Concerning the Fall of Constantinople...

[EAGLE777]

Ottoman soldiers may have been involved in sporadic events but we cannot base our arguments based upon Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not an authentic source.

1453, Constantinople was way passed its past glory. Though Byzantium soldiers fought most bravely and Usmani Turks gave thousands of lives, Emperor could not maintain a large armed army because he did have much in the treasures.
Turks might have involved after they breached the walls and losing so many lives but historical facts have to be collected. Whose version is correct?
One has to collect all evidence incuding circumstantial and then look at it.
But we passed that phase. Very difficult task. We are already into next waves of multi faceted wars.

Those figures given by European sources about number of Ottoman forces are hugely exaggerated. It’s a lie.

There was no heroic resistance or anything Mehmed the Conqueror came with the largest canons ever seen before and he brought down these walls then Jannisarries entered the city and took over that’s it.

 

[imadul]

Those figures given by European sources about number of Ottoman forces are hugely exaggerated. It’s a lie.

There was no heroic resistance or anything Mehmed the Conqueror came with the largest canons ever seen before and he brought down these walls then Jannisarries entered the city and took over that’s it.

It was Hungarian foundry Smith Urban who built biggest cannons for Sultan Mehmet. Ironically he first offered to build the cannons for Byzantium emperor but he could not afford it.
Siege continued for 53 days and they defended it with all the Valor. Turks fought hard and during final assault they lost lots of lives.
It was a victory and a culmination of centuries of attempts by Muslims to come true to the Prophesy of The Meesenger.

 

[Foinikas]

Those figures given by European sources about number of Ottoman forces are hugely exaggerated. It’s a lie.

The numbers of the Ottoman army have been reported as 80,000 or 150,000 or even 300,000. I believe the number was around 150,000 men.

The defenders in the City where about 5,000 Greeks and around 2,000 foreigners. All in all,the number of the defenders was around 8,000 men.
The foreign volunteers were mostly from Venice,Genoa and Spain. There was also the Turkish Prince Orhan with his guard.

The problem of the defenders was that they had a very small army to defend the biggest city in the world at the time.

Mehmed II had a huge and well-prepared
army and a lot of money to fund his expedition. And on top of all that,he had the latest weapon in siege warfare: the cannons.

Like @imadul said,they fought with extreme valor and resisted,having many successes in the battlefield.

You seem like you haven't studied this battle very much,I strongly suggest that you check it out. Runciman's book about it is one of the best or you can find the accounts of the siege from Sphrantzes, Barbaro,Kritovoulos and Doukas online.

 

[Zhukov]

Muslims need an historical reality check.

Actually most of these Muslims you see on social media dont really read history at all. Most of the information source in half baked speeches , Short clips , Fantasy themed novels on historical characters etc.

But Adding to that. Judging Muslim history by standards of Modern age or by standards of Idealism is not accirate as well. I would say Muslim history is pretty magnificient in all aspects compared to contemporary age of the time.
But yes it is not what muslims Geberally believe. Holy warriors riding horses in way of Allah is 90% Fantasy. I mean who are we kidding Timur Lane , Muhammad Fateh , Babur , Jahangir , Abbas Shah , Murad IV , Selim. They were all Emperors with huge courts not Saints doing work for happiness of Allah.

 

[EAGLE777]

It was Hungarian foundry Smith Urban who built biggest cannons for Sultan Mehmet. Ironically he first offered to build the cannons for Byzantium emperor but he could not afford it.
Siege continued for 53 days and they defended it with all the Valor. Turks fought hard and during final assault they lost lots of lives.
It was a victory and a culmination of centuries of attempts by Muslims to come true to the Prophesy of The Meesenger.

My man its all nonsense they did not defend anything the walls defended them after the walls collapsed they were finished. Or do you want to believe those heroic hollywood stories be my guest.

The numbers of the Ottoman army have been reported as 80,000 or 150,000 or even 300,000. I believe the number was around 150,000 men.

The defenders in the City where about 5,000 Greeks and around 2,000 foreigners. All in all,the number of the defenders was around 8,000 men.
The foreign volunteers were mostly from Venice,Genoa and Spain. There was also the Turkish Prince Orhan with his guard.

The problem of the defenders was that they had a very small army to defend the biggest city in the world at the time.

Mehmed II had a huge and well-prepared
army and a lot of money to fund his expedition. And on top of all that,he had the latest weapon in siege warfare: the cannons.

Like @imadul said,they fought with extreme valor and resisted,having many successes in the battlefield.

You seem like you haven't studied this battle very much,I strongly suggest that you check it out. Runciman's book about it is one of the best or you can find the accounts of the siege from Sphrantzes, Barbaro,Kritovoulos and Doukas online.

You must be out of your mind Ottoman empire in his whole existance didn't field such a large army. It is exaggeration to make europeans feel better about the loss.

Forget about it for a second and just use your common sense does these figures sound realistic to you Ottomans have 150K vs 5000 defenders lmao

 

[Adonis]

sound too much to be true sound more of british/american method of plundering, raping.

Cursing Britain while living there...?

Much before US/British, Nadir Shah, Ahmed Shah Abdali, came to your country and did much worse than Brits/US ever did...read the correct history, without putting Muslim/Islamic lens....

 

[jamahir]

And if there was any looting then it means it was permissable under special circumstances.

That is not the correct belief to have. Raping, murdering and plundering is never correct, never something to laugh about. The idea of sultanats / empires / kingdoms etc itself is wrong and worse if religion is used to justify power lust.

I think all this sad history will be put to rest if like I said in the other thread, Turkey assigns to the Hagia Sophia the status of a mosque as well as a church where any sect of Muslims and any sect of Christians can go worship. After all Islam is supposed to be the last in line of the Abrahamic religions. This act will earn Turkey a lot of good will in the world. Sometimes one has to take the middle position to bring harmony. There is no human reason such a thing cannot be done.

@Foinikas @jamal18 @imadul @ahmadnawaz22

 

[Foinikas]

My man its all nonsense they did not defend anything the walls defended them after the walls collapsed they were finished. Or do you want to believe those heroic hollywood stories be my guest.


You must be out of your mind Ottoman empire in his whole existance didn't field such a large army. It is exaggeration to make europeans feel better about the loss.

Forget about it for a second and just use your common sense does these figures sound realistic to you Ottomans have 150K vs 5000 defenders lmao

My man,you should really start reading history. I'm not mocking you,I'm just telling you,you should study this a bit more. Because it makes you look as if you are in denial. You should study more about the subject,Ottomans in their existence fielded such armies in big campaigns. It doesn't mean that everyone fought. Rhodes 1480,Mohac,Rhodes 1522,
Vienna,Malta.

We're talking about big campaigns.

 

[imadul]

That is not the correct belief to have. Raping, murdering and plundering is never correct, never something to laugh about. The idea of sultanats / empires / kingdoms etc itself is wrong and worse if religion is used to justify power lust.

I think all this sad history will be put to rest if like I said in the other thread, Turkey assigns to the Hagia Sophia the status of a mosque as well as a church where any sect of Muslims and any sect of Christians can go worship. After all Islam is supposed to be the last in line of the Abrahamic religions. This act will earn Turkey a lot of good will in the world. Sometimes one has to take the middle position to bring harmony. There is no human reason such a thing cannot be done.

@Foinikas @jamal18 @imadul @ahmadnawaz22

Most of my history books are in boxes and I don't want to give a verdict based upon insufficient knowledge though I may conjecture.

632, battle of Yarmouk, with the same Byzantium empire, Muslims have to leave several of their conquered territories inuding Homs, and Damascus. Khalid Ben Alwalid and Abu Ubaida Ben Jarrah returned the Jazya tax to the local Christian population. Commanders said we no longer provide protection so we are returning it.
Bishops came on the walls of city of Homs crying this is God' just conduct and we won't let anyone take the city but you.

Massacre and plunder was never a phenomenon associated with Muslims conquests. But there could be exceptions which can never be condoned.

When Jerusalem was conquered in 1099, Crusaders slaughtered every Muslim, and many Jewes. Lane pool and other historian wrote Muslims were slaughtered in the Al Aqsa masjid also and blood and chopped limbs were to the knees of horses.

This is just a perspective.

I am writing with my memory, and I am not at all interested in shaking the history...not much staminna left as my IT job takes so much of it.
But I shall look more closely at the fall of Constantinople of 1453 when an opportunity shall come.

 

[EAGLE777]

That is not the correct belief to have. Raping, murdering and plundering is never correct, never something to laugh about. The idea of sultanats / empires / kingdoms etc itself is wrong and worse if religion is used to justify power lust.

I think all this sad history will be put to rest if like I said in the other thread, Turkey assigns to the Hagia Sophia the status of a mosque as well as a church where any sect of Muslims and any sect of Christians can go worship. After all Islam is supposed to be the last in line of the Abrahamic religions. This act will earn Turkey a lot of good will in the world. Sometimes one has to take the middle position to bring harmony. There is no human reason such a thing cannot be done.

@Foinikas @jamal18 @imadul @ahmadnawaz22

Do not put words in my mouth i just said looting maybe has occured as it was normal in that period everybody did it never did i say murdering or rape . The world is very ignorant when it comes to basic knowledge of Ottomans.

We are speaking about first professional army in the world the forces were such disciplined I'll give an example why i believe these accusations are impossible first of all for simple crimes there was punishment by death especially in battle or before battle during campaigns when army passed by a gardens if they needed anything like apples they would hang so many pieces of gold on the branches of the trees or plant whatever that the owner of that garden simply had enough gold for the rest of his life.

 

[EAGLE777]

@jamahir

This is a ferman (imperial decree) from Sultan Mehmed the Conqueror after conquest of Bosnia.

After witnessing real justice and how fair the Turks are Bosnians converted to Islam.

 

[Azadkashmir]

Cursing Britain while living there...?

Much before US/British, Nadir Shah, Ahmed Shah Abdali, came to your country and did much worse than Brits/US ever did...read the correct history, without putting Muslim/Islamic lens....

b itch who said i a m cursing it is well documented brits are looters what were they doing Indian subcontinent. i am over there because they over here still ruling behind the scenes.

are you true native to new zealand or squatter.

It was Hungarian foundry Smith Urban who built biggest cannons for Sultan Mehmet. Ironically he first offered to build the cannons for Byzantium emperor but he could not afford it.
Siege continued for 53 days and they defended it with all the Valor. Turks fought hard and during final assault they lost lots of lives.
It was a victory and a culmination of centuries of attempts by Muslims to come true to the Prophesy of The Meesenger.

thats where sultan was wrong that prophecy is not him, that is yet still to come.

 

[AlKardai]

@jamahir

This is a ferman (imperial decree) from Sultan Mehmed the Conqueror after conquest of Bosnia.

View attachment 831373
After witnessing real justice and how fair the Turks are Bosnians converted to Islam.

I wonder how Greek Boi will take that

 

[Zhukov]

That is not the correct belief to have. Raping, murdering and plundering is never correct, never something to laugh about. The idea of sultanats / empires / kingdoms etc itself is wrong and worse if religion is used to justify power lust.

I think all this sad history will be put to rest if like I said in the other thread, Turkey assigns to the Hagia Sophia the status of a mosque as well as a church where any sect of Muslims and any sect of Christians can go worship. After all Islam is supposed to be the last in line of the Abrahamic religions. This act will earn Turkey a lot of good will in the world. Sometimes one has to take the middle position to bring harmony. There is no human reason such a thing cannot be done.

@Foinikas @jamal18 @imadul @ahmadnawaz22

They will fight each other once inside together.
And yes there is no justification to Genocide and wars. In wars Children die. I dont know how normal minded people who have never lifted a gun or a sword in life fantasize wars so much.

 

[jamahir]

when army passed by a gardens if they needed anything like apples they would hang so many pieces of gold on the branches of the trees or plant whatever that the owner of that garden simply had enough gold for the rest of his life.

So, if they passed by 15 apple gardens and took from them this army would hang gold in all those 15 apple gardens ? Man, that sounds like a made-up story.

@jamahir

This is a ferman (imperial decree) from Sultan Mehmed the Conqueror after conquest of Bosnia.

View attachment 831373
After witnessing real justice and how fair the Turks are Bosnians converted to Islam.

I am curious, from when did Turks start using a dot to separate numbers in the hundred thousand range ? I am referring to the mention of the 124,000 prophets.

And I will let @Foinikas speak more on this.