMETHING...It's a different story he did not behave like a typical animal and managed to control himself...But him saying he don't feel a thing means he somehow made himself impotent (Biologically speaking)