Commercial misuses of SAAB 2000 by PAF

[jhungary]

Pakistan Army has been renting its assets out for years to climbers.
The issue isnt the use of these assets so much as the funds actually going to the PAF exchequer.

Actually, this practices is quite common in the west, this is called Public Relation.

My friend who was a PR officer very frequently gets call from member of the public (mostly in TV and Movie business) to rent some of the asset in the base out, from renting a rec room to use a tank as a backdrop of a movie. Private or Corporate is few, but did exist, I remember the my base had rented out their field for some company to do their "Trust" exercise.

If the Military did not rent out their equipment, we would not have movie like Top Gun or even Katy Perry's part of me MTV.

On the other hand, the Australian Army is kind enough to loan us a UH-60 Blackhawk for an outing once

Did not get to fly in it because we did not pay the whole $1500......yeah, we are cheap, I know. And meh, had been inside a Blackhawk more than I wanted, not missing a thing even if I don't get to fly in it

Pretty sure the PAF is not the only military arm in the world that engages in this.

Not sure if this is current, but here is an excerpt with respect to the USAF leasing out equipment:

In accordance with Title 10 U.S.C., Section 2667, the Air Force (AF) is authorized to lease certain non-excess property – including aircraft, aircraft-related equipment, and other forms of personal property – to non-Governmental entities (e.g. defense contractors, industry associations) when the Assistant Secretary of the Air Force (Acquisition), as delegated by the Secretary of the Air Force in Headquarters Air Force Mission Directive (HAFMD) 1-10, determines that it is advantageous to do so and can be leased without adversely impacting military readiness.

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/saf_aq/publication/afi64-103/afi64-103.pdf

That happened across the globe, in the US, in the UK and in Australia.

See my post above.

Lmfao!!!!!! I have a good laugh reading that bro. The Haj trips was epic.

Here's another;

Use the unique abilities of the “Karakoram Eagle “airborne early warning aircraft' to monitor the movements of your in-laws as they plot against you.


Anyway seriously this should be explained, I don't understand so I won't comment on the rights and wrongs of it.

lol, you watch Top Gear?

Top Gear (the old one anyway) frequently have segment of the 3 amigos against the British military. Where you can see them racing a Veyron against a Eurofighter, or dodging Apache Gunship or race a Evo 6 against a challenger 2 tank, or driving a Rolls Royce out of the ski-ramp off an aircraft carrier.

But this is probably the best I guess

Jeremy Clarkson : "Look at that; The smoke grenade fits perfectly in the cup holder."

I guess the issue between right an wrong is

1.) How the average Pakistani see their Armed Force.
2.) Where the money goes.

The situation like this could be right and wrong, it mostly depends on how you see it.

 

[GriffinsRule]

@jhungary Thanks for the post above. Its actually pretty common sense but I think the issue that some people are having is similar to the proverb, 'A thief believes everyone else steals too'

Some Pakistanis are quick to make a buck on the side with hook or crook, and thus even legitimate scenarios like PR efforts (as this one clearly is) seems to many as a form of corruption, going into the pockets of some general, and not theirs'.

 

[Armchair]

OR

Pakistanis have experience of repeated robbery by the boys in uniform. And the PAF is widely known as the most corrupt of the three services.

And how is having your chums in the "private members" category going to help you create "a soft image" exactly?

Seems logically like a scheme for creating gravy and curry - named "favor and cronyism". And "lets make a scheme to benefit ourselves".

That's just logical except for the die hards who can't see it any other way than calling the public as thieves. Which is a common trait really in the culture we see that's created. Brown sahibs always look down upon their own people, their moral worth belongs to Macauley.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Cry me a river...

 

[jhungary]

@jhungary Thanks for the post above. Its actually pretty common sense but I think the issue that some people are having is similar to the proverb, 'A thief believes everyone else steals too'

Some Pakistanis are quick to make a buck on the side with hook or crook, and thus even legitimate scenarios like PR efforts (as this one clearly is) seems to many as a form of corruption, going into the pockets of some general, and not theirs'.

Not sure about how you see the soldier and the government in Pakistan, in the west, we see them as civil servant, which is what we paid for exactly.

I mean my tax dollar paid for that Blackhawk you saw in my photo, I deserve to have a ride in it because I paid for it, of course only if OPSEC is maintained. I am not going to barge in an Army base and demand to see the Blackhawk.

That is what government asset is to us, both in America and in Australia. So, they should rent out their resource once in a while to the public, after all, the public is their source of manpower and Public Relation is quite important to our Military

 

[RoadRunner401]

If its not, it should be

No, it shouldn't be. Their job is to defend the country not run real estate or be travel agents.

money is in short supply and critical for the defense establishment

Wrong again, money is in short supply because the Governments have refused to collect taxes.

 

[!eon]

It's not that bad. Bad is when a PAF aircraft brings jahez of daughter of a high ranked officer from Karachi to Mianwali

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

OR

Pakistanis have experience of repeated robbery by the boys in uniform. And the PAF is widely known as the most corrupt of the three services.

And how is having your chums in the "private members" category going to help you create "a soft image" exactly?

Seems logically like a scheme for creating gravy and curry - named "favor and cronyism". And "lets make a scheme to benefit ourselves".

That's just logical except for the die hards who can't see it any other way than calling the public as thieves. Which is a common trait really in the culture we see that's created. Brown sahibs always look down upon their own people, their moral worth belongs to Macauley.

Perhaps one of the ways to address these concerns is to make the information related to ‘renting/loaning’ assets to non military organizations public, with some information on where the funds earned go.

 

[volatile]

Bravo !

 

[blain2]

People here tend to look at things through the lens of black and white. The reality is that there are a multitude of reasons why a Service would do such things.

• This is NOT misappropriation of public resources. It would hold true IF these flights were being conducted in lieu of the ones needed to support national security missions and the government was left holding the bag.
• This is a "pay for" venture that members associated with the PAF take advantage of and extend to their families and friends.
• This is no different than the support that PAA provides to the mountaineering campaigns conducted in the northern areas. Each rescue conducted by the PAA entails the Army being paid for flying sorties in support of the rescue effort.
• Tourism is in its infancy in Pakistan after the last 15 years of instability. All three services are involved in projecting Pakistan in a positive light through the soft prong of the military diplomacy and this means military assets are being used for these purposes. This is being done for the simple reason that tourism projects Pakistan positively, brings in foreign exchange and eventually will open the country to FDI.
• If waste of public resources is such a big concern, why are people okay with the annual affair on March 23? Far more is expended on an inane (from military perspective) exercise than what is being done here (and interested parties are being charged for a sortie that is no more than 1-2 hours).
• If waste of public resources is such a big concern, why are people okay with all the dramas and movies being made which utilize military assets?

 

[GriffinsRule]

Good points @blain2 . Lets not forget PAF has been engaged in PR outside the country as well in recent years to portray an image of the country abroad. Lets not forget our C-130s have Orions have been making many trips to Europe, Australia and the ME with liveries promoting such an image.

 

[ziaulislam]

as long as all details end up with audit general of pakistan we should be fine

 

[khanasifm]

Nothing new paf c-130 were regularly used for chitral flights in the past by pia

Paf is also using these flight to keep crew flight hours current in the type

 

[Windjammer]

Plane crazy! Ministry of Defence blows £10.5billion on military jets it doesn’t need which are used by Thomas Cook and Jet2 to fly TOURISTS to the Med

• Taxpayer money supposed to lease planes to transport troops and refuel jets
• But 3 of those planes were used to fly tourists from the UK on summer holidays
• MoD's deal with manufacturers AirTanker allows the commercial group to make millions more by renting up to four of the unused aircraft to holiday firms

By MARK NICOL FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY

PUBLISHED: 21:59, 21 July 2018 | UPDATED: 02:32, 22 July 2018


Three military jets – part of a fleet costing taxpayers an astonishing £10.5 billion – are being used to fly holidaymakers to sun-kissed resorts because the RAF has no use for them.

The aircraft are supposed to transport British troops to military bases around the world and refuel fighters and bombers in mid-air during combat sorties.

But a Mail on Sunday investigation can reveal that while the cash-strapped Ministry of Defence shells out tens of millions of pounds a year for the planes, holiday firms Thomas Cook and Jet2 have been using them to fly thousands of tourists to Majorca, Tenerife, New York and Florida.

Military service: The jets were meant to be used by the RAF to transport British troops

Prince Harry, right, took this Voyager back to the UK after a tour of Afghanistan in 2013

The aircraft are among 14 Airbus A330s acquired by the MoD under a controversial leasing agreement which costs about £400 million a year
The deal with a consortium of aviation manufacturers called AirTanker allows the commercial group to potentially make millions more by renting up to four of the unused aircraft to holiday firms.

Last week, The Mail on Sunday boarded one of the planes in Manchester and flew with hundreds of tourists on Jet2 package breaks to Tenerife. We also tracked two other RAF planes over the past week as they flew Thomas Cook holidaymakers from Manchester to New York, Seattle, Boston and Orlando.

MoD documents seen by The Mail on Sunday reveal that all three aircraft, which in their military role are called Voyager, remain part of the RAF’s fleet. It is understood they have never been used on operations, although the MoD refused to confirm this last night.

The military jets are supposed to be used to refuel fighters and bombers in mid-air during combat sorties (pictured)

We can also reveal that:

- The MoD is forced to pay more for any of the planes if they fly into war zones because AirTanker does not insure them;

- AirTanker charged £94 million for an aircraft hangar which experts say should have cost much less;

- The Australian Air Force bought the same model of aircraft for tens of millions of pounds less.


READ MORE :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...blows-10-5billion-jets-used-Brits-abroad.html

 

[Hayreddin]

What has been discussed so far in this thread regarding commercial use of military equipment is no doubt reasonable and apprpriate but absolutley not applicable in Pakistan current situation .Paksitan is in state of war . Anyone from this honorable forum givem me one example of a nation in state of war , surrounded with enemies , internally infested by terrorrists , spies , rogue organizations , more than 2000 suicide attacks in a decade , 1lac citizens dead or injured 50 k + including military . Presenting their high tech plane for bloody commercial use .
Why the indian paid n trained terrorrists destroyed saab 2000 when tht equipment was only a threat for their handlers ????
How can u prevent a scenerio of injecting a spying device as small as nano sim during this bloody commercial trips ??? Or even small EMP device making plane a piece of crap when it is in utmost need ..
Do you think a layman like me can figure it out , how on earth PAF is unable to evaluate current situation . This is indeed a criminal negligence or i would say an act of treason by few .