Comparison : Pakistani Al Khalid-1 MBT vs Israeli Merkava IV MBT !

[500]

"Varta" is the Ukrainian version of Russian "Shtora". Its simply IR lights installed in front of the tank:

1) It exposes tank to all IR and thermal vision systems (its like driving with turned on lights at night).
2) It protects only against the certain kind of very old ATGMs.
3) It protects only front, not 360 grad.

So pretty useless system. Thats why Indians rejected it for their T-90S. I dont see its installed on any operational Al Khalids either.

 

[Teeta]

"Varta" is the Ukrainian version of Russian "Shtora". Its simply IR lights installed in front of the tank:

1) It exposes tank to all IR and thermal vision systems (its like driving with turned on lights at night).
2) It protects only against the certain kind of very old ATGMs.
3) It protects only front, not 360 grad.

So pretty useless system. Thats why Indians rejected it for their T-90S. I dont see its installed on any operational Al Khalids either.

Yeah, Pakistanis are developing their own Active Protection System as far as I've heard on this forum.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

"Varta" is the Ukrainian version of Russian "Shtora". Its simply IR lights installed in front of the tank:

1) It exposes tank to all IR and thermal vision systems (its like driving with turned on lights at night).
2) It protects only against the certain kind of very old ATGMs.
3) It protects only front, not 360 grad.

So pretty useless system. Thats why Indians rejected it for their T-90S. I dont see its installed on any operational Al Khalids either.

But sir this tank will be more used in desert warfare to defend Pakistan against advancing indian armored columns!!
So for that reason the front must be the most protected side of a tank i suppose.
Its not (AK) is not developed for urban warfare like yours MK 4.....

So i guess its not that much need for us to protect its each n every corner, atleast keeping in mind its defensive role in the deserts of our Country.

 

[DARKY]

I have seen them inside the tank myself, they are there.

I quiet sure you must've seen many things.. inside the tank[including Kombat ATGM being loaded by hand and auto-loader not being able to load that ]... however the engineering limitations doesn't allow special chambers to store Ammo in a tank of the design of Al Khalid... the main reason being the auto-loader and the small size.

Only option for tanks such as Al Khalid is to make a bustle to store ammo... however that would make the tank heavier and taking out the ammo for loading wold be time taking... like in

T-84 Oplot.

T-90MS

 

[DARKY]

But sir this tank will be more used in desert warfare to defend Pakistan against advancing indian armored columns!!
So for that reason the front must be the most protected side of a tank i suppose.
Its not (AK) is not developed for urban warfare like yours MK 4.....

So i guess its not that much need for us to protect its each n every corner, atleast keeping in mind its defensive role in the deserts of our Country.

What about Top...

NAG

LAHAT

 

[Umair Nawaz]

What about Top...

NAG

LAHAT

i think i had myself clear enough.......Front side generally means all the things facing the front!!!
Including the Upper, Middle and Lower Front........

 

[DARKY]

i think i had myself clear enough.......Front side generally means all the things facing the front!!!
Including the Upper, Middle and Lower Front........

When talking about MBTs... a top is top and a front is front for an ATGM... there are nothing like upper front or middle front or lower front.
The missiles shown in the video are designed to Hit right on the top of crew Hatches where the protection is weakest... only thing which can save the MBT from such type of attack is adding 1meter thick armor brick on the top of crew hatch making it almost impossible to move the tank around with that weight and for crew to come out without the support of cranes... or install Hard kill APS like on Merkava Mk4 and hope that it works with the latest gen. of ATGM.

 

[AUz]

Dont mind my raw comments op

but its hillarious to see pakistanies junping up and down with joy over there so called VARTA protected Al Khaled over Merkava 4 which is having the same capibility for some years now and al khaled 1 is not even in production where as merkava 4 is already having MLUs and even before them it was far superior anything that indians , russians and super chiniese ever had well maybe better than germans aswell but as they say

BANDAR KO MILI HALDI KI GHAANT PANSAARI BAN BAITHA ...........

Before making a complete fool out of yourself, (well you're indian..so a born fool)...atleast read my OP. I CLEARLY highlighted TROPHY as an "ADVANTAGE" of Merkava IV over Al Khalid-1...Plus, tens of smilies doesn't change the fact that you're an troll who doesn't know anything about the topic being discussed!

 

[GURU DUTT]

Before making a complete fool out of yourself, (well you're indian..so a born fool)...atleast read my OP. I CLEARLY highlighted TROPHY as an "ADVANTAGE" of Merkava IV over Al Khalid-1...Plus, tens of smilies doesn't change the fact that you're an troll who doesn't know anything about the topic being discussed!

well sirji we all know the IQ level of Posters like you who are from the land of the pure dont mind but i still beleave in what i said lolzzz that another matter that your ego cant take it ....well who cares he he he he he he

 

[AUz]

well sirji we all know the IQ level of Posters like you who are from the land of the pure dont mind but i still beleave in what i said lolzzz that another matter that your ego cant take it ....well who cares he he he he he he

Exactly. People know my "IQ" too and yours also, who can't make a technical comment on any subject but just blabber like a loser kid "he he he he".....

My ego doesn't get hurt by mentally challenged people like you. Make a comment based on technical data and see my reaction. Till then, STFU.

 

[for truth]

Exactly. People know my "IQ" too and yours also, who can't make a technical comment on any subject but just blabber like a loser kid "he he he he".....

My ego doesn't get hurt by mentally challenged people like you. Make a comment based on technical data and see my reaction. Till then, STFU.

i have a simple question, you touched upon all the data that is their out in the open, however, there are even some other important data that was not discussed here, and i would like to touch upon a few here.

what about the service life of these tanks?this is also a crucial factor, and other one, maintainability and ease of servicing these tanks, a tank may be good while we look at the stats here, but what if they take hell lot of time to service or repair, and of course, the problem with maintenance, Russian tanks are known for their ruggedness,that is, they will still continue to perform even when most others tanks have given up.the cost of maintenance also is main factor, a battle tank has hardly any chance of seeing a battle in its entire life time, in case of Pakistan or India, so if their cost of maintenance is more, then you are doing nothing but burning your money.

and other factors also play a vital role, like ease of replacing faulty parts, time consumed in repair, in real time war, if the tank ends up taking hours to repair or service when badly damaged, then, there is not point in talking of armor of rate of fire,at that time the tank will only be a sitting duck for the enemy, of course for this to happen, the enemy's tank has to have a service or repair time much lesser than the opponents.

 

[AUz]

i have a simple question, you touched upon all the data that is their out in the open, however, there are even some other important data that was not discussed here, and i would like to touch upon a few here.

what about the service life of these tanks?this is also a crucial factor, and other one, maintainability and ease of servicing these tanks, a tank may be good while we look at the stats here, but what if they take hell lot of time to service or repair, and of course, the problem with maintenance, Russian tanks are known for their ruggedness,that is, they will still continue to perform even when most others tanks have given up.the cost of maintenance also is main factor, a battle tank has hardly any chance of seeing a battle in its entire life time, in case of Pakistan or India, so if their cost of maintenance is more, then you are doing nothing but burning your money.

and other factors also play a vital role, like ease of replacing faulty parts, time consumed in repair, in real time war, if the tank ends up taking hours to repair or service when badly damaged, then, there is not point in talking of armor of rate of fire,at that time the tank will only be a sitting duck for the enemy, of course for this to happen, the enemy's tank has to have a service or repair time much lesser than the opponents.

My OP was just a generic post that I posted out of boredom. You touched good points, and other than that, electronics, computers etc also play a very important role.

Over-all, simply put, Merkava IV (most latest Israeli tank) is superior to Al Khalid-1 BUT the "difference" is not as much as many used to think.

What about Top...

NAG

LAHAT

Nag isn't operational in indian army while Lahat has its own weaknesses.

Not to mention, Pakistan is developing its indigenous Active Protection System for Al Khalids...

 

[DARKY]

Nag isn't operational in indian army while Lahat has its own weaknesses.

Not to mention, Pakistan is developing its indigenous Active Protection System for Al Khalids...

You sure about that ?

The Army has decided to buy 13 Nag carriers (NAMICA, being developed by BEL and L&T), and 443 Nag missiles in the current state.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/195490-indian-army-drdo-co-operate-boost-tank-killer-nag-missile.html

Weakness such as ?

We would see that once its developed.

 

[AUz]

You sure about that ?



The Army has decided to buy 13 Nag carriers (NAMICA, being developed by BEL and L&T), and 443 Nag missiles in the current state.

Your own words confirm that Nag is not "operational" in indian army as we speak.

Weakness such as ?

Umm well Laser Guidance for one...

Lahat needs a laser to designate target, which will alert tank, and disrupt it's guidance with countermeasures.but then, there are arguments countering this too...its a never ending game...thats why I left this topic in my OP.

Al Khalid-1s use KOMBAT ATGM which are superior to Lahats in many ways...but also have some disadvantages etc

 

[for truth]

My OP was just a generic post that I posted out of boredom. You touched good points, and other than that, electronics, computers etc also play a very important role.

Over-all, simply put, Merkava IV (most latest Israeli tank) is superior to Al Khalid-1 BUT the "difference" is not as much as many used to think.

again,this is just an assumption, the Al Khalid was specifically meant to match Pakistan's requirement, and Merkava for Israel's, while the concept involved in the very design of the tank is different,it won't be so easy to compare them. Merkava, operates in a terrain that is totally alien to Al Khalid, and operated thousands of miles away, while our comparison revolves only on comparing basic points, no one can tell with certainty how the Al Khalid will perform when put to test in the terrains of middle east. will Al Khalid match the ruggedness of merkava? will it be able to sustain the harsh terrain of the middle east for as along as merkava? will its engine be able to perform with same reliability in such harsh weather? will the soldiers be able to drive through such harsh terrain? will it match merkavas tactics in desert?. And to operate in Middle east, you need efficient cooling systems, has Al Khalid efficient cooling system as that of Merkava, can those cooling systems operate at longer periods in deserts?...this is what exactly happened in Indian army's older T-72, during one of the operations, the temperature increased drastically, and the tank operators could not bear the high temperature and this made the T-72 inoperable in high temperature, and the matter was taken up to the highest level- even our former president APJ abdul kalam made a statement on this, this forced scientists to make many modifications into Arjun tank, this is just one of many un-discussed parameters.

If the cooling systems fails, the electronic components and computers start to malfunction, the performance of engine comes down drastically. There is set limit on all electronic gadgets on operating temperatures, if you are a electronic engineer , you will know this, and efficient cooling systems are a must on Battle tanks,and the merkavas were designed to operate specifically in desert like conditions of middle east, they have mastered the tactics there, and Al Khalid will be totally alien to Middle east environment.


tank battle is not just of rate of fire or Armour, it involves many more complexities, that is why the Israelis developed there own tank instead of going to American Abrams, the Abrams is a great tank ,but, it never matched the Israel's requirements, and merkavas was tailor made to met those requirements. And that is why the merkava is the beauty of the desert, cannot say the same for Al Khalid until it is really put to test in those terrain, and any discussion without any actual experiment never makes sense. .