Concerning the Fall of Constantinople...

[Foinikas]

I wonder how Greek Boi will take that

Greek Boi knows it's a normal thing. For example,after the 3 day plunder,massacres and looting of Constantinople,Mehmed II ordered all people who survived,to come out of their hiding places,all people who had left to get back and that nobody would harm them. He did this,because he wanted to populate the City,it would have been pointless to conquer the Queen of Cities and leave it empty. It's logical that he wanted to govern the territories that he conquered with the least possible problems.

After witnessing real justice and how fair the Turks are Bosnians converted to Islam.

Actually:

"Several factors appear to have been behind this process. Most important was that Christianity had relatively shallow roots in Bosnia prior to the Ottoman domination. Bosnia lacked a strong Christian church organization to command a strong following—the result of a scarcity of priests and competition among the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches and schismatic Bosnian Church, which collapsed shortly before the Ottomans arrived. This left most people religiously unengaged and receptive to the appeal of Islam’s institutions. This receptiveness was aided by the development among many people of a kind of folk Christianity centered on various practices and ceremonies that was adaptable to a form of folk Islam popular at the time of the invasion."

"One theory as to why conversion to Islam was more prevalent in Bosnia than other places in the Balkans is the possibility that the Bosnian Church practiced bogomilism. Bogomilism was regarded as a major dualistic heresy by the Catholic Church and against whom Pope John XXII even launched a Crusade in 1325. Thus many adherents of the Bosnian Church were more receptive to conversion to Islam. In fact, in the Bogomilian tradition, there were several practices that resembled Islam: they rejected the veneration of the Virgin Mary, repudiated the Cross as a religious symbol, they considered it as idolatry to bow down before religious images, relics or saints, and even prayed five times a day (reciting the Lord's Prayer.)"

first of all for simple crimes there was punishment by death especially in battle or before battle during campaigns when army passed by a gardens if they needed anything like apples they would hang so many pieces of gold on the branches of the trees or plant whatever that the owner of that garden simply had enough gold for the rest of his life.

Do you have a source for that?

 

[Hydration]

@SilentEagle said in another thread:


Since I'm locked out of that thread,I wanted to reply to this because it's historically wrong. After the Fall of Constantinople,the Ottoman soldiers were allowed the usual 3 day looting.

Specifically:

Leonard of Chios witnessed the horrible atrocities that followed the fall of Constantinople. The Ottoman invaders pillaged the city, murdered or enslaved tens of thousands of people, and raped women and children. Even nuns were subjected to sexual assault by the Ottomans:




During three days of pillaging, the Ottoman invaders captured children and took them away to their tents, and became rich by plundering the imperial palace and the houses of Constantinople. The Ottoman official Tursun Beg wrote:




If any citizens of Constantinople tried to resist, they were slaughtered. According to Niccolò Barbaro, "all through the day the Turks made a great slaughter of Christians through the city". According to Makarios Melissenos:




Much of the Ottoman persecution of the city's citizens had overt religious overtones or undertones. The Ottoman soldiers were reported to have engaged in vileness within all the churches; the Grand Duke Lucas Notaras's daughter was forced to lie on the Hagia Sophia's altar with a crucifix under her head and gang raped by several Ottomans.[63]

The women of Constantinople suffered from rape at the hands of Ottoman forces.[64] According to historian Philip Mansel, widespread persecution of the city's civilian inhabitants took place, resulting in thousands of murders and rapes, and 30,000 civilians being enslaved or forcibly deported.[4] The vast majority of the citizens of Constantinople were forced to become slaves.[65][5][66]

According to Nicolas de Nicolay, slaves were displayed naked at the city's slave market, and young girls could be purchased.[67] The elder refugees in the Hagia Sophia were slaughtered and the women raped.[68] George Sphrantzes says that people of both genders were raped inside Hagia Sophia. According to Steven Runciman most of the elderly and the infirm/wounded and sick who were refugees inside the churches were killed, and the remainder were chained up and sold into slavery.[69]

Byzantine historian Doukas and Leonard of Chios stated after the fall that Mehmed II ordered the 14-year-old son of the Grand Duke Lucas Notaras brought to him "for his pleasure". When the father refused to deliver his son to such a fate he had them both decapitated on the spot.[70]

According to the Encyclopædia Britannica Mehmed II "permitted an initial period of looting that saw the destruction of many Orthodox churches", but tried to prevent a complete sack of the city.[71] The looting was extremely thorough in certain parts of the city. On 2 June, the Sultan found the city largely deserted and half in ruins; churches had been desecrated and stripped, houses were no longer habitable, and stores and shops were emptied. He is famously reported to have been moved to tears by this, saying, "What a city we have given over to plunder and destruction."[23]: 152 

Looting was carried out on a massive scale by sailors and marines who entered the city via other walls before they had been suppressed by regular troops, who were beyond the main gate. According to David Nicolle, the ordinary people were treated better by their Ottoman conquerors than their ancestors had been by Crusaders back in 1204, stating that only about 4,000 Greeks died in the siege, while according to a Venetian Senate report, 50 Venetian noblemen and over 500 other Venetian civilians died during the siege.[72] Many of the riches of the city were already looted in 1204, leaving only limited loot to the Ottomans.[73]


-----------------

Mehmed II granted his soldiers three days to plunder the city, as he had promised them and in accordance with the custom of the time.[23]: 145 [74] Soldiers fought over the possession of some of the spoils of war.[75]: 283  On the third day of the conquest, Mehmed II ordered all looting to stop and issued a proclamation that all Christians who had avoided capture or who had been ransomed could return to their homes without further molestation, although many had no homes to return to, and many more had been taken captive and not ransomed.[23]: 150–51  Byzantine historian George Sphrantzes, an eyewitness to the fall of Constantinople, described the Sultan's actions:[76][77]




The Hagia Sophia was converted into a mosque, but the Greek Orthodox Church was allowed to remain intact and Gennadius Scholarius was appointed Patriarch of Constantinople. This was once thought to be the origin of the Ottoman millet system; however, it is now considered a myth and no such system existed in the fifteenth century.[78][79]

You didnt have to make a thread we all know eagle is just questionable

 

[Foinikas]

You didnt have to make a thread we all know eagle is just questionable

Eagle doesn't know the basics of history and laughs it off as lies. The bad thing is that many Pakistanis believe stuff they read on Anadolu Agency and TRT,out of love for Turkey,Erdogan and the Ottoman past.

 

[EAGLE777]

I wonder how Greek Boi will take that

he will never accept it as always he will twist the truth.

 

[AlKardai]

Greek Boi knows it's a normal thing. For example,after the 3 day plunder,massacres and looting of Constantinople,Mehmed II ordered all people who survived,to come out of their hiding places,all people who had left to get back and that nobody would harm them. He did this,because he wanted to populate the City,it would have been pointless to conquer the Queen of Cities and leave it empty. It's logical that he wanted to govern the territories that he conquered with the least possible problems.


Actually:

"Several factors appear to have been behind this process. Most important was that Christianity had relatively shallow roots in Bosnia prior to the Ottoman domination. Bosnia lacked a strong Christian church organization to command a strong following—the result of a scarcity of priests and competition among the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches and schismatic Bosnian Church, which collapsed shortly before the Ottomans arrived. This left most people religiously unengaged and receptive to the appeal of Islam’s institutions. This receptiveness was aided by the development among many people of a kind of folk Christianity centered on various practices and ceremonies that was adaptable to a form of folk Islam popular at the time of the invasion."

"One theory as to why conversion to Islam was more prevalent in Bosnia than other places in the Balkans is the possibility that the Bosnian Church practiced bogomilism. Bogomilism was regarded as a major dualistic heresy by the Catholic Church and against whom Pope John XXII even launched a Crusade in 1325. Thus many adherents of the Bosnian Church were more receptive to conversion to Islam. In fact, in the Bogomilian tradition, there were several practices that resembled Islam: they rejected the veneration of the Virgin Mary, repudiated the Cross as a religious symbol, they considered it as idolatry to bow down before religious images, relics or saints, and even prayed five times a day (reciting the Lord's Prayer.)"


Do you have a source for that?

I’ve got no problem with you saying that the ottomans were brutal as long as you accept that the Greeks weren’t exactly “cute little bunnies” either

 

[EAGLE777]

So, if they passed by 15 apple gardens and took from them this army would hang gold in all those 15 apple gardens ? Man, that sounds like a made-up story.



I am curious, from when did Turks start using a dot to separate numbers in the hundred thousand range ? I am referring to the mention of the 124,000 prophets.

And I will let @Foinikas speak more on this.

It is real story yes they hang gold in all those trees.

Not sure when the dot to separate number were used however Sultan Mehmed the Conqueror knows 6 languages, Arabic, Persian, Latin, Greek, Italian etc he was extremely knowledged of european history and ancient Greek philosofy. There were no rulers as advanced and educated as him even in europe he was the most progressive leader of the century.

 

[Foinikas]

I’ve got no problem with you saying that the ottomans were brutal as long as you accept that the Greeks weren’t exactly “cute little bunnies” either

Said the Briton.

 

[EAGLE777]

Greek Boi knows it's a normal thing. For example,after the 3 day plunder,massacres and looting of Constantinople,Mehmed II ordered all people who survived,to come out of their hiding places,all people who had left to get back and that nobody would harm them. He did this,because he wanted to populate the City,it would have been pointless to conquer the Queen of Cities and leave it empty. It's logical that he wanted to govern the territories that he conquered with the least possible problems.


Actually:

"Several factors appear to have been behind this process. Most important was that Christianity had relatively shallow roots in Bosnia prior to the Ottoman domination. Bosnia lacked a strong Christian church organization to command a strong following—the result of a scarcity of priests and competition among the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches and schismatic Bosnian Church, which collapsed shortly before the Ottomans arrived. This left most people religiously unengaged and receptive to the appeal of Islam’s institutions. This receptiveness was aided by the development among many people of a kind of folk Christianity centered on various practices and ceremonies that was adaptable to a form of folk Islam popular at the time of the invasion."

"One theory as to why conversion to Islam was more prevalent in Bosnia than other places in the Balkans is the possibility that the Bosnian Church practiced bogomilism. Bogomilism was regarded as a major dualistic heresy by the Catholic Church and against whom Pope John XXII even launched a Crusade in 1325. Thus many adherents of the Bosnian Church were more receptive to conversion to Islam. In fact, in the Bogomilian tradition, there were several practices that resembled Islam: they rejected the veneration of the Virgin Mary, repudiated the Cross as a religious symbol, they considered it as idolatry to bow down before religious images, relics or saints, and even prayed five times a day (reciting the Lord's Prayer.)"


Do you have a source for that?

Yes

Ottoman history -Misperceptions and truths Akgunduz, ahmed kopen? Vergelijk de beste prijs op beslist.nl

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[Foinikas]

@Colonel_Hardstone this is from Harvard Law Review:

 

[[TR]AHMET]

last duke of byzantine Loukas Notaras said that 'Better the Turkish Turban than the Papal Tiara’

Because Ottomans allways behave nice against all people even christians and jewish wanted the judge under islamic sheria in that time. Fatih Sultan Mehmed ordered no one will harm and ensure gurranty about people safe.

But greek and western historians allways had butt h.rt that Turks beat them and behave justice...

So when they defeated by Turks they made excuses Turkish army was ten times bigger than ours bla bla and they killed innocent but they have zero evidence.

Because all churces and people values was in safe, still millions of christians living in Turkiye but most of them enter Islam because of beauty of our religion.

Other side when they invade our lands they killed everyone from child to elder.... any Turks doenst live at islands area anymore after westerns invade our islands... normally half of the people who living at islands was Turks.

So stop your false propaganda tools in this forum.

@WebMaster can you overcome this issue because @Foinikas blame Turkish people with baseless and false informations. It is not first time and he allways doing this in our section.

 

[Foinikas]

last duke of byzantine Loukas Notaras said that 'Better the Turkish Turban than the Papal Tiara’

Because Ottomans allways behave nice against all people even christians and jewish wanted the judge under islamic sheria in that time. Fatih Sultan Mehmed ordered no one will harm and ensure gurranty about people safe.

The phrase "better the Turkish turban than the Papal tiara" which I don't recall being said by Loukas Notaras,but others...was said not because the Turks were good and that Christians preferred Sharia,but because it was a popular phrase opposing the Union of the Churches and submitting to the Papacy.

But greek and western historians allways had butt h.rt that Turks beat them and behave justice...

So when they defeated by Turks they made excuses Turkish army was ten times bigger than ours bla bla and they killed innocent but they have zero evidence.

The evidence is right there. These are the sources of the time. This is first hand information from people who were present. Instead of blaming "greek and western historians",maybe you should study some history and see things a bit objectively.

This isn't some propaganda piece,it's history. We're talking about 1453,not the 21st century.

 

[Aslan1071]

The phrase "better the Turkish turban than the Papal tiara" which I don't recall being said by Loukas Notaras,but others...was said not because the Turks were good and that Christians preferred Sharia,but because it was a popular phrase opposing the Union of the Churches and submitting to the Papacy.





The evidence is right there. These are the sources of the time. This is first hand information from people who were present. Instead of blaming "greek and western historians",maybe you should study some history and see things a bit objectively.

This isn't some propaganda piece,it's history. We're talking about 1453,not the 21st century.

The persecution began in 1453. So you say. interesting. reminded me of someone.

 

[Foinikas]

The persecution began in 1453. So you say. interesting. reminded me of someone.

What?

 

[mulj]

it was not fall, it was liberation.

 

[Foinikas]

it was not fall, it was liberation.

Liberation from...?