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Comparing India and Pakistan 2010

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Does the size of the force of over 100,000 Indian soldiers represent the seriousness of the threat the Indian government face in fighting the rebels? Contrast this with the force of 30,000 soldiers Pakistan has deployed in South Waziristan, or the 68000 American troops in the entire Afghan war theater.

Firstly it was 60,000. Secondly, the GOI faced serious criticism from some sections of the press for the excessive number of troops in the operation. Thirdly, and more importantly, these were not Indian army troops, (Unlike the Pakistani army which is fighting in South Waziristan) but rather a mixture of police and paramilitary battalions.

If you're gonna equate the naxals with the TTP, you're fighting a losing battle. No comparison can be made between them. None.
 
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Comparison threads like these never end well.

You should focus on your countries future without drawing direct competition from others.

And FYI

No one, no one with a sane mind is going to believe that Gujarat and Kerala are doing badly.

You will be preaching to a wall on this i suggest you find a better argument

Read Sean Paul Kelly, a traveller-blogger with a sane mind, who wrote as follows about India:

If you are Indian, or of Indian descent, I must preface this post with a clear warning: you are not going to like what I have to say. My criticisms may be very hard to stomach. But consider them as the hard words and loving advice of a good friend. Someone who's being honest with you and wants nothing from you. These criticisms apply to all of India except Kerala and the places I didn't visit, except that I have a feeling it applies to all of India, except as I mentioned before, Kerala. Lastly, before anyone accuses me of Western Cultural Imperialism, let me say this: if this is what India and Indians want, then hey, who am I to tell them differently. Take what you like and leave the rest. In the end it doesn't really matter, as I get the sense that Indians, at least many upper class Indians, don't seem to care and the lower classes just don't know any better, what with Indian culture being so intense and pervasive on the sub-continent. But here goes, nonetheless.

India is a mess. It's that simple, but it's also quite complicated. I'll start with what I think are India's four major problems--the four most preventing India from becoming a developing nation--and then move to some of the ancillary ones.

First, pollution. In my opinion the *****, squalor and all around pollution indicates a marked lack of respect for India by Indians. I don't know how cultural the ***** is, but it's really beyond anything I have ever encountered. At times the smells, trash, refuse and excrement are like a garbage dump. Right next door to the Taj Mahal was a pile of trash that smelled so bad, was so foul as to almost ruin the entire Taj experience. Delhi, Bangalore and Chennai to a lesser degree were so very polluted as to make me physically ill. Sinus infections, ear infection, bowels churning was an all to common experience in India. Dung, be it goat, cow or human fecal matter was common on the streets. In major tourist areas ***** was everywhere, littering the sidewalks, the roadways, you name it. Toilets in the middle of the road, men urinating and defecating anywhere, in broad daylight. Whole villages are plastic bag wastelands. Roadsides are choked by it. Air quality that can hardly be called quality. Far too much coal and far to few unleaded vehicles on the road. The measure should be how dangerous the air is for one's health, not how good it is. People casually throw trash in the streets, on the roads. The only two cities that could be considered sanitary in my journey were Trivandrum--the capital of Kerala--and Calicut. I don't know why this is. But I can assure you that at some point this pollution will cut into India's productivity, if it already hasn't. The pollution will hobble India's growth path, if that indeed is what the country wants. (Which I personally doubt, as India is far too conservative a country, in the small 'c' sense.)

The second issue, infrastructure, can be divided into four subcategories: roads, rails and ports and the electrical grid. The electrical grid is a joke. Load shedding is all too common, everywhere in India. Wide swaths of the country spend much of the day without the electricity they actually pay for. With out regular electricity, productivity, again, falls. The ports are a joke. Antiquated, out of date, hardly even appropriate for the mechanized world of container ports, more in line with the days of longshoremen and the like. Roads are an equal disaster. I only saw one elevated highway that would be considered decent in Thailand, much less Western Europe or America. And I covered fully two thirds of the country during my visit. There are so few dual carriage way roads as to be laughable. There are no traffic laws to speak of, and if there are, they are rarely obeyed, much less enforced. A drive that should take an hour takes three. A drive that should take three takes nine. The buses are at least thirty years old, if not older. Everyone in India, or who travels in India raves about the railway system. Rubbish. It's awful. Now, when I was there in 2003 and then late 2004 it was decent. But in the last five years the traffic on the rails has grown so quickly that once again, it is threatening productivity. Waiting in line just to ask a question now takes thirty minutes. Routes are routinely sold out three and four days in advance now, leaving travelers stranded with little option except to take the decrepit and dangerous buses. At least fifty million people use the trains a day in India. 50 million people! Not surprising that waitlists of 500 or more people are common now. The rails are affordable and comprehensive but they are overcrowded and what with budget airlines popping up in India like Sadhus in an ashram the middle and lowers classes are left to deal with the overutilized rails and quality suffers. No one seems to give a ****. Seriously, I just never have the impression that the Indian government really cares. Too interested in buying weapons from Russia, Israel and the US I guess.

The last major problem in India is an old problem and can be divided into two parts that've been two sides of the same coin since government was invented: bureaucracy and corruption. It take triplicates to register into a hotel. To get a SIM card for one's phone is like wading into a jungle of red-tape and photocopies one is not likely to emerge from in a good mood, much less satisfied with customer service. Getting train tickets is a terrible ordeal, first you have to find the train number, which takes 30 minutes, then you have to fill in the form, which is far from easy, then you have to wait in line to try and make a reservation, which takes 30 minutes at least and if you made a single mistake on the form back you go to the end of the queue, or what passes for a queue in India. The government is notoriously uninterested in the problems of the commoners, too busy fleecing the rich, or trying to get rich themselves in some way shape or form. Take the trash for example, civil rubbish collection authorities are too busy taking kickbacks from the wealthy to keep their areas clean that they don't have the time, manpower, money or interest in doing their job. Rural hospitals are perennially understaffed as doctors pocket the fees the government pays them, never show up at the rural hospitals and practice in the cities instead.

I could go on for quite some time about my perception of India and its problems, but in all seriousness, I don't think anyone in India really cares. And that, to me, is the biggest problem. India is too conservative a society to want to change in any way. Mumbai, India's financial capital is about as ******, polluted and poor as the worst city imaginable in Vietnam, or Indonesia--and being more polluted than Medan, in Sumatra is no easy task. The biggest rats I have ever seen were in Medan!

One would expect a certain amount of, yes, I am going to use this word, backwardness, in a country that hasn't produced so many Nobel Laureates, nuclear physicists, imminent economists and entrepreneurs. But India has all these things and what have they brought back to India with them? Nothing. The rich still have their servants, the lower castes are still there to do the dirty work and so the country remains in stasis. It's a shame. Indians and India have many wonderful things to offer the world, but I'm far from sanguine that India will amount to much in my lifetime.

Now, have at it, call me a cultural imperialist, a spoiled child of the West and all that. But remember, I've been there. I've done it. And I've seen 50 other countries on this planet and none, not even Ethiopia, have as long and gargantuan a laundry list of problems as India does. And the bottom line is, I don't think India really cares. Too complacent and too conservative.


Reflections On India - Sean Paul Kelley - Open Salon
 
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Firstly it was 60,000. Secondly, the GOI faced serious criticism from some sections of the press for the excessive number of troops in the operation. Thirdly, and more importantly, these were not Indian army troops, (Unlike the Pakistani army which is fighting in South Waziristan) but rather a mixture of police and paramilitary battalions.

If you're gonna equate the naxals with the TTP, you're fighting a losing battle. No comparison can be made between them. None.

I know you find it hard to believe, but India is a country where over 200,000 farmers have committed suicide in the last ten yeas, and it is one of the few nations that still has rampant Apartheid. The country is ripe for a revolution.

Over 250 million people are victims of caste-based discrimination and segregation in India. They live miserable lives, shunned by much of society because of their ranks as untouchables or Dalits at the bottom of a rigid caste system in Hindu India. Dalits are discriminated against, denied access to land, forced to work in slave-like conditions, and routinely abused, even killed, at the hands of the police and of higher-caste groups that enjoy the state's protection, according to Human Rights Watch.

In what has been called Asia's hidden apartheid, entire villages in many Indian states remain completely segregated by caste.

Haq's Musings: Dalit Victims of Apartheid in India
 
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What did you do, search "India sucks" on google??:lol: Don't go down this path, there are lot more articles that trash the nation of Pakistan on the net than those that trash India.

India may have problems. Many millions of them. However, your assertions that Pakistan is better off than India is a mistaken one.

I know you find it hard to believe, but India is a country where over 200,000 farmers have committed suicide in the last ten yeas, and it is one of the few nations that still has rampant Apartheid. The country is ripe for a revolution.

Over 250 million people are victims of caste-based discrimination and segregation in India. They live miserable lives, shunned by much of society because of their ranks as untouchables or Dalits at the bottom of a rigid caste system in Hindu India. Dalits are discriminated against, denied access to land, forced to work in slave-like conditions, and routinely abused, even killed, at the hands of the police and of higher-caste groups that enjoy the state's protection, according to Human Rights Watch.

In what has been called Asia's hidden apartheid, entire villages in many Indian states remain completely segregated by caste.

and what pray does this have to do with what i wrote? Seriously, point it out to me.

Caste is the topic members run to when they have nothing of importance to say. It reeks of desperation. Try harder next time.
 
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AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED TO THE WESTERNER OR NON ASIAN and that includes the muslim arab brothers they can see any difference between india pakistan or bangladesh.

South ASIA as a whole is ONE BIG OVER POPULATED MESS
 
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What did you do, search "India sucks" on google??:lol: Don't go down this path, there are lot more articles that trash the nation of Pakistan on the net than those that trash India.

India may have problems. Many millions of them. However, your assertions that Pakistan is better off than India is a mistaken one.



and what pray does this have to do with what i wrote? Seriously, point it out to me.

Caste is the topic members run to when they have nothing of importance to say. It reeks of desperation. Try harder next time.

So now you want me to give you reading comprehension and history lessons? You can't see that all revolts are bred by social injustice and mounting grievances, regardless of the use of religion, caste, creed etc as banners?

Haq's Musings: Taliban Target Pakistan's Landed Elite

Haq's Musings: Bloody Revolution in India?
 
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AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED TO THE WESTERNER OR NON ASIAN and that includes the muslim arab brothers they can see any difference between india pakistan or bangladesh.

South ASIA as a whole is ONE BIG OVER POPULATED MESS

Westerners, like Goldman Sachs, also see a lot of opportunity for profits in this "ONE BIG OVER POPULATED MESS". In addition to India in BRIC group, Bangladesh and Pakistan are in the the "Next 11" group expected to be among the top 20 largest economies in a a decade or two.

Haq's Musings: Goldman, Franklin-Templeton Bullish on Pakistan's Economy
 
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COMMENT : Geopolitical reality bites —Shaan Akbar

Militant groups, sponsored by Pakistan’s military, have turned on the state. They are not the product of a conspiracy hatched by any combination of Indians, Israelis or Americans. The only conspirators here are those who nurtured these groups

For the last several months, we’ve witnessed Pakistan tread down the path of implosion. The country finds itself in a recession and is relying once again on the IMF for budgetary support. The military campaign in South Waziristan may have merely displaced militants who continue to carry out retaliatory bombings and assassinations in Pakistan proper. The nation’s allies (even the Chinese) are growing increasingly weary with a nation that can’t get its affairs in order. Encirclement by regimes hostile to Pakistan grows closer to reality.

It’s a grim picture that, at first, reaffirmed for me the need for consensus among the country’s elite. I have long called for a single cohesive and comprehensive agenda agreed to by the military, politicians, bureaucracy, business interests, and the media to undo the crisis in governance and set the country back on the path to socio-economic development.

However, the more I’ve thought about it, the more the problem presents itself as one that is rooted in perspective –- Pakistan’s elite appear to be out of touch with geopolitical reality. After all, when the situation is so dire, why is the military-bureaucratic complex hacking away at the PPP-led government? Why does the media remain mired in conspiracy theories? Why are the country’s political parties locked in a cycle of political opportunism? The behaviour isn’t rational.

The disconnect with reality appears to stem from two core flaws in the Pakistani perspective: failure to understand the limitation of national resources/capabilities, and failure to understand that the state’s actions have consequences. As regards the first flaw, Pakistan must understand that it cannot go it alone. Pakistan’s geography makes the nation strategic, but its geography also acts as an inhibitor. Pakistan does not have the resources to achieve self-sufficiency; Pakistan must trade and seek external investment not just to flourish, but also to survive. That’s why it’s vital that Pakistan not alienate its key sponsors (the US, China, Saudi Arabia, etc) or its regional neighbours (Iran, Afghanistan, etc).

When the US tripled non-military aid to Pakistan through the Kerry-Lugar Bill, the Pakistani military did exactly what it shouldn’t have done — it voiced massive opposition to the bill and alienated the US. The military’s opposition is rooted in language tying the aid to civilian control over the military. The military blames President Asif Zardari for the wording and is out for his blood. Being the single most powerful institution in Pakistan and after governing Pakistan for over half of its existence, the Pakistani military must be acting out of sheer pride if it feels that the wording in the Kerry-Lugar Bill will undermine its pre-eminent status in Pakistan overnight. It is another matter that people who sought to have that wording placed in the Kerry-Lugar Bill should have also taken this rationale into account. It was a tactical misstep to think that conditional US aid would work to strengthen democratic institutions in Pakistan. The best way to strengthen democracy is to garner overwhelming public support through capable leadership and socio-economic progress.

Another of our limitations is Pakistan’s status in South Asia. Pakistan cannot seek parity with India — military or otherwise. Since its inception, Pakistan has viewed itself as a strategic equal of India — and to disastrous ends. India is far too large and developing at far too quick a pace for Pakistan to be its peer. Though it has yet to go far, India is on the road to becoming a global power. Pakistan is a regional power at best. Militarily, Pakistan has achieved a minimum deterrence through its nuclear capability. It should reduce the size of its standing military and focus on becoming smaller, more mobile, and technologically advanced. It should rely on force multipliers and redirect funds towards development.

Pakistan cannot win Kashmir from India. Three wars over the disputed state (Kargil included) have demonstrated that Pakistan cannot wrest Kashmir from India’s control –- India’s military is far too superior in terms of quality and quantity. The best Pakistan can hope for is recognition of the status quo or a Musharrafian solution (joint governance of Kashmir). Again, focus should be on effectively governing existing Pakistani territory and creating a model that demonstrates why Kashmir is better in Pakistani hands.

Pakistan’s other core flaw — failure to understand that the state’s actions have consequences — is demonstrated by the fact that militant groups, sponsored by Pakistan’s military, have turned on the state. These militant groups are no longer national security assets to leverage against India or to attain ‘strategic depth’ in Afghanistan. They are not the product of a conspiracy hatched by any combination of Indians, Israelis or Americans. The only conspirators here are those who nurtured these groups and now do not want to shoulder the responsibility for the deaths of hundreds of innocent Pakistani civilians.


Talking about consequences of the state’s actions, we have still to realise that ineffective and inequitable governance results in a loss of sovereignty. Poor and inequitable governance spawned an insurgency in East Pakistan, providing India the opening for the 1971 war and Pakistan’s subsequent dismemberment. Once again, poor and inequitable governance has spawned not one, but two insurgencies in Pakistan’s west (i.e., Balochistan and the NWFP/FATA).

Similarly, irresponsible behaviour with nuclear technology is the biggest threat to Pakistan’s arsenal. Many Pakistanis believe that the US is out to denuclearise Pakistan. Many Pakistanis also view it as ‘unfair’ that the Indians have a civil nuclear deal with the US and they don’t. However, none of this should come as a surprise after Pakistan, through Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan, proliferated nuclear technology to the likes of Libya, North Korea, and Iran. Pakistan must demonstrate responsibility and maturity in handling its nuclear capability if it wants cooperation from western powers.

Knowing where the problem lies, the greater question then becomes : how do we go about changing mindsets? How do we go about awakening a nation from its daze? The answer? We talk about it. Educate. Encourage mature discourse. Repeat (as many times as necessary).

Footnote : I recently had the opportunity to sit down with Pakistan’s ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, whom I’ve known since he was a professor at Boston University. In discussing US-Pakistan relations and Pakistan’s role in the wider world, it occurred to me that Haqqani is arguably among the best envoys Pakistan has had in Washington in a long time. He is articulate, well connected, and knows what he’s talking about. Even if the PPP government falls or if Zardari is ousted, it may not be a bad idea to keep Haqqani around. Pakistan, I believe, is best served with him as its ambassador.

Shaan Akbar is a New York-based analyst and editor of the weblog, The Insider Brief ( The Insider Brief )
 
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^^ Buddy you missed the sarcasm

There is no need for comments like that, why be petty.

Pak has an economy not in the best shape with some people trying hard to get by during a tough time.

I am not going to BS over it. why should I

If people come after India with BS
i shall counter with facts.

I am not going to trow **** at them just to make my point
 
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A BETTER INDIA A BETTER WORLD!

With one of the highest GDP growth rates in the world and an array of recent achievements in technology, industry and entrepreneurship, India strides confidently towards the future. But, in the world’s largest democracy, not everyone is equally fortunate. More than 300 million Indians are still prey to hunger, illiteracy and disease, and 51 per cent of India’s children are still undernourished.

What will it take for India to bridge this great divide? When will the fruits of development reach the poorest of the poor, and wipe the tears from the eyes of every man, woman and child, as Mahatma Gandhi had dreamt? And how should this, our greatest challenge ever, be negotiated?

In this extraordinarily inspiring and visionary book, N.R. Narayana Murthy, who pioneered, designed and executed the Global Delivery Model that has become the cornerstone of India’s success in information technology services outsourcing, shows us that a society working for the greatest welfare of the greatest number—samasta jananam sukhino bhavantu—must focus on two simple things: values and good leadership. Drawing on the remarkable Infosys story and the lessons learnt from the two decades of post-reform India, Narayana Murthy lays down the ground rules that must be followed if future generations are to inherit a truly progressive nation.

Built on Narayana Murthy’s lectures delivered around the world, A Better India: A Better World is a manifesto for the youth, the architects of the future, and a compelling argument for why a better India holds the key to a better world.

A Better India, A Better World-N.R. Narayana Murthy-Penguin Books India


as for pakistan my friends rest assured we are on our way to recovery! we are in a much better state then we were in 2008 january! soyes slowly & steadily we are recovering its time to ignore the world rant & dooms day thoeires on pakistan put our head down & keep working as a nation!

pakistan is here to stay we are at our best when we are up against the wall! we are cornered tigers like IMRAN KHAN SAID before the 1992 worldcup game!
 
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Comparison threads like these never end well.

You should focus on your countries future without drawing direct competition from others.

And FYI

No one, no one with a sane mind is going to believe that Gujarat and Kerala are doing badly.

You will be preaching to a wall on this i suggest you find a better argument

I am totally agree with you, so you should tell these to indian gvot and indian media stop compairing china with great india. And I will feel so appreciated for that.
Back to the topic, good artical and congrates pakistan.
Personally, I strongly believe pakistan will one day solve those problem and become a country like japan which is not a big country without huge population and nature resource but with high tech and high educated people. Go pakistan.:pakistan::pakistan:
 
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I am totally agree with you, so you should tell these to indian gvot and indian media stop compairing china with great india. And I will feel so appreciated for that.
Back to the topic, good artical and congrates pakistan.
Personally, I strongly believe pakistan will one day solve those problem and become a country like japan which is not a big country without huge population and nature resource but with high tech and high educated people. Go pakistan.:pakistan::pakistan:

i wish Pakistan solve is problem its do or die time for Pakistan

its fact India and china are growing power but cant say same word for Pakistan

Pakistan cant grow unless they give importance to democracy not the army

see how many time army capture Pakistani democracy

how much money Pakistan is spending on weapons is not good for the economy of Pakistan
 
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^^^ people dont take kindly when you tell them how to run their house.
 
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I am totally agree with you, so you should tell these to indian gvot and indian media stop compairing china with great india. And I will feel so appreciated for that.
Back to the topic, good artical and congrates pakistan.
Personally, I strongly believe pakistan will one day solve those problem and become a country like japan which is not a big country without huge population and nature resource but with high tech and high educated people. Go pakistan.:pakistan::pakistan:

Twisting my message so it suits your need :no:
 
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There is a big difference between American, Japanese, European economies compared to India....

India is a perfect example of Chinese economy back in 1990's....

Indian economy is thriving because businessmen wants cheaper labour....so instead of producing goods in their homeland they look for stable countries with very cheap labour. Indian economy cannot match the above mentioned economies as they are way behind in R & D.
The same happened in China...
Companies came to manufacture goods but China started to invest money in R & D. Its hard for India because of an international pressures, local problems and democracy. Today's democracy is the biggest hurdle for developing nations to compete with developed nations. In order to knock the American doors one should have a patriotic dictator with capabilities.
Plus India has 1 billion+ population which makes the perfect selling market. So if I am European with money I would like to introduce my products in India as they have huge population...
Indian GDP growth is very high as they are developing whereas U.S. has already achieved what India is doing right now. I think you all know this fact....
If we compare the ratio/percentage between India and China..

India is 80% dependent on foreign investment whereas China is 60%...
In other words India needs foreign investment (hungry monster) whereas Western countries need China because of their investment there...
The X and Y variables switch if we compare China, India with Western countries...

Pakistan on the other hand has not achieved that much...There are many major problems which we are facing...Foreign Investment is not coming in that much...etc....
BUT
We have great potential and we are working on it...

The reason there is a difference between Pakistani and Indian economy is... India is considered a step child by the West whereas Pakistan is considered a servant...


No offence to anyone!
 
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